If you could make one thing possible...

Teani

Xenia said:

My recommendation: Join an order and prove yourself wrong in how things are done by being influential enough to create what you want!

Preferably while sticking to whatever tenets the Divine of said order holds to. That's basically what the Deity provides, a foundation to stand on, which can be rocked if they want to rock it.

Xenia

Teani said:

Xenia said:

My recommendation: Join an order and prove yourself wrong in how things are done by being influential enough to create what you want!

Preferably while sticking to whatever tenets the Divine of said order holds to. That's basically what the Deity provides, a foundation to stand on, which can be rocked if they want to rock it.

Sure, but the deity can puts a stop to heretic practices, or at least disassociate the heretic from their order. There's nothing wrong with coloring outside of the lines and RP punishment helping to define what is acceptable RP for that order. Which leads to my earlier point about living in fear of misrepresenting the deity when acting more autonomously and also chasing it anyway because it will provide a clear boundary and also show what is achievable/acceptable.

Tiur

I shall make an Order. The only benefit of Tiur's Order is that I will tell you a few minutes before I start trying to change something in the game.

Kalak

*sigh* I am rubber, you are glue.

Vyxsis

hi everyone, it's your friendly neighborhood bug here to help!

Tiur said:

So... this is a thread that isn't about limits... but I just wanted you confirm, once and for all: If the god is under "Departed", they're gone. Foreeeeeever

@Tiur you told me, not long after vyx went to bloodloch, that it wasn't outside the realm of possibility that Khepri could be brought back if strong, player-driven RP called for it. pls 2 not lie to the bug. the bug will cry. pls tiur. pls.

Kodaza

Agree. Khepri has to come back.

So that we can reassimilate her into Ysmali.

Vyxsis

Kodaza said:

Agree. Khepri has to come back.

So that we can reassimilate her into Ysmali.

you're a lot more evil than i realized o_o;

Rasani

Silena said:

Rasani said:

I don't think it's the fact that Gods interact that makes it hard. It may make it hard for -you- and that's totally chill! but I can think of, like, a dozen things I'd do if I were trying to build a culture around my Goddess. And maybe it does fall on me as her order head, that's totally fair too! And I did, in fact, when we had no Ethne. I gave sermons, I made battle armor. Heck, we even had a tiff with Isoyne (I think? It was a while ago) while we had two order members MAX and no Goddess to lead us. It's small things that, I think, would help the most. Not huge happenings or mysterious cult things. Maybe a pilgrimage is made by followers of Ethne to the forge, maybe it's customary for followers of Slyphe to sit in a spring or something until they get a vision or pass out. It's not hard to inflict a sense of power and otherworldliness, even if that God is interacting and, yes, maybe even helping their city get some coin, because the -average- person isn't interacting with these Gods. Players are but, we have to remember we the players are not the average person in this world.

I feel like I have to address this. Despite how long I've been "around IRE", I think there's been exactly once* that I've had enjoyable interactions with the active God of the order I was in. And he delegated most of the culture-building to his representatives, and spent his visible time spying on and/or scaring the crap out of us. Fun times.

*This is more a reflection of my play-style than a criticism of IRE gods generally, some of whom I know are great, but I've never been in their order.

I say this because often, as a god, I have no idea what players expect, and I'm sure that's a common experience. There's no manual for how to build an order, and asking for advice doesn't always lead to clear-cut answers(#justsayingnotpointingfingers). If I had to base it purely on my own experiences as a player, I wouldn't have a lot to go on.

So there's that... and also the fact that I have 15 hours of classes, all of which are time-consuming and quite possibly the worst possible combination to take together(math and computer science)... which is a way to say that often, even when I have "time", and want to do stuff on Aetolia, it's too exhausting to think of anything to do. Ideas are the hardest part of being creative. Who knew?

Rasani said:

I can think of, like, a dozen things I'd do if I were trying to build a culture around my Goddess.

Complaints aside, this sounds like stuff you should take up with this Ethne person. I know that if someone left me a plate of ideas, I would definitely not zap them for it.

Anyway. If I could make one thing possible... Aetolian sudoku. I know there are ways to do it, but I'm pretty sure my particular vision for it is impossible for mechanical reasons. Sigh.

Oh I'd like to make it clear: I'm not complaining by any means. I've had some INCREDIBLE rp with the new Ethne, really great stuff, and I love it. Gods are BUSY people, and that's not a single thing I'm gonna complain about! I just never know like, how far people in the Order are allowed to take it, you know? Like, I don't know if you're allowed to orgreq something for a God, and I don't want to step on the RP toes of the person PLAYING the God, y'know? I guess by "culture around the Gods' what I really need to know is: what are the players allowed to construct/request themselves and what falls to the God to decide?

Evalyne

Tiur said:

I should make the PRAY pre-mote change based on divine, and other little things. Hm.

In Imperian, there was the ability to make player skills display differently based on the god you served, before they blew them up. Of course that was paired with a config option to display undecorated messages (much like the option regarding ministry positions), but I felt it was a nice bit of flavour.

So for example something like

"Evalyne mutters a prayer to the gods and smites Tiur."

became

"Evalyne mutters a prayer to Varian, the Celestine and smites Tiur."

I can idea that, if you like, Tiur? I think little things like that are a great way to add flourishes to the RP.

As to gods, well, Chakrasul's congregation has a ton of lore, its part of why I love the congregation, it instills in me this real feeling of .. exploration and discovery, for lack of a better word? I think something like Ethne such as @rasani mentions is more of an opprotunity than a problem. Make up some cool stuff! God knows it's how I've got stuff done before. The Rule of Cool is paramount when it comes to that roleplay - as long as it isn't hugely lore-breaking and its pretty cool, chances are the admin will encourage it.

Kodaza

Luminary's bash skill changes based on your congregation affiliation, fyi.

Evalyne

Kodaza said:

Luminary's bash skill changes based on your congregation affiliation, fyi.

But why stop there when I could have an attack that makes people get eaten alive by butterflies?

Aishia

"X will never come back"
"Oh no X's essence was infused into a salmon sandwich which was eaten by X now Y is reborn with the aspect of X and also Y ate a piece of Z who was also dead that someone accidentally left in a jar of taco dip"

Kalak

Xenia said:

@Kalak I've been trying to figure out which gods are at the 'chummy best friend' level. It's hard for me to figure those out and perhaps my interpretation of such differs greatly.

For instance, within Iosyne's order I never get a sense of chumminess from the goddess. If anything the Iosyne character seems to be possessive, bemused, and apathetic towards her order. The majority of activity is fueled by the order, acting autonomously and secretly wondering if they're about to get punnished for taking too much liberty in their goddess' name. In this specific case, considering Pain is one of the paths, it could almost be interpreted as a challenge to push things until you get punished just to SEE where those limits are and what is achievable.

The problems you describe seem less about the system and more about the approach from the player base at large. It sounds like you're saying you want to see more player initiated/supported actions taking place with religion being one of the tools employed to do so. This is something that changes only when you adapt your style of play and make it accessible to a group of people. It's a long game and not for someone who is unwilling to be flexible or wants instant gratification. It's very easy to blame everyone else for not playing the same game and harder to drop the accusations in order to chip away at and reshape the environment to fit your own desire.

My recommendation: Join an order and prove yourself wrong in how things are done by being influential enough to create what you want!

I think it is a bit saddening that you would think what I seek is instant gratification or I am unwilling to be flexible. There is no intention to blame anyone else for not playing the same game either. My only desire is to provide as much as flexibility to several different playstyles in the end. Providing tools, nothing more.

And your recommendation, assumes that we are having organizations full of leaders actively trying to make the game exciting for others. The track record of leaders getting dormant, multiple people filling multiple positions and lack of player-driven "grand-play" really turns everything into a stagnant mess. Aetolia sometimes feels like waiting in line to get your papers processed at a state department. And then you might get told that you should come back tomorrow. You come back tomorrow and then you are directed to another department. This is not on admin mind you. Our admins are doing their best, but the vocal part of playerbase is so clingy to outdated mechanics and ideas of fun, they will make sure deviants to be shot down.

Now about effort? I made a good deal of effort ICly in this game (influencing etc. and whatnot) and faced an overwhelming amount of OOC bullshit from the peers at several places (hence you will not see me in OOC avenues/clans anymore). I admit that Aetolia toppled the "metagaming in playerbase" charts of all time throughout my 10+ MUD experience. That is enough experience to cut the wheat from chaff, mind you. Take a "bravo" from my heart.

Though, I still say my piece here for the record that ONE day such things will be tackled. Maybe I will play the game maybe I will move on. Maybe I will be seen as someone who wants to ruin your game. But I can say this that new players will not be satisfied with obsolete mechanics or feel like enduring the obnoxious treatment of people with stagnant minds.

Zaila

@kalak hey, man, you started this whole diatribe by arguing against someone else's big dream, let people dream in peace! That's what this thread it for, big dreams, not competing opinions or subjective versions of realities!

Take a page from my bro, Sara Bareilles' book

Phoenecia

Evalyne said:

Luminary's bash skill changes based on your congregation affiliation, fyi.

But why stop there when I could have an attack that makes people get eaten alive by butterflies?

Some orders have style scrolls. I did the ones for Slyphe's order, but they're more water-elemented than anything else. >.>

On my wish list of things? More NPC villages with their own unique events/celebrations. 

There's a particular quest in Attica that was added in the past year that I absolutely love where you're essentially helping celebrate a villager's birthday, and said quest manages to help flesh out the villages culture and customs in a small way. 

Can do something similar with other places too and have them season locked or month-locked to reflect what's going on in the village. A farming village would have quests or events activated in the summer/autumn months, etc. I'm a sucker for little details like that.

Tolas

Some orders have style scrolls. I did the ones for Slyphe's order, but they're more water-elemented than anything else. >.>

On my wish list of things? More NPC villages with their own unique events/celebrations. 

There's a particular quest in Attica that was added in the past year that I absolutely love where you're essentially helping celebrate a villager's birthday, and said quest manages to help flesh out the villages culture and customs in a small way. 

Can do something similar with other places too and have them season locked or month-locked to reflect what's going on in the village. A farming village would have quests or events activated in the summer/autumn months, etc. I'm a sucker for little details like that.

I am completely for this too. I love to go poke around villages and zones and find really interesting quest dynamics.

I also wish there was more contestation in some areas. I mean, where a zone could be turned for one or the other as far as alignment goes. Give people something who like to quest and hunt something to do that may or may not also involve some pk.

Xenia

I want to respond to you @Kalak, but I think our mindsets and approach are so different that I don't even know how to bridge the gap. I'm sorry if I offended you, not my intent!