Susceptible To X is Underwhelming

Kalak

I will not be able to post for classleads, hence decided to raise this issue here for the time being. As you read the below log, you will notice that staffcasting provides the promised debuff but that debuff is absolutely useless. The damage difference was a mere 11 points...which is extremely underwhelming. The below log is the conducted test with @Tekias on magic damage. Then we tried on electric damage as well and the difference was again a mere 11 points.

Tekias points an air-infused crystalline voidstaff at you, and a stream of bile-like acid streams out, covering you with agonizing, burning acid.
Health Lost: 1057, magic, magical
You are afflicted with magic_weakness.
H:2511 M:4252 [c eb]
[FirstAid]: sip health
You take a drink of an elixir of health from a plain wooden vial.
Health Gain: 611
The elixir heals and soothes you.
H:3122 M:4252 [c eb]
audit
+-- Resistances ------------------------+-- Avoidance -------------------------+
Cutting | 14% 0% 28% 26% Dodge Chance | 4% 7%
Blunt | 34% 0% 14% 39% Divert Chance | 0% 0%
Magic | 10% 0% 0% 9% Divert Block | 0% 0%
Fire | 20% 5% 0% 24% +-- Miscellaneous ---------------------+
Cold | 30% 0% 0% 30% Experience Bonus | 105%
Electric | 10% 0% 0% 10% Crit. Chance | 18.26%
Poison | 10% 2% 0% 12% Celerity | 2 r/ps
Psychic | 0% 0% 0% 0% Health Drain | 0
Asphyxiation | 0% 2% 0% 2% Mana Drain | 0
Spirit | 0% 0% 0% 0% Willpower Drain | 0
Shadow | 10% 0% 0% 10% Endurance Drain | 0
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Resistances: Defences, Miniskills, Armour
Avoidance: PvP, PvE
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
H:3122 M:4252 [c eb]
audit
+-- Resistances ------------------------+-- Avoidance -------------------------+
Cutting | 14% 0% 28% 26% Dodge Chance | 4% 7%
Blunt | 34% 0% 14% 39% Divert Chance | 0% 0%
Magic | 10% 0% 0% 9% Divert Block | 0% 0%
Fire | 20% 5% 0% 24% +-- Miscellaneous ---------------------+
Cold | 30% 0% 0% 30% Experience Bonus | 105%
Electric | 10% 0% 0% 10% Crit. Chance | 18.26%
Poison | 10% 2% 0% 12% Celerity | 2 r/ps
Psychic | 0% 0% 0% 0% Health Drain | 0
Asphyxiation | 0% 2% 0% 2% Mana Drain | 0
Spirit | 0% 0% 0% 0% Willpower Drain | 0
Shadow | 10% 0% 0% 10% Endurance Drain | 0
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Resistances: Defences, Miniskills, Armour
Avoidance: PvP, PvE
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
H:3122 M:4252 [c eb]
Tekias points an air-infused crystalline voidstaff at you, and a stream of bile-like acid streams out, covering you with agonizing, burning acid.
Health Lost: 1068, magic, magical
H:2054 M:4252 [c eb]
Tekias takes a drink from a plain wooden vial.
H:2054 M:4252 [c eb]
You may drink another health or mana elixir.
H:2054 M:4252 [c eb]
[FirstAid]: sip health
You take a drink of an elixir of health from a plain wooden vial.
Health Gain: 566
The elixir heals and soothes you.
H:2620 M:4252 [c eb]
Health Gain: 193
H:2813 M:4252 [c eb]
audit
+-- Resistances ------------------------+-- Avoidance -------------------------+
Cutting | 14% 0% 28% 26% Dodge Chance | 4% 7%
Blunt | 34% 0% 14% 39% Divert Chance | 0% 0%
Magic | 10% 0% 0% 9% Divert Block | 0% 0%
Fire | 20% 5% 0% 24% +-- Miscellaneous ---------------------+
Cold | 30% 0% 0% 30% Experience Bonus | 105%
Electric | 10% 0% 0% 10% Crit. Chance | 18.26%
Poison | 10% 2% 0% 12% Celerity | 2 r/ps
Psychic | 0% 0% 0% 0% Health Drain | 0
Asphyxiation | 0% 2% 0% 2% Mana Drain | 0
Spirit | 0% 0% 0% 0% Willpower Drain | 0
Shadow | 10% 0% 0% 10% Endurance Drain | 0
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Resistances: Defences, Miniskills, Armour
Avoidance: PvP, PvE
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
H:2813 M:4252 [c eb]
Tekias points an air-infused crystalline voidstaff at you, and a stream of bile-like acid streams out, covering you with agonizing, burning acid.
Health Lost: 1068, magic, magical
[FirstAid]: outc anabiotic
You remove 1 anabiotic, bringing the total in the cache to 111.
[FirstAid]: eat anabiotic
You swallow an anabiotic pill.
You feel your health and mana replenished.
Health Gain: 320
H:2065 M:4252 [c eb]
You may drink another health or mana elixir.
H:2065 M:4252 [c eb]
audit

[FirstAid]: sip health
You take a drink of an elixir of health from a plain wooden vial.
Health Gain: 606
The elixir heals and soothes you.
+-- Resistances ------------------------+-- Avoidance -------------------------+
Cutting | 14% 0% 28% 26% Dodge Chance | 4% 7%
Blunt | 34% 0% 14% 39% Divert Chance | 0% 0%
Magic | 10% 0% 0% 9% Divert Block | 0% 0%
Fire | 20% 5% 0% 24% +-- Miscellaneous ---------------------+
Cold | 30% 0% 0% 30% Experience Bonus | 105%
Electric | 10% 0% 0% 10% Crit. Chance | 18.26%
Poison | 10% 2% 0% 12% Celerity | 2 r/ps
Psychic | 0% 0% 0% 0% Health Drain | 0
Asphyxiation | 0% 2% 0% 2% Mana Drain | 0
Spirit | 0% 0% 0% 0% Willpower Drain | 0
Shadow | 10% 0% 0% 10% Endurance Drain | 0
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Resistances: Defences, Miniskills, Armour
Avoidance: PvP, PvE
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
H:2671 M:4252 [c eb]
Tekias points an air-infused crystalline voidstaff at you, and a stream of bile-like acid streams out, covering you with agonizing, burning acid.
Health Lost: 1068, magic, magical
H:1603 M:4252 [c eb]
diag
You are:
susceptible to magical damage.
Equilibrium Used: 0.75 seconds
H:1603 M:4252 [c -b]
You have recovered equilibrium.
H:1603 M:4252 [c eb]
You can swallow another anabiotic pill.
H:1603 M:4252 [c eb]
audit

[FirstAid]: outc anabiotic
You remove 1 anabiotic, bringing the total in the cache to 110.
[FirstAid]: eat anabiotic
You swallow an anabiotic pill.
You feel your health and mana replenished.
Health Gain: 320
+-- Resistances ------------------------+-- Avoidance -------------------------+
Cutting | 14% 0% 28% 26% Dodge Chance | 4% 7%
Blunt | 34% 0% 14% 39% Divert Chance | 0% 0%
Magic | 10% 0% 0% 9% Divert Block | 0% 0%
Fire | 20% 5% 0% 24% +-- Miscellaneous ---------------------+
Cold | 30% 0% 0% 30% Experience Bonus | 105%
Electric | 10% 0% 0% 10% Crit. Chance | 18.26%
Poison | 10% 2% 0% 12% Celerity | 2 r/ps
Psychic | 0% 0% 0% 0% Health Drain | 0
Asphyxiation | 0% 2% 0% 2% Mana Drain | 0
Spirit | 0% 0% 0% 0% Willpower Drain | 0
Shadow | 10% 0% 0% 10% Endurance Drain | 0
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Resistances: Defences, Miniskills, Armour
Avoidance: PvP, PvE
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
H:1923 M:4252 [c eb]
You may drink another health or mana elixir.
H:1923 M:4252 [c eb]
[FirstAid]: sip health
You take a drink of an elixir of health from a plain wooden vial.
Health Gain: 594
The elixir heals and soothes you.
H:2517 M:4252 [c eb]
Health Gain: 193
H:2710 M:4252 [c eb]
(Web): Tekias says, "Ok, four times."

Keroc

The reason why it seems so small is because the elemental weakness affliction will reduce their total resistance by a percentage and not a flat amount. So the higher the target's resistance is, the more will be reduced. The elemental brands also increase the potency of the weakness somewhat dramatically.

Bit of bad luck there, had you been hit with cold or fire you'd have noticed a bigger difference.

Kalak

Keroc said:

The reason why it seems so small is because the elemental weakness affliction will reduce their total resistance by a percentage and not a flat amount. So the higher the target's resistance is, the more will be reduced. The elemental brands also increase the potency of the weakness somewhat dramatically.

Bit of bad luck there, had you been hit with cold or fire you'd have noticed a bigger difference.

Well, I have not tested with brands so I cannot comment on that dramatical increase, though if someone is capable of branding they would go for Fluxus instead of staffcast, no? Regardless on your advice I tested with cold damage and it dropped from 30% resistance to 27% resistance. That 3% does not seem to make me susceptible. I was expecting that it would create a damage opening similar to Sensitivity but for that damage type.

Perhaps I am putting too much faith in the word "susceptibility"

Tenshyo

@Keroc himself is Aetolia's PvP Balance guy. Whom works closely with the Pkers of the game and exhaustively works through the system day in and day out.

Having 30% Lightning audit myself, a Stormtouched aff for example will blow my doors off.
47% Magic Audit I am willing to be would be something like 6% at the least in, and maybe 12% or so at the most if I was hit with the same thing.

As Keroc said, the bigger the audit, the bigger decrease.

Considering 3 is 10% of 30, consider that 10% is relatively huge as the numbers get higher, thus dramatically increasing the damage taken.

Sensitivity on top of Stormtouched, again for further example, you'll see the explosive damage.
(Shaman's hurt. Hurt a lot.)

Eliadon

Basicallllllllllllllly the problem is compound, here.

You also make a poor assumption about brands: if we can get mist/windbrand and ember/stonebrand off, that does NOT guarantee that we will get spirit/shadowbrand off. Spirit/Shadowbrand is consistently the most difficult to accomplish, and you will rarely see people die to myself or Emir due to Spiritrend or Fluxus.

As previously mentioned, you have itty bitty magic resistance, and you have itty bitty cold resistance, but you also have itty bitty hp. Lower hp = lower scaling portion of staffcast damage, but it does take a big chunk out of your hp in the first place. All of these make the magic reduction decrease seem insignificant, but consider the following:

I have 5915 health.

So, I normally staffcast for 1234 damage on myself (this is not a joke, it actually is 1234), or approximately 20.86% of my hp.
I have 43% electric resistance.
So, with no brands, and electric weakness, I have 39% electric resistance, bringing my damage up to 1297, or 21.9% of my hp.

This is a 1% of my hp increase, which adds up quite a bit over time.

But how about something that hits harder than staffcast?

Arcblaze does a whopping 1602 damage on me without electric weakness, or approximately 27% of my hp.
Add in electric weakness, and it does 1684 damage, or 28.5% of my hp.

This is a 1.5% of my hp increase, which is quite substantial.

How about with one brand?
Emberbrand makes electric_weakness decrease my electric resistance to 34%, leaving staffcast at 1378 damage per, or approximately 23.3% of my hp. That is a 2.4~% increase over no weakness, and a total of 144 damage increase on individual staffcasts.
For arcblaze, it increases my damage to 1789, or 30.2% of my hp. This is a ~3.2% increase in hp% damage over base arcblaze.

To make sure it is the same, I tested with just mistbrand, for a total of 1378 staffcast and 1789 damage arcblaze

So, I then checked with both emberbrand and mistbrand: 1462 staffcast, 1897 arcblaze.

Ah why the heck not: I could simply soulrend with sensitivity, but how about all three: 1547 staffcast, 2009 arcblaze.

So, let's build a bit of a table:

	Staffcast Damage	Staffcast DPS	Arcblaze Damage	Arcblaze DPS
Base	1234	358.7	1602	372.56
EW	1297	377	1684	391.63
EW+1	1378	400.6	1789	416
EW+2	1462	425	1897	441
EW+3	1547	449.7	2009	467.21

	Staffcast %hp	Arcblaze %hp
Base	20.86	27
EW	21.9	28.5
EW+1	23.3	30.2
EW+2	24.7	32
EW+3	26.15	33.9

The real story here is in the damage per second increase. As you can see, it is -quite- substantial even with the two brands you will normally be able to get.



You also mentioned simply using Fluxus or Soulrend, but there is a fancy problem with that, that this weakness buff helps to solve:

5915[100%], 4258[61%], 127%, 98% ebscsdb B: 0 06:787 qhspftram [M+138] [P]cast soulrend me
Health Lost: 300
*** USED - ELEMANCY SOULREND: you ***
You have cured mistbrand.
You have cured emberbrand.
You have cured spiritbrand.
Equilibrium Used: 3.44 seconds
Health Lost: 1201, cold, magical
Health Lost: 1201, fire, magical
Health Lost: 1746, spirit, magical
1467[25%], 3258[47%], 127%, 97% -bscsdb B: 0 08:991 qhspftram [H-1746M-1000] [P]

That's tragic! So how about fixing it?


*** USED - ELEMANCY STAFFCAST HORRIPILATION: you ***
Health Lost: 1008, cold, magical
-> Sip, back to 5915 hp. ->
[YAAS]: AFF: coldW
Equilibrium Used: 3.44 seconds
Health Lost: 300
*** USED - ELEMANCY SOULREND: you ***
You have cured mistbrand.
You have cured emberbrand.
You have cured spiritbrand.
Equilibrium Used: 3.44 seconds
Health Lost: 1641, cold, magical
Health Lost: 1201, fire, magical
Health Lost: 1746, spirit, magical
1027[17%], 3035[44%], 127%, 99% -bscsdb B: 0 28:896 qhspftram [H-1746M-1000] [P]

A 440 damage increase for staffcasting beforehand! Quite good, I would say.

Tenshyo

@Eliadon dropping the numbers.
Resident Mage-noggin.

Kalak

@Eliadon Thanks for crunching the numbers, definitely appreciated!