Anonymous Esteem

Nia

Could we have a change to esteem to allow it to be given anonymously? Coming from Midkemia, I assumed that was automatically the case and dropped a bunch on some people — then I received one in return and suddenly realised it wasn't. Whoops!

I think compliments tend to mean more if you don't know who they're coming from. If you do, they can be taken as a system of barter or social influence, whereby people may feel compelled to esteem people they know or have been given esteem from prior. Sort of like when you go to a party and someone says, 'I love your shoes!' but they're wearing freaking Crocs and then you don't know what to say, but you have to say something, right? It could also cause esteem to be interpreted, or even intended, as a means of sucking up to a person.

Some people probably feel like they need to know who it comes from — but others don't. That's fair, which is why I propose that rather than having a blanket system where it's always anonymous (though I personally think that would be even better), it be configurable to allow people the option of giving it anonymously, or even the option of only receiving it anonymously.

That said, making it anonymous for all would still allow people to append their name at the end if they so please, or send someone a tell saying, 'P.S., that esteem was from me, wink wink' — in MKO, people did this all the time.

Thanks in advance for consideration!


P.S.: To the people I have esteemed, or will esteem in future (because I've made a list) — I had no idea it wasn't a secret until just now. I swear I wasn't trying to suck up!

Zaila

I feel like I get your point there - no one wants to feel like they're being unduly solicited for compliments. That said, from a "person who occasionally gets esteemed" perspective, I find it super useful to know who its coming from, cause it means "I did good there" or "Even though you're being a unicorns to my character, I am enjoying it on a personal level, don't think you need to run away from me" - although I realize you could certainly add your identity to the esteem as you mentioned.

I would GUESS that the reason it is not anonymous is so that it does not become abused for people writing horrible, negative things to you without having to put their name onto it.

I can certainly see the potential benefit of anonymity, though. It would make constructive criticism easier to actually give in an esteem.

Nia

Zaila said:

I would GUESS that the reason it is not anonymous is so that it does not become abused for people writing horrible, negative things to you without having to put their name onto it.

I can certainly see the potential benefit of anonymity, though. It would make constructive criticism easier to actually give in an esteem.

Well... It gives XP, so if someone wants to write you something horrible and negative anonymously, they're giving you free XP. For which I, personally, would thank them and laugh at them.

I had assumed though that the purpose of esteem was explicitly and exclusively only for saying nice things. I'm not personally averse to a negative feedback system existing, and would actually find that more useful than just being given compliments, but I don't offer it to others unless they ask, and wouldn't do so using esteem given I think that's abusing it for something other than its intended purpose. Am I wrong? Also, do people ever actually do that? (Use esteem for criticism, asinine or otherwise, that is.)

I know that on MKO, staff would receive daily logs (similar to player access to city/guild logs), and also an immediate notification, which allowed them to see esteem any time someone gave it. For players it was anonymous, but Gods could see names. If people abused esteem, either to give their buddies free XP for no reason or to be a dick to someone anonymously, they could see it. They could then punish people for abusing the system and redact the esteem rewards given. e.g.: When the system was first released over there, everyone went a little crazy faffing around with it and one person did esteem me for having very nice teeth. I don't know if that's the same in Aetolia, but I'm sure it would be very easy for staff to code in, and let players know that they monitor it, so that no one is tempted to abuse.

Zsadist

Honestly, I think the whole esteem system is unnecessary. If you enjoyed a good RP with someone, you're highly likely to RP with them again. If you didn't like the RP with someone, you're probably not going to RP with them again.

All esteem is, in my opinion, a stroking of someone's epeen to inflate their ego. "Omgurd, you RP gud. Lets do moar!" is about what esteem equates to. Now, I've never esteemed someone nor recieved esteem because I'm not a huge roleplayer (plus I've been told Z comes off as nonchalant and hollow, but w/e), but does it really matter whether or not you esteem someone? I mean, for all intents and purposes... that's what the Love thread, Thank You thread, and Roleplay thread in the forums is for.... right?

Realistically though, I think it being anonymous or even named is kind of a moot point, especially with such a small playerbase.

Buford

Zsadist said:

that's what the Love thread, Thank You thread, and Roleplay thread in the forums is for.... right?

While not necessarily weighing in on either side of this debate, I do want to point out that we can't operate (in general) on the assumption that every player visits the forums.

Nia

Gonna just respond to this part of your post, @Zsadist:

Zsadist said:

Honestly, I think the whole esteem system is unnecessary. If you enjoyed a good RP with someone, you're highly likely to RP with them again. If you didn't like the RP with someone, you're probably not going to RP with them again.

All esteem is, in my opinion, a stroking of someone's epeen to inflate their ego. "Omgurd, you RP gud. Lets do moar!" is about what esteem equates to. Now, I've never esteemed someone nor recieved esteem because I'm not a huge roleplayer (plus I've been told Z comes off as nonchalant and hollow, but w/e), but does it really matter whether or not you esteem someone? I mean, for all intents and purposes... that's what the Love thread, Thank You thread, and Roleplay thread in the forums is for.... right?

Yep, I think it does!

Positive reinforcement is important to help foster a good community. For me, a good community is, among other things, one where people absolutely love to RP, and receive encouragement for doing so. Bashing gets you the reward of XP, PK gets you the reward of... whatever PK rewards you with here, but the major reward of roleplay is knowing you entertained other people. It's a performance art, and one that a roleplaying community should want to encourage more of, which is why that reward matters. I want people who entertain me to receive the applause they deserve, so they remain encouraged to keep doing whatever it is they're doing right — being inclusive, considerate, responsive, etc.

Public thank yous and loves on the forums are nice, but they are public, and frequently will just involve people sucking up, name-dropping, establishing their cliques, etc. (Note — not accusing the community of being cliquey, nor saying these things are inherently bad, it's just normal human behaviour I've seen in every roleplay community I've ever been a part of.) Often on public threads, rather than praise specific individuals who really deserve it, people will name absolutely everyone to avoid making anyone feel left out. Direct, private compliments, especially if they are anonymous, serve a very different purpose, and tend to be more honest.

Plus, it gets you XP. I think it's nice that people can get XP by impressing others with their RP, as opposed to just through PvE and PvP.

Zsadist

Idk... I think the fact that most people tend to RP with the same people repeatedly -because- they like the RP that was done is reward in itself. But hey, take my opinion with a grain of salt.

It doesn't hurt anyone to have it known who you esteemed, nor does it hurt anyone to have it anonymous. In the end, you'll still RP with the same people you RP'd with last week, last month, last year. They might have different names (alts), but they're the same person and same RP style... just different stories.

Xenia

@Zsadist
Hey, interesting points made on the esteems. I never thought of them that way. While you and I speak freely, OOC rather frequently, this is not my tendency with most people. Primarily because I want to create the most IC experience possible for myself. The few times I've sent or received esteems have been when I/a player deeply wished to convey something positive about the interaction/character that otherwise is not discussed.

It'd always been my assumption that most other people use the mechanic this way.

Tedrunai

Esteem is definitely something nice to receive, especially for budding RPers who may be hesitant to get their toes wet. As with trying anything new it can be a daunting, self-conscious experience. Receiving a nice little piece of esteem affirming that you're on the right track is amazing when you're feeling unsure of your own abilities. It's nice for veterans too, validation is inherently something pleasant.

I used to send out esteems to people I RPed with. Very rarely got them back. This is why I like to play Yasmar, so I can flame all you little buggers to my heart's desire. REVENGE OF THE POOLS! >:)

Shachalai

@Zsadist -

Flipping your logic on its head-

Honestly, I think XP for PK is unnecessary. If you enjoyed fighting them, you'll fight them again. If not, you won't. All PK is e-peen stroking. "Omg! I fight and code better than this person! Let's kill them again!"

Silliness aside - different people play the game for different reasons, and giving them mechanical reasons to interface with its dimensions, if done right, is not bad. We're RP-encouraged, and I don't see any reason not to incentivize playing a role well, even if it's not what you play the game for.

Esteem is something I use rarely, as a rule, but if someone surprises me, or I see them making a clear effort, I'll be inclined to use it.

Zsadist

I'm not saying lets remove the esteem system. The admins took the time to put it in, so its there to give roleplayers a little pat on the back for a job well done with emote throwing. I understand we all play the game differently to everyone, to what we enjoy most, or what our goals are. While I think it unnecessary, I get why its used.

What I don't understand is the OPs desire to mask your esteem. I mean, Im sure anyone under @Xenia's command enjoys seeing that an esteem hit, "Oh shit! Xenia esteemed me because I played a super awesome Carnifex knighting!" This incentivizes a player to seek out Xenia for more. If it was anonymous, then people could just go "Oh cool, look at this anonymous esteem." And if all people do anyway is "Hey, that esteem was from me"... completely defeats any reason for anonymity, right? 

Synne

-wonders if she's the only one who didn't know that 'esteem' was a thing-