Sect Revamp Complaint

Ezalor

I didn't want the first thread about this to be a negative one, so I'm gonna throw it here under a complaint thread rather than something about the change in Town Crier or whatever. I don't usually like to complain on the forums but this is a rather big issue for me.

So I got to 100,000 sect points, which was the max rank under the old system. 104,317 to be exact. At the time the rewards for tiers were:

10k: Sect channel
25k: Custom deathsight
50k: Hall of Blades
100k: Crown of Omens + custom behead

Neato, so I fought and fought and fought. I got to 25k and it was great, custom deathsight rocking the world. Then I got to 50k and...nothing. Okay maybe they're just working on it, I guess there's a lot of other development going on. Liaison changes were being coded at the time, some stuff about ylem mines, whatever. I won't complain about not having an area that only one person in the game could get in to. Admin should spend their time focusing elsewhere on content that everyone can enjoy. I'll just work towards the Crown.

Few months later, I get to 100k. And again...nothing. 2-3 more people get to 50k in this time and there's still no Hall of Blades. Well alright then I guess, the Crown is pretty OP, there are still projects to be worked on, I guess something for a population consisting in the single digits would still be selfish to ask for.

This is all fine and I waited patiently. I got all my fighting out of the way so that once all the stuff actually was released, I could just hop in. I've done all the work, put in all the time. Got it all out of the way. Finished my grind.

To put into perspective just how much fighting that was, some rough calculations. For the first few months of sect a win gave you 200 points and I got from 0 to around 50k under this system. After that a bug was fixed and being revealed now gave you 300 points for a win. I got from 50k to 100k under this system. Of course, this is only for wins, so I'm going to assume I won 75% of my fights.

That means I fought approximately 555 duels in that time to reach 100k. We can probably round that down to about 500 due to sect points from stuff like testing, accidental solo kills, that one bug for a couple days where team kills granted sect points.

500 fights, despite not getting any reward for 75% of those (from 25k to 100k points), but I did it because I thought some day, when it's an opportune time for this content to be put in, I would get credited and not have to go through this again. I can't remember the exact time but I'm fairly certain I hit 50k at least a real life year ago so that's how long I've been waiting. I can't really remember the exact time it took to fight 500 duels but I'm fairly certain it was over half a year of grinding.

And now the content has actually come out, but I'm reset back to rank 1. I kept my points, sure, so I have something to show for those 500 duels. But if I want to get back to where I was, where I had "unlocked" all the content, I need to fight 200 more times? I think that's extremely unfair. I put in hours and hours of fighting, burned myself out - without any reward - so that I could be comfortably "retired" when my interest in Aetolia waned and I wasn't anywhere close to as hardcore as I used to be.

I have exactly nothing to show for the entirety of my sect career, as to even get into the Hall I'd need to go fight 10 more times. I've burned myself out from even wanting to do that, let alone the 200 it'd take to get to where I was before. I already fought 250 duels to earn the right to enter that Hall, 250 more to get the rest of the ranks.

So I suppose the tl;dr of my giant rant was why were sect ranks not grandfathered in? The people who grinded and earned these did so through a huge amount of time, most of it with no reward, only to find themselves set right back at rank 1.

Disclaimer: I'm happy to see the content has finally been created and more people will probably be into Sect now. I just wish I hadn't wasted all my time grinding for nothing.

Rashar

Agreed, and I haven't put nearly the same amount of time in that Ezalor has. That's literally the only negative I see in this entire awesome revamp.

Trager

I'm kind of upset (Read VERY) that I got to rank four with the old system, which apparently is much more difficult than the new system, and I can't do anything with it anymore. I'd love to go in and see what I could spend said points on, but apparently I have to go fight it out ten times to earn back something I should have had available to begin with.

Literally, I don't even fight anymore, but I feel like I put the work in already.

Lim

Only complaint/suggestion I have is that THE COOLDOWN IS TOO LONG/NEEDS TO BE SHORTER.

Zsadist

I was nowhere near the ranks you guys are at, only having 10,635 points and at rank two of the old system, but I feel the exact same way. I should have access because those 10,635 points, with the math done, is about 53 fights that were won. Now, I'm not a badass and lost at least 70% of my fights in the sect to get to where I'm at. So adding the other 70% of fights, would place me at 90 fights.

Don't get me wrong, I love the new revamp and I really hope that this entices more people to join the Sect, but those of us who were part of the Sect before (as Ezalor said) should have been grandfathered in to whatever rank we were already at.

Draiman

Zsadist said:

I was nowhere near the ranks you guys are at, only having 10,635 points and at rank two of the old system, but I feel the exact same way. I should have access because those 10,635 points, with the math done, is about 53 fights that were won. Now, I'm not a badass and lost at least 70% of my fights in the sect to get to where I'm at. So adding the other 70% of fights, would place me at 90 fights.

Don't get me wrong, I love the new revamp and I really hope that this entices more people to join the Sect, but those of us who were part of the Sect before (as Ezalor said) should have been grandfathered in to whatever rank we were already at.

I can totally understand Ezalor or Trager being upset or frustrated, having not only worked and grinded -forever- but also -winning- their fights. They not only put in the time but also performed. The rest of us? We were months away from the Hall anyways, so right now it's closer to within your grasp than it ever was before.

Rashar

For some of us the appeal wasn't access to the halls.

Draiman

Revoke @Ezalor's membership. He kicked the shrub and it died. We don't need that kinda crap in here.

Toz

Draiman said:

Revoke @Ezalor's membership. He kicked the shrub and it died. We don't need that kinda crap in here.

Leave it to @Ezalor to bring player versus environment into the hallowed halls of pk. What a scrub.

Lim

wtf he killed Mr Bushy.

Keroc

Draiman said:

Revoke @Ezalor's membership. He kicked the shrub and it died. We don't need that kinda crap in here.

If you kill the shrub, you take it's place. Them the rules.

For those of you that don't read the in game news, we've grandfathered those of you who were part of the old system into the new one. It would've been done earlier, but I escaped my shackles and decided to roam free in the countryside.

P.S. Send help...

Ezalor

Thank you based @Keroc

Best I can send for help is @Ilyon though.

Toz

Ezalor said:
Rustle rustle.

Lim

I want to make a similar point here that I made in relation to the Vortex:

The incentive structure for Sect is mismatched.

__Incentivising participation v.s. winning__
There is a distinction between incentivising participation and incentivising winning. For the former, you get rewards just by being a part of the game, being involved. For the latter, you only get rewards for winning.

In the previous iteration of the Sect of Blades, there was no incentive for participation. The perks you got depended on points, and points depended on winning more than you lost. The decision to incentive participation was a great step in the right direction. By making it such that you gained ranks from the number of duels you had, regardless of whether you won, it gave people the incentive to participate.

At the start, this incentive was strongest because people were curious to know what was in the Hall of Blades. In the first couple of days, the arena was stacked high with corpses. I harvested 16 mortal hearts at a go.

What happened since then?

__The risk of 'Probable death''__
When people sect challenge, there is a risk of probable death. For this, I am a large part a factor, I know. But I am regretfully unapologetic. It is the nature of any sport or contest that some have to be better than others. Otherwise, it ceases to be a sport.

There are a couple in the sect who are good fighters. Over time, everyone figures out whom they can beat, and can't. For most, they aren't at the stage where their likelihood of winning is assuredly high. They don't look to win, because they don't expect to win. They expect a mere chance of beating someone, some slimmer than others. For them, it is a matter of participation, not winning.

Let me be clear. The rewards for winning are great. I love the items that we can buy at the Hall of Blades shop. They have tangible benefits, and they increase the options that one has in PvP. Unfortunately, these are irrelevant to the average participant. If you don't expect to win, these items are out of your reach, and far too costly for the measly points that you have accrued.

What then are the participation rewards ?

__The rewards for participation post rank one__
Now that most participants have hit rank one, there is no more drive to enter the Hall of Blades. This was accelerated by the fact that sect combatants got grandfathered in based on their pre-existing participation.

We take a look at the other participation perks: There are three weaponry abilities. I personally find them niche and muted in effect. There is access to the Crown of Omens, but this is not a participation reward - only the best get to win it. There is the Horn of Toscin, which I gather to be some sort of challenging mechanic. Again, only enticing to people who regularly win fights.

There is a dearth of rewards for people who are there mainly to participate.

__The Sect arena needs to reward both participation and winning__
Unfortunately, the Aetolia combat scene isn't at a stage where most combatants are intrinsically obsessed with combat and self-motivated. Most combatants are casual combatants who would PvP if given the right incentives and circumstance (e.g. lesser fights, an RP event), but not otherwise.

It takes being immersed in combat, continuous trying, in order to transform that extrinsic motivation into something intrinsic. For players to get in the game, to become addicted to combat, they need to first be encouraged to participate. Until it sticks. Until they do it because it is complex and exciting and empowering.

The rewards for winning are great, but more attention still needs to be placed on the rewards for participation.

Ishin

Hey, did you guys take out the ranked spars when you did the revamp? 'cause uh...I haven't seen a post about it, and some of us still use ranked spars in requirements and stuff.

Lim

Need generous rewards for participation.