Vampires Theoretical

Rhyot

@Pypo: Copy the line, make a new trigger, set the trigger to exact match and then use this command: deleteLine()

I've already had to do it for myself because I get the same line because Rhyot doesn't have a sire either.

Pypo

thank you a ton @Rhyot that worked like a charm!

Anise

I think more often than not in games like these too much of the onus is placed upon the player and not the overall organization. Incentivize joining a house but the geas should fall upon the primus and house leaders

Trager

Um, hi, @Anise! Forgive my ignorance, but why would that be the better route?

Edit: Expanding, it almost sounds like you're suggesting the Org and Org-Leaders be 'punished' because YOU don't want to partake in the system. There are entirely too many people that consider themselves special snowflakes to bother convincing all of those rogues out there to take Sires. It could go pretty terrible, pretty fast, with the potential for an ungodly amount of demands made by people that really have no place demanding anything.

Sarita

House leaders already have positive incentives to get people to join their House and get sires in it. As a general rule, I think any mechanic that "punishes" org leaders specifically for having rogues is a great way to make good leaders burn out, or potentially good leaders not even bother trying.

Rhyot

To be Sireless is a choice of the player, and in turn, a choice of the character.

Why should Sarita or Trager be punished because Rhyot is too stubborn and proud to take any other Sire other than Satomi? That isn't exactly fair to either character/player, especially the amount of interactions he's had with BOTH people (both IC/OOC) regarding that exact issue. They've performed their due diligence to bring the Plebians and Bloodrogues back into the noble line. It's on the actual player/character to do so.

Second point, the whole Gaes issue is not even a real issue. You get a single line every couple minutes that reminds you "Hey, just to let you know, you're being punished because you don't have a Sire and aren't truly blooded." And even then, its not a real punishment as it only takes away 1% of blood.... 1% of blood that you will regenerate in less than a minute. That's it.

Third point, if Bloodrogues were going to be that serious of an issue, I am more than certain Trager (as Primus) would wage some war against them to either join the line or get out, as would be his right. Though I would assume he'd try to target the influential leaders of the Bloodrogues, who could then convince the other Bloodrogues to stand down. OR the House Leaders could just kick out all the Plebians from their Houses and just be done with it all, because if you are not part of a House, you're not part of the Dominion either, which very well ends any sort of conflict between Blooded and Unblooded.


There is already a bonus to being blooded and being in one of the 5 Houses (good job @Zenobia on making Bouchard a House again). So I don't really see your issue or point to more incentives/punishments, Anise.

Anise

1. I said what I said

2. Take me Anise out of the equation there is a whole lot of back story and history to why Anise doesn't want to be in the dominion ( who ever plays Chak that was not a good response) 

3. Why should the Primus have to work for it because he is the Primus

4. Once I finish my English capstone I will explain the effects the attitude taken by the admin is wholly unhealthy to the game.. I'm not taking any chances I want my degree 

Rhyot

Anise said:

1. I said what I said

2. Take me Anise out of the equation there is a whole lot of back story and history to why Anise doesn't want to be in the dominion ( who ever plays Chak that was not a good response) 

3. Why should the Primus have to work for it because he is the Primus

4. Once I finish my English capstone I will explain the effects the attitude taken by the admin is wholly unhealthy to the game.. I'm not taking any chances I want my degree 

Uh... what??? Can you please explain or articulate your 4 points better, because that sounds like nothing even remotely close to a decent argument/debate.

Satomi

2 points, because I am not sure what you're saying @Anise

1. Punishing the organization because people within it are Unsired is both harmful and cruel, especially if they are already being punished for not having a Sire. If the intent is that they not get punished for having no Sire, but punishing the org because they are unsired, then the org will simply state "Line up or be purged." If they don't line up, like @Rhyot, then the dominion is a lesser place because he'd be forced out.

2. Punishing the organization because people refuse to join it and remain outside the Dominion, unsired, is an even worse idea. You know what griefing is? That is what will happen. If I wanted to troll the Dominion, I'd make 20 vampire characters, get them high enough to be considered Praenomen, and simply refuse to have them Sired. I'd just leave em.

Or the reverse would occur if you make unsired people outside the dominion harm the organization. Yeah. Blood hunts galore, and I would be more than willing to join in and murder them until they joined or quit. Why? Because those people are actively hindering my enjoyment of the game by harming ME just by existing.

What the administration did is the best option they could have. They made the Dominion an attractive option because it is now a player org that anyone could jostle for rank in. They made Sires an attractive choice because, while you can live without (as @Rhyot and @Pypo are proving), it is less onerous to have one. Not all RP should be easy, and denying your connection to the Primus should have consequences (in whatever form that manifests).


tl;dr Admins did good with vamp stuff, I have no idea what @Anise is arguing for.

Edit: Another thing, the reason you want to be a part of the dominion? You get Blood Rank, you get to use the rituals allowed, you get access to the Estates of your House, you get to be in another organization that can foster RP, you're a legit noble(wo)man (whether it is recognized or not).

These are perks for people already into being a Vamp. Not a statement that it makes non-vamps want to be vamps.

RP perks, and mechanical perks. Anything more is just fluff, and I'm sure I either missed stuff, or the administration may add more based off events and feedback.

Sarita

I largely agree with what @Rhyot and @Satomi have said about why things are fair the way they are at the moment.

One thing I would mention as a point of clarity though is that with the Dominion changes, every person with the Praenomen class regardless of House affiliation is a member of the Dominion now. The only way to leave the org is a trip through the volcano.

Anise

So Anise is suffering cause he got the raped please be nice

Koda

wait what

Teani

Anise said:

So Anise is suffering cause he got the raped please be nice

Excuse us, what?

Satomi

I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he means that he presented an idea and got a solid counterargument, and that's his way of jokingly saying "ahh, it burns, be nice."

Also chalking this up to a breakdown in communicating using English, because it is beyond crass to throw that out for something as casual as this. In my opinion.

(I try to reserve my 'humanity is trash' opinion for when I slum in mobas)

Kodaza

As someone with zero involvement in the Dominion and entirely unaffected by any changes to it, buffs or nerfs:

I genuinely do not understand what Anise is trying to communicate, in any of the three posts made so far. The four points especially confuse me the most. (Yes, you said what you said. But I'm still trying to understand what you said in the first place.)

Teani

I am still not quite certain of what you are saying, but I will try to respond to what I've interpreted from the posts.

Rape is a very strong word to use, especially in a game where you have an option to walk out or simply log out if something is happening that you do not agree with. If someone is harassing you in some way, you can also IGNORE them, ending the interactions with that person. You can also ISSUE if this does not help or ask for help and advice at the very least. 

On another note, I don't think anyone can actually force Vampirism onto a character. There are mechanical checks for this, I believe. You,  as a player,  have to make an active choice, meaning you agree to become a Vampire. If you are unhappy with the direction of the RP you have stumbled into, this still doesn't seem to justify that other players should suffer because your character doesn't want to get a Sire, since it is your character's choice. 

If this was not helpful, and if I misunderstood, I'm sorry. 

Tiur

I have taken to deleting incoherent things.

Anise

I was coming from an emotional place because what happened to me physically asa dude and lashed out.... 


with any rpg and rouge the effect of downfall is placed upon the player which creates an uneven and unhealthy environment. It consolidates power at the top which does not make the top create an environment in which is inclusive 

Teani

The Admin has for a very long time put a lot of emphasis on the advantages of being -part- of something, rather than standing outside. Naturally, this means that there will be less perks for those who choose to be rogues. It is still possible to play a rogue. No one is stopping you. However, the organizations you do not want to join, should not have to suffer because you do not want to join. The Vampire side of this game has always been about hierarchy, where the top is powerful, and the bottom is not. The whole system has been based off of bloodrank, depending on sires.

From what I can see, from an outsider's perspective, it seems like these changes have consolidated the Admin's views on inclusiveness being better, and that Vampirism is still tied very much to hierarchy. Blood matters. This doesn't mean that new players can't get ahead in life though. As is stated in the posts above, even Sires have to work to keep their place.

@Anise, if you were upset by something in the game, then perhaps try to speak to the people who were involved? Lashing out on a board like this, in a non-coherent way, will most likely not get you anywhere. If you need a mediator, because you are still feeling emotionally stressed, feel free to reach out to me in a PM or a message. Alright?

Satomi

It should also be noted that Vampires are always a part of the Dominion now. There is no such thing as a Rogue Vampire, because they are still recognized in the Dominion. It's just that now, everyone knows which Vamps are Rogue on DWHO instead of having to guess blood rank.

Also, Vampirism in every aspect of lore, that I've seen, has always been a Pyramid Scheme. The vampire above you is always more powerful in the Blood. Even if you aren't part of the current 'Coven', your blood had to come from somewhere, so in a way you're still tied to the Source despite your desire to reject a Sire.

Basically put, Vampires are massively inclusive, it's just a matter of participating and accepting the trade-off, which is a Sire and House.