The Dourif Judge (c) 2.0

Draiman

How does a vampire fight vs. 4 aff reclamation behind blackout?

Here are the options I have discovered:

Every time I'm hit with boosted overload, I sear whatever icewall there is, and leave, getting into the stupidest game of tag ever. Leaving the room resets the fight. Attrition is fine until it becomes something tedious and stupid like that, until it becomes the only way to win a fight.

Play a game of chance with Elder Shaman, Rhythm, and Tranquility, and dwhisper Epilepsy/Berserking. If Rhythm is up, berserking was a dead whisper. Epilepsy has to bypass the resist. That 8% chance to fail is too much for something like this. We're not talking about a lock attempt or building momentum, we're talking about them killing me when I'm unhindered. If it goes through, there's still Tranquility. Again, I'm fine with rolling the dice on shit like dodge, but when it comes down to killing me after hardly no set up, you can shove those dice up your ass.

Buy more artifacts so he doesn't get me into 6s reclamation territory + the unstoppable shit in 30s. This is not an acceptable solution.

Roll over and die! - Also not an acceptable solution.

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Any help/tips would be greatly appreciated.

Drestyn

I'd say wait for classleads, but that's not a surefire way to fix your situation of still possibly having to deal with the ridiculousness that is Shaman. Then again, I'm a shit-tier fighter, what do I know?

Aishia

I mean to be fair you have at least 4-5 affs, shaman NEVER really has you "hindered" and I DID SHARE SOME counters with you in private but they were very lame as you know >_>. It does maybe sound like he's managing to cut a few corners. I always hate that sometimes nerfing the really cheap ways of doing things breaks the more elaborate ways which were probably the intended ways of doing them.

Serrice

How do you not instantly lock someone doing that? It's not like he's curing anything, and asthma's the only thing you need.

Illikaal

Serrice said:

How do you not instantly lock someone doing that? It's not like he's curing anything, and asthma's the only thing you need.

.

Draiman

4 aff reclamation will continue even if locked. Post lock ttk for vampires is fucking abysmal though. Even Phreneses wouldn't be able to kill the shaman after the lock, or even if they rushed straight into feast.

Tedrunai

6s + unstoppable you're pretty much out of luck. Accept your leafy fate.

12s + unstoppable under blackout you have to be timing their cures so you know they're channeling before they get to the second message. Throw out a quick lock then get out of the room ASAP. Which is admittedly a lot harder for vampires now that Fade has been neutered with the movement changes. Best bet is probably to keep topped off on ylem before every fight so you can use Combustion to get clutch icewall destruction when you need it. Shamans will singlehandedly create the ylem receptacle market. Important to note that Reclamation will NOT STOP just because you left the room, it only fails when it ticks and you're not there. So whatever you do, don't go back into the room after getting out. Just Lure them out or something.

All that said Shamans are a Praenomen hardcounter. Elder Shaman proccing on 2/3 of your aff output, Rhythm Oath disabling berserking (which is a Praenomen's one and only answer to rebounding). Theoretically it shouldn't be possible for a Shaman to lose to a Praenomen since if they got pressured at any point they could simply stop attacking and sit behind rebounding. The Elder Shaman problem sorta balances itself out in that Praenomen are the easiest confusion-stacking class so each is potent at slowing down the other, Rhythm is just unbeatable however.

Fix plz @Keroc you are the only hope. Rhythm exists to allow the Shaman to feasibly get off unstoppable Reclamation but it's totally destroying this matchup. If it's at all possible to make Rhythm instead have Reclamation ignore berserking ticks only if the Shaman is channeling it that would be the best thing ever. Aff immunity just shouldn't exist when it is a core aff of a class.

Aishia

Yeah doesn't really play out like that in most fights, seems like most (Good) pranomen now just manage to venom lock me before I can do much of anything, but I haven't really been trying to rush reclamation or whatever in the exact way Kheoss does.

Aishia

But ya realistically the real problem in that whole situation is "why don't vampires have raze"

Valingar

Tedrunai said:

6s + unstoppable you're pretty much out of luck. Accept your leafy fate.

@Tedrunai: If you have 4+ mentals and are below half health and get hit by blackout, you shouldn't be sticking around to see if they're reclaiming you or not. That's when you bail, same as you would for any other class you meet kill conditions for. If you've gotten yourself icewalled completely in for some reason and get hit by Overload while below half health, tumble. It's still faster than reclamation is. 6 seconds is a quite a bit of time to get out of the room.

Tedrunai said:

Rhythm Oath disabling berserking (which is a Praenomen's one and only answer to rebounding).

This part I agree is a complete pain in the ass for Prae, though, since their rebounding strip relies on being able to use berserking.

Tedrunai

@Valingar I'm not making an argument that it's unfair (in case you're interpreting it that way). If they've met both conditions you -should- be dying most of the time. Fair point though, there are things you can do to survive.

Valingar

Yeah, I wasn't trying imply you did. My point was mostly that any time I die to Reclamation, I can instantly think of ten things I could've done to avoid being at that spot and curl up in shame. Not to say I don't get noobchecked sometimes, though.

Draiman

@Aishia not sure if you're calling me bad or

@Valinga if I tumble then I lose the long game as Praenomen. This is the only class I have problems with this as. Ted had a good idea about combustion though, I had completely forgotten it exists. 

Valingar

Do you mean because of blood costs?

Draiman

Yeah nevermind. Forgot about thirst change. 

Valingar

Oh yeah, those happened. I forgot them too.

Serrice

.

Fezzix

@Draiman it's your own fault for showing Kheoss the blackout/reclamation combo. You created a monster.

Draiman

Ohhhh no. This? This is a combo he's known since before I even started pking again. What I showed him is the wombo combo from hell, and I'm pretty sure he's forgotten it.

Valingar

What is the wombo combo from hell? Scientific interest.