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Artifacts: Cost vs Benefit
Lets go ahead and start posting the artifacts that we have a cost vs benefit discontentment.Keroc said:If you guys wanted start a thread about cost vs benefit for artifacts, then I'm pretty sure none of us upstairs would mind that. In fact we'd probably love to hear about it. If we can make artifact purchases more worthwhile then there's not much reason not to.
Also, please keep it civil and no flaming others for their opinions, but discussions are encouraged (Oasis): Benedicto says, "There was like 0.5 seconds between "Oh hey, they're in area. That was quick." and "OMFG THEY'RE IN THE AREA STAHP STAHP!""
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- Dye kits are a utility item, the sort of thing you'd toss onto alts to help them with their outfits, if you are so inclined. They are not crafting artifacts in line with the carving knife and so on. At present, they are an equivelant of 1,333 gold-bought dye kits, so 1,333 uses. Even dropping them down to 75 credits (something I at least would consider dropping on alts so they always have on one hand), would be equal to 500 dye kits, which is still more than almost anyone is likely to purchase.
- Forging Hammers are in a really uncomfortable place of being necessary and unnecessary. With it not stacking with apprenticeship, a forging hammer is equivalent of switching your apprenticeship 375 times. If I were to maintain my current restocking habits (a major forging spree every other month, so 6 a RL year), it would take me 20 years to make even on it versus just switching my apprenticeship before moving on to the next item type (longer than that really, since no one really makes use of thrown weapons so there's never really a need to apprentice in it). Something unique needs to be added to them to make them worth the high cost, over what apprenticing covers.
It should be 2% or 3% per 100cr, honestly. And I'm talking about things like rune of cutting, rune of bludgeoning, and to a lesser extent, rune of the leech(yes, I know its 300cr for 5%).
It's the same thing with the new artifact powers that were put in a few months ago, hunting_field, critical_field, and experience_field. I like these powers, I really do, I'd probably get experience_field because I take a lot of people bashing(believe it or not, I take a lot of lesser named and younger players in Bahir'an bashing alot), and it would be super useful. However...I can not buy 500 credits for a 5% increase to anything anymore. It's an extremely poor value.
I mean, I just figured this was the way we were gonna keep operating, since it seems to have been this way for some time and is really entirely one person's decision. If we could get the value of artifacts and artifact powers raised, and make it a little more cost efficient, then you probably would see a ton more income to support the game.
I can understand some of these things seeming 'unbalanced' if they were raised, but you already have a ton of other unbalanced things that haven't been changed anyways, so why not just raise the other stuff to make it have better value? If you have a choice between rune of cutting, rune of bludgeoning, and say experience_field, and rune of leech, which is 1800cr total, vs just getting a hood of elusion for 2000cr...most people are going to pick hood of elusion because of how vastly superior it is to awful 5% increases.
PS/Edit: Hunting_field is 5% increase, Experience_field is 10%, and Critical_field is 3%, and they're all 500cr, and they still suck, even with the one being 10%.
Rune of leeching is 5% and that is great I suppose if you are causing 2k+ in damage to a person (100 regained) but not if you are hitting at 700 damage (35 health regain) every 3.8secs.This is the same with other runes such as cutting or blunt, which add an additional 5% which in most cases is 40 damage. Sadly this is extremely low in the grand scheme of combat, even at mid-tier.
Perhaps reworking the formula for these three runes could be done to increase it to 10% with a max cap of 150 for leech and 100-120 for cutting/blunt.In terms of the ylem artifacts they are also underwhelming to say the least. Indeed I tend to agree with the residual_expand comments already stated by others.
These particular things could do with an increase from 10%/20%/30% to perhaps 20%/50%/100%.Now in terms of things I personally own so I am bias here unlike the other which I do not own.
(I just figure be upfront and not lie)
Prayer_mat
This was meant to give people like myself who struggle to get a blessing the chance to gain one every few real weeks at worst. However the time change made this item worthless as it now takes FOUR TIMES longer between uses.
Make this item work more times in a yearmaster_bombcrafter
Another item that will never be worth owning sadly. It sounds like a fantastic artefact from the description but in reality gives little to the skill.
Make it increase the damage a hell of a lot more as bombs just suck. Or alternatively just make bombs better as in twice the damage.Abhorash says, "Ve'kahi has proved that even bastards can earn their place."
edit: Though the above was just a factual statement, it seems it's still somehow controversial, so I'll offer up a different argument in favour of keeping artifact damage bonuses small and expensive as well. The simple case for this is that nobody wants Aetolian pvp to become a pay-to-win (or, depending on your outlook on the current state of the game, MORE of a pay-to-win) environment. If, say, the benefit of the cutting/blunt runes were doubled, it would result in a bigger gap between artifacted and non-artifacted characters' damage output, which is not desirable. Because it's undesirable, the game owners only allow people to obtain a substantial damage edge at a very high credit cost, or, if you will, payment for the game's continual development, which makes perfect sense to me.
I like the idea of increasing the base percentage of them as long as have a ceiling so they do not become op.
The answer to something being unbalanced should never, ever be, "We may as well bump these other things up."
@Riluo, man. I think prayer may should be available and (albeit at a higher value maybe?) Just replace a blessing. Now you're replacing something you can (maybe, it all depends I suppose) get with rp / activity with an artifact.
That, to me anyway, seems about where we should be with artifacts. Not getting something no one else can, so much. Certainly not basic quality of life things, but eh. Gotta make them $$s.
Staff of illusion. Add more balance or something to the use, violence timer or whatever. This is RP tool - is 500 cr really what you need to charge for it? If you bring it down to 250 and 10 people buy one, you've probably already made more money off of it than the last 6 months.
If things were cheap enough for people to feel comfortable buying them for multiple characters, hey. People would probably do it. I would, and then instead of that one time 800 cr purchase for whatever.. I'd probably have 3 characters wit h 400 cr wings (or whatever). At 1200.
It's really easy to say, "Eeh, not spending 700 cr on an alt I barely play."
A couple of nice 400 cr purchases might turn the tide, and now I have a character I'm really interested in that I want to buy more things for.
I remember, involve me and I
learn.
-Benjamin Franklin
A ring of resistance: magic_protection
This item costs 750 credits and adds 10% resistance to magic (magic damage, not magical attacks), which seems massively overpriced to the 15% reduction that shields provide for 350 credits, or the amulet of protection that provides 20/20 armour for unarmoured classes, or 10/10 armour to classes with armour for only 500 credits.
A simple white bandage: artifact_bandage AND a glass vial: artifact_vial
Frankly put, artifact vials and bandages are too expensive to buy en masse considering the huge amount of vials used if you want to go out bashing higher level areas for an extended period of time without running out of curatives. If artifact vials or bandages were sold at a reduced price, I'd probably consider investing in them.
residual_expand
The bonus this artifact provides feels pretty neglible, all things considered. I bought it because I wanted bigger reserves and it's probably the single most disappointing artifact I've owned.
I looked at the 'artifact purchase' list, and there were just tons of artifacts there that made me go 'has anyone even bought this?' and 'why does this cost credits?' I'd guess that there's several artifacts that hasn't even sold more than two or three times, and either their functionality is lacking or the price on them is simply too steep.
I'd kind of like to see improved_absorbtion work for all residual ylem gains instead of just vs eld, having it also improve the residual ylem you gain when you extract would be nice.
Rune of the asp is garbage, I just bought that to play with it and found that while it shows the target afflictions 2/3 of the time, it does not show the attacker those venoms. With the way venoms are now showing what venom has wiped off I'd like to see rune of the asp show what venoms it's doing when they're visible to the target, and show loki when it's not.
Syssin Charm - Please to be full refunding? I'd like to make a decision on it if/when you rework it instead of having a $254.99 thing that doesn't do a damn thing.
As far as Forging hammer goes, it does give you increased benefits to armor as well, which you can't get with apprenticeship @Areka. Unless I'm mistaken on that.
The update to the _field artifacts was a huge benefit to them and made them much more worth while. After seeing the approval for that liaison report I was willing to buy a second one. The additional 800 cr artifact to keep two fields up is a bit steep, I managed to get from a chest though. I don't I would've bit that bullet otherwise.
The forging hammer is also more or less about convenience. We don't really want to make it a must buy as people complained about it previously. I could see us adding a toggle of some sort so you don't need to be hidden yourself to find other hood users. Runes are more for people who have already bought most of the cost effective artifact runes and want more. There's no reason to buy cutting_power when you could buy statboost for example, but if you want MORE then you have that option. It's like this to stop dependency on needing to buy all the runes just to compete as a weapon class.
The fields are all relatively cost efficient compared to their artifact counterparts (xpgain and critical_chance), and they have always been big sellers. The prayer mat still works the same as it did before the time change. It has the same cooldown as before and resets per season.
Better damage for bombcrafting would be great, but you need to keep it mind it has three things holding it back. It has range, AoE damage, and is available to everyone. It would quickly turn into the artifact bow fiasco all over again if it were buffed in damage. The staff of illusion can be used for combat purposes, it's not just solely for RP. I could see us maybe changing it up (or making something new) as room emotes are commonly requested. I, uh, forgot about this. I'll work on it!
Wait in real life terms how often does that mean we can use it now? Sorry blonde moment here. Thanks.
Abhorash says, "Ve'kahi has proved that even bastards can earn their place."
Abhorash says, "Ve'kahi has proved that even bastards can earn their place."
Something something diminishing returns over a certain point that it really doesnt make too big a difference between 178-180 speed to it making a HUGE impact based on the way the skills work or something like that.
I could be wrong, but yeah with augments and whatnot available and everything not a HUGE difference.
@Areka - You are the forgemistress, correct me cause im likely wrong
If it did something else useful? Sure. Adds another few weeks or w/e of decay time if you forge something with it, so instead of 120 days it has 150, or increased the comms you got back from smelting from 50% to 75%, or let you repair existing items like we used to be able to with old forging, since there aren't artie weapons to compete with anymore.
Dye kits specifically, eh, I don't think the world would collapse if we sold them for cheaper. More important things to think about though then devaluing something a number of people have already bought.
Though I suppose we also have simply different views on what the 'health of the game' means.
Not trolling at all here, please don't mistake. But this confuses me.