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EDIT: to be perfectly clear I am not even remotely trying to stop/punish people for AFK-ing. I just don't want to be the idiot who tries to talk to them and then twiddles my thumbs wondering if they are actually AFK or thinking "haha, Jules, screw her. She probably just wants to talk about her tinfoil hat collection"
Anyway, I'd just turn that flag on permanently regardless on whether I'm actually there or not. Easier than dealing with the inevitable flood of complaints about how I didn't reply to someone despite not being idle-flagged.
Many of the things that people currently do to keep from being logged off could probably still serve to keep you from being logged off, but a lot of them wouldn't make you not "idle". That seems better than super generous timeouts, or indefinite ones, just because your char could end up in limbo uh, indefinitely if you do DC.
Someone -could- still override the flag and make themselves look "active" all the time, and that is fine, whatever. Go for it. The flag still serves its purpose regardless of what you do. Because the flag has one purpose, and one purpose only, and that purpose is to convey "I am probably not actually here right now" or "I AM probably right here now, and if I don't answer, there's an awfully good chance I just don't want to talk to you".
It is not an attempt to modify YOUR behavior in any way. It is purely to help the guy talking to you make a quicker assessment about whether that is actually worth his time - and actually, whether he might be truly bothering you. This kind of works both ways. At the more extreme end of the scale, it also makes it harder to play dumb if I am truly harassing you.
I just don't think it's that bad. And like Ilyon said, it's a slippery slope. It's already been suggested that you lose comms, lose comms in Havens, or that afking be made against the rules. I can't stress enough that these are bad ideas.
I don't think we're threatening to quit for being made gray, @draiman. That's not an accurate assessment.
Some of the other comments are the more classic, "punitive" approach, yes. And that is why I like the gray thing.
That means a smaller who list. It means less people around to respond to events. It means I'm less invested because when I log on and hear about this thing that's happening, it's not nearly as interesting as it would be if I were involved from the beginning. It means people are going to gradually have less and less reason to log on. Less and less interest.
To clarify, I don't really feel that emphatic one way or the other on the gray thing. I don't personally feel like it's going to change all that much and so, is probably not worth having the paid staff code over other things.
What I'm talking about are the more restrictive things I mentioned above, which inevitably get thrown out every time this discussion comes up.
The only difference is that the poor schmuck who just tried to talk to you (not necessarily YOU, but to someone) doesn't have to twiddle his thumbs wondering if you are AFK or just ignoring the hell out of him.
EDIT: I think the slippery slope thing doesn't fly here. I mean, people can throw those more punitive things out there, but the reality is that a lot of IRE's players are in their prime working years (thank god, some of them were fucking insufferable when they were teenagers with seemingly unlimited time) and I think people get that there needs to be some wiggle room for people to play as they are able. But the point of the gray thing is actually that it DOES make very little difference to the idler. It is purely to help the person who might interact with him. Although really, most idlers actually benefit too, for reasons I covered in other posts.
And I mean, I've had to repeat several times that the flag isn't player activated, for example.
EDIT: we can talk about this all we want, but I feel like now would be a nice time for admin to give some kind of read on whether they'd ever consider doing it. Please?
I'm not suggesting people be punished for idling or that we have a zero-tolerance policy for it -- stuff does happen. But, having played other games that have a similar mechanic, I feel it really helped the playerbase, as well as created a culture where it was generally expected that you were at your keyboard most of the time.
Overall, this is a question of game culture. Instead of waiting around for something to happen, you either invest and find/create something or you log off. Simple.
ETA: I think said culture is good for the game and for players, too, because you don't get people logging in and half-assing it out of a feeling of obligation or something. It can help head off burnout and make people really be selective about how they're going to spend their time IG (and OOG, too).
"The smell of dusty fur, sweet smoke, waiting and patience, a thing that time cannot kill. The moth that candles won't burn."
The graying feature is nice, but unrealistic to player retention. Nobody new wants to play a game where pretty much every other person is idle/afk and if you can visibily SEE that, then it just makes it clearer how dead the game truly is. We get everyone hates being ignored, but that's what MESSAGES are for.... or patience.
The graying of names does nothing more for the game now, than not graying names does. All it is, would be an 'ease of life' thing for people who are impatient and don't want to wait to talk to someone and want everything RIGHT NOW.
Edit:
I just want to make it clear that admin are already starting events thinking people are around when they're not, which is leading to all of two people responding to said event. Like it or not, admin aren't checking if everyone's actually present before starting an event and the false, inflated numbers are leading them to believe they'll get a response currently. If we had something to denote AFK or even more accurate lists of people logged on and engaged, this wouldn't happen and events would start when more people are present. I'm not entirely sure how coming into the middle of the event dampers the fun, when it can easily be found out later through RP.
Frankly, as Emelle's hinted at, I think some of you need to better prioritize your time in the game and what defines fun for you.
Because in the end, that's all that it is.
And I mean, I don't bring something like this up unless it addresses something that really bothers me. If people want to AFK fine. People have various reasons for it. Some pretty valid, some pretty sketchy, but I actually don't want to be in charge of bothering with who has a "good" excuse, and who doesn't.
I just want it to be not my problem. And right now, it so is. In so many ways. I can go into more depth if it comes to it, but being the guy who is pretty reliably NOT AFK in a game like this is basically the "sucker" position.
So, I want to be able to realize relatively quickly if I am surrounded by zombies - and sometimes, I might leave if that is the case. And I realize that is a sort of scary thought at first glance (albeit a goddamn selfish one, too). But not as scary as how pissed off and totally done with things people will be if you repeatedly force them to come to the slow, sinking realization that they've been suckered into yet another round of zombie time.
So Zsadist, you're the kind of guy who benefits from this, because it sounds like your tendency is to head out if you're not at least somewhat engaged with what's going on.
Also, sort of barely related, but for those of us who use nightsight, everyone is already grey during the night part of any aetolian day.
When I was playing I was a HUGE offender of the AFKing and idling. However, despite these objections I still think being greyed out would be better if only because of the simple fact that there is NOTHING stopping you from playing. This feature is nothing more than a courteousy to the other players that are actively playing.
Those that are concerned, perhaps you should instead look at it as a motivator to be and stay active. There's nothing wrong with playing catch up in events or roleplay. Information is not difficult to come by. If you still can't be bothered and choose to log off instead of committing... Then honestly I think that's better for both you and the game because a) the remainder players are left with like minded active players. Takes the guessing out of potential contacts and RP opportunities. And b) it HELPS you because you won't be burned out as much plus the fact that when you DO COMMIT, you'll likely be more set to be active.
All in all that's a better culture to have. That's my two cents anyway.
And that right there is why I'm one of the people who would make a trigger and just toggle it on or off based on whether I'm actually afk or not.
Review of basic idea: the gray "idle" color shows up on CWHO, GWHO, OWHO, WHO, WEB MEMBERS and uh... any other lists I might not think of. Gray color does NOT show up on website who listing. Might need to consider how this color would interact with other in-game coloration options, but for now, we're saying gray.
Okay, so if the system flags you as a zombie unless you are constantly chattering/RP-ing like a worker bee at the activity widget factory, that is bad. People will start opting out of the system for sure - even people who really like the idea will do that. So it probably needs to make you gray somewhere between 5-10 minutes of idling, but make it easy for a player who is pretty much "all there" to meet the "active" criteria.
Tentative list of the sort of things that would reset you as "awake": aggressive actions, movement, emoting, reading help files, LOOKING, checking inventory, probing items, using a shop directory, shopping, checking who lists, farseeing people, NSTAT, reading news, talking in says, tells or on any channel, calling, dismissing, or ordering loyals, checking logs, checking channel histories
Notice that several of those are things that nearly all of us do compulsively anyway (who doesn't do the old QL, NSTAT, cwho)
Things that would reset your "don't log me out timer" only: putting up/taking down/changing defs, healing
Also, it's super important that the flag be tied to NOTHING else. EVER. For example, it could be tempting to say "let's tie house rankings to this because it's a better gauge of activity". That is a very, very bad idea that could look like a good idea.
Because the second you do something like that is the second you are going to see more people make a keep awake specifically to avoid the gray flag (and boost whatever number, get whatever perk).
We'd see some automatic keep awakes anyway, going by some people's reactions, and "some" is okay. You can still look at those people and take their "I am here" at face value. All it really means is that if they don't answer, and you give them another shot a bit later, you can and should take it as them not wanting to talk to you - instead of wondering if it is that, or if they are AFK, and having to give them more chances later, and making sure you wait long enough to do so... and wondering if you're being super bothersome the entire time.
It does become more problematic if a truly large chunk of players use a "no gray flag ever" thing, but are in fact zombified despite their lack of grayness. I am not super worried about it coming to that, though, because it feels like there is enough buy in, and then there would be a lot of people who just won't care either way.
Finally, if this thing went in I would be gray sometimes. I mean, I think most of us would, unless we game it. And I actually like that idea, because I probably went to go make myself a cup of coffee or something. Or I am tinkering with something, and despite the gray silence you see, I am probably yelling at the computer (and also completely task-saturated).
EDIT: removed "manual basher" stuff, which I only brought up very tentatively because I thought it might be more convenient for everyone
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