Why is the Dominion so dysfunctional

RiluoRiluo The DoctorMember Posts: 821 ✭✭✭✭
edited February 2015 in Harpy's Head Tavern
A question I have been asking myself for a while now and it is one that raises more questions than answers. Having had to deal with the dysfunctional nature of the organisation a lot in the last three real months I have concluded a few things. Firstly, the Dominion is two very distinct camps of thought, those who will rally to a cause when asked, get involved in activities and aim to push the purpose of the dominion forward. Conversely, the other is set on burying its head in the sand. Nevertheless, it could be great roleplay if it was played out having two sides to the equation, although sadly the dominion cannot function in this nature. I suppose this is to be expected given the diverse leaderships, and different ideals. It could be fun if done right? No it is not. The divide is based on something that will not change when there are two conflicting views of what the Purpose of the Dominion truly is. An easy example was the recent changes with Neoma trying to recreating her House and Aldric doing the same. Right there two brilliant opportunities for both sides of the Dominion to get involved, what with one side trying to approach it with politics and subterfuge, whilst the other is trying to establish the strength of the “Empire”. Sadly, this cannot occur when neither side can communicate due to polar opposites in philosophy and doctrine.

Another example was the recent mass insults to the Dominion by outside parties, guilds and cities. However, again nothing was said or done to resolve the issue. Nothing was done to progress the storyline along due to half of the Dominion having no desire to get involved and the other just wants to kill in the name of the Empire. I comprehend that people have different ideas on how their character should react, but I just cannot grasp why it must always conflict with the central rp of a theme. That frustrates me to no end. The Dominion is setup currently that it requires a majority vote to put things into action. It requires certain Houses to give the go ahead, yet these House are the same ones that desire to not to be involved in activities.

Indeed, when the conversations are brought up in groups about what the Dominion means it is always the same result, the dominion is the Imperium 2.0 all over again as people have be divided and are confused.


So how do we fix it because the foundation that the admin put in place is solid enough, it gives some wiggle room for rp, and a strong basis for establishing House roles? However, there are no mechanical aspects in place to hold people accountable or to support, enforce the purpose of the organisation, or indeed further the true purpose of the Dominion. Whatever it is?

• What could be added to improve this?
• What is the purpose of the dominion really?
• How do you suggest this is approach now that IC wise the thing is at a stalemate
• What do people think of the Dominion in all honesty.

My opinion here is bias, as I want to see the dominion unified as a singular body that responds to threats against the Consanguine. I want to see some changes in how things are handled and to ensure the central theme of upholding the Empire is done at any length. I would love to see a way to call hunts via a voting system that requires all members to cast a vote, as well as a greater emphasis on what it means to be a Consanguine.

Abhorash says, "Ve'kahi has proved that even bastards can earn their place."

Comments

  • MalokMalok Member Posts: 529 ✭✭✭✭
    I like the Dominion as a idea. In execution, it's not been that good though. I honestly believe that the root of the problem, of alllll the problems, is the fact that it's an organization ran by a character who is only played every once in a blue moon. It's hard to fear or respect the Primus when you only see him once a month or whatever. Organization heads are supposed to be active, and actively lead. I understand that Abhorash is an admin played character. I'm just saying that one of the most important organizations in the entire game of Aetolia is 'lead' by someone who only is around once every 30-60 real days.

    That's not leading. It's hard to follow a lead that doesn't exist.
    "Hell hath no hold on a warrior’s mind, see how the snow has made each of us blind. Vibrant colors spray from new dead, staining the earth such a beautiful red."
    MoireanCattyColette
  • MoireanMoirean Chairmander PortlandMember, Newbie Helper, Guildmaster Posts: 5,612 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yep, Malok nailed it. It's not just that Abhorash is inactive, too, it's that he's basically admin telling us how we have to do things and steering stuff. The goal may not be that, but that's it comes across - everyone know Abhorash is run by admin and he's Mary Sue all-powerful, so it feels like it's pointless to try to object or change things. Even with Aldric and I making our spin-off house, it still feels like it's pretty much a futile thing. Nothing will change, really.
    MalokVolkaCatty
  • IshinIshin Retired Lurker VirginiaMember, Guildmaster Posts: 1,765 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think if two camps of players are having issues and they're part of the same org, they need to pull their faces out of their unicorns and communicate with one another. If the Syssin can do it, there's absolutely no excuse for the Dominion to be unable to do so. Even in a larger org like Spinesreach, people generally have the same idea of what's going on as everyone else - covert ops not withstanding.

    I really feel like you guys are just bitching to unicorns sometimes, so far as being -part- of the Dominion, because it isn't what you're used to and you don't -want- to change. It's here. It's probably NOT leaving. Get over it and move on.
    Tell me and I forget, teach me and
    I remember, involve me and I
    learn.
    -Benjamin Franklin
  • MoireanMoirean Chairmander PortlandMember, Newbie Helper, Guildmaster Posts: 5,612 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The issue is, Ishin, whether by design or not, it's not really a player-org. It's Abhorash's show. Players are in this weird spot where they can't really direct how it goes. The most agency you have with the Dominion is by leaving it/rebelling against it.
    MalokColette
  • MalokMalok Member Posts: 529 ✭✭✭✭
    I wanna make it clear that I'm also not against Abhorash. I'm also not against Abhorash being admin played. I'm against Abhorash being completely absent from day to day life of all Consanguine, with perhaps the exception of his childer(the ones who lead the Houses, etc). Why in gods name would my character continue to revere and respect someone like Abhorash that only comes around and runs dumb numbers-based competitions and craps on me when I'm like the most active person in my House?

    I think that the current model could continue just fine, if Abhorash was around more frequently. It's really that simple. By more frequently I mean at least a few times a week, not once a month. You get an actual active leader for the Dominion in this way and the Dominion will change and flourish, I guarantee it.
    "Hell hath no hold on a warrior’s mind, see how the snow has made each of us blind. Vibrant colors spray from new dead, staining the earth such a beautiful red."
    Colette
  • ZsadistZsadist Member Posts: 815 ✭✭✭✭
    Riluo said:

    So how do we fix it because the foundation that the admin put in place is solid enough, it gives some wiggle room for rp, and a strong basis for establishing House roles? However, there are no mechanical aspects in place to hold people accountable or to support, enforce the purpose of the organisation, or indeed further the true purpose of the Dominion. Whatever it is?

    • What could be added to improve this?
    • What is the purpose of the dominion really?
    • How do you suggest this is approach now that IC wise the thing is at a stalemate
    • What do people think of the Dominion in all honesty.

    My opinion here is bias, as I want to see the dominion unified as a singular body that responds to threats against the Consanguine. I want to see some changes in how things are handled and to ensure the central theme of upholding the Empire is done at any length. I would love to see a way to call hunts via a voting system that requires all members to cast a vote, as well as a greater emphasis on what it means to be a Consanguine.

    First off, I would like to say that I think this right here, would be a GREAT thing to debate/discuss IG/IC wise. It would give everyone a chance to voice their thoughts/opinions on the matter to give them more of a chance at roleplay. Anyway, onto my post.

    Alot of people seem to think that having an absent leader (Abhorash) isn't conducive to the organization. I don't think thats the case at all. I mean, lets take his position and then transfer it to an Order. I don't see Dhar, Maghak, Haern, Iosyne, Severn, Omei, Damariel, or Ivoln logging in all the time, and yet everyone still goes around and does the edicts written by them and doing tasks from those who were elected as the head of the Order. Nor do I see people saying, "Oh, this Order sucks because (insert gods name here) isn't active anymore!" I think whats more the case is that people don't want to be tied down to the strict rules the Dominion has, but again, thats a choice on the player. This is going to sound very abrasive, but strict rules aren't for everyone. If you don't like them, then leave.

    What could be added to improve this?
    - In all honesty, I don't think anything can be done to improve the Dominion to be better than what it is. Its composed of 4 Houses that all have different edicts, styles, and rules. Not to mention the 75 players that are derived from all 4 Houses; of which, over half of them don't want to unicorns do anything anyway! They just want to sit there and go, "Let me RP, leave me alone." Again, thats a choice on the player and I'm not trying to pick on those who do prefer to RP instead of get involved, but thats the mentality for most of the people in the Dominion. Another thing that came to be a problem with the Dominion is how activity is recorded. Lets take the Gaes event for example, rewards were going to be based upon who killed the most rogues. Now, this event could have been far bigger than what it was by attacking all rogues (even player rogues) and would have been far more fun. Instead, its dwindled down to a small area of about 10 rooms that is only accessible BY those who live in a House and even then noone could do anything because you had 5 campers in the area 24/7 going in a circle and killing any rogue the moment they repopped. It really puts a damper on anyone wanting to participate when there's ALWAYS SOMEONE IN THERE!

    What is the purpose of the dominion really?
    What do people think of the Dominion in all honesty.
    - Honestly, the purpose of the Dominion should be to gather everyone under one banner that goes, "This is who we are. Fear us. Tremble before us. Kneel before us." Maybe not in such a strong manner, but you get the idea. As of right now, the Dominion doesn't really HAVE a purpose. Its just a glorified channel for which everyone in a House and Abhorash can communicate on for a higher purpose that only the admins are aware of. The Dominion has no purpose other than to give each House or vampire a means to give the player a guide to their RP. Prime example are the new edicts of each House. Nebre'seir is the police force, you're most likely going to get involved in PK. Don't want that, maybe politics is your game, join D'baen! If politics isn't your game and you wanna be try to convert people, join Ve'kahi! If you wanna sit there and read the Dominion laws and learn them inside and out and also try to get Rogues to rejoin the Dominion, join Bahir'an! Don't like any of these, stay a Rogue! In the end, the Dominion serves no purpose other than to guide a player with their RP and it really is just a glorified channel to talk on.

    How do you suggest this is approach now that IC wise the thing is at a stalemate
    - Honestly, that is something that is going to need alot of discussion. We live in a community where change is adversely frowned upon unless forced to change. We also have a community that lives by the banner, "Leave me alone, unless absolutely necessary because I wanna RPz." The stalemate is because in the end, Abhorash has final call on everything. Try as you might to push a boulder, but unless Abhorash says its going to move, its not going to move. There's really nothing you can do about it. I'm not trying to be that guy and be negative about it, but this is purely what it boils down to.
    (Oasis): Benedicto says, "There was like 0.5 seconds between "Oh hey, they're in area. That was quick." and "OMFG THEY'RE IN THE AREA STAHP STAHP!""


    VolkaCattyIshin
  • AshmerAshmer Barefoot Adventurer LifeMember Posts: 1,095 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2015
    It sounds like the complaints are those you hear in other organizations at times that are native to IRE MUDs. Inactive/afk leadership (not talking about Abhorash), leaders not doing what you want IC, or being ineffective at getting the exact result you want out of an event or happening. There are always IC routes to address these complaints.

    I really don't mean to be obtuse or trolly when I ask this: what needs to change? What's "wrong" with it?
    Post edited by Ashmer on

    the way she tells me I'm hers and she is mine

    open hand or closed fist would be fine

    blood as rare and sweet as cherry wine

    Ishin
  • TeaniTeani Evening Sky SwedenMember Posts: 2,110 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've never played a Vampire and I am not involved in the Dominion, but one of my earliest memories of someone explaining "the awesome that is the RP of Aetolia" was when someone told me a story of Abhorash walking into the room and all 'darkies' basically fell prostrate in front of him in awe and Pjoll, as one of few 'lifers' in the room kept standing.

    I think @Zsadist is right in that the Dominion should be a force to reckon with. Sure, Houses can bicker between them and there can be some kind of politics in which one is more powerful at the moment thing going on in the background, but if there is a threat towards the Consanguine as a whole, all Houses should come together and there should be hell to pay for those who stand against them. Essentially meaning that you'd be a fool to go against them unless you have the entirety of Enorian backing you, unless you know it can't be pinpointed on you.

    This is not my way of saying "if you're a vampire in the Dominion it's alright to bring your Dominion riends with you to fight your fights." There should, however, be other ways to be able to show your support of someone.

    What this would mean for the Vampires outside the Dominion is no support from the Dominion if they are attacked and other possible exclusions, since they have chosen to live as Vampires, but don't embrace the full concept. It should -mean- something to make that choice. It's not just something you hop in and out from like a city or guild.

    Just my 2 cents



  • AishiaAishia Queen Bee Member Posts: 2,269 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I mean, lots of guilds are pretty slow and nothing but some vague background of identity. Not to say that's a good thing but it's definitely not unique to the Dominion. These things are just sums of their parts, or sums of how their parts choose to work together. There's not a huge magic formula for making them more active besides charisma+initiative.
  • IshinIshin Retired Lurker VirginiaMember, Guildmaster Posts: 1,765 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Man...I miss PJ :(
    Tell me and I forget, teach me and
    I remember, involve me and I
    learn.
    -Benjamin Franklin
    Teani
  • RiluoRiluo The DoctorMember Posts: 821 ✭✭✭✭
    Thank you all for the feedback.

    It is a challenge to balance the needs of one group with another and incorporate the needs of all parties involved, but to reach compromise requires a bit of give and take. Which is somewhat harder that it appears with such strong and diverse players types.

    I honestly think the issues we face could be resolved with a defined mechanical feature to allow for voting to call hunts in the case of the latter mentioned issues. It might also be worth looking at other similar ideas to ensure people are represented more in the greater picture rather than replying on four leaders.

    Abhorash says, "Ve'kahi has proved that even bastards can earn their place."

  • AlexinaAlexina the Haunted Soul Member Posts: 851 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2015
    I left the Dominion because I failed to understand the point of the organization. There's no intuitive way to progress in it, nor is there a clearly stated purpose with the organization, nor does it provide mechanics that engage me as a player in the whole vampire roleplay.

    There was some cool queststuffs added to it by Iosyne, but that was a year and a half ago or so? Did anything tangible really happen since then? The quests let you do Dominion stuffs for the glory of your house or whatnot, but it never really felt like the houses were competing for prestige or approval or anything like that anyway.

    I don't know. I'm going to bury my head in the sand again.

    EDIT:
    It'd be cool of the Dominion just turned into the vampire guild. At least then it'd fulfill a purpose that people can understand, and it'd allow people to advance in ranks, etcetera.
    image
    MalokIshin
  • AshmerAshmer Barefoot Adventurer LifeMember Posts: 1,095 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Riluo said:

    Thank you all for the feedback.

    It is a challenge to balance the needs of one group with another and incorporate the needs of all parties involved, but to reach compromise requires a bit of give and take. Which is somewhat harder that it appears with such strong and diverse players types.

    I honestly think the issues we face could be resolved with a defined mechanical feature to allow for voting to call hunts in the case of the latter mentioned issues. It might also be worth looking at other similar ideas to ensure people are represented more in the greater picture rather than replying on four leaders.

    Riluo, it sounds like you wish the Dominion as a whole would take violent action against certain groups IC, and they aren't, and this is the source of your complaint. Is that accurate?

    the way she tells me I'm hers and she is mine

    open hand or closed fist would be fine

    blood as rare and sweet as cherry wine

  • RiluoRiluo The DoctorMember Posts: 821 ✭✭✭✭
    Not necessarily no. I am more incline to say that I wish the Dominion would rally together rather than standing divided on issues. The purpose of the Dominion was to create a central place where we could exist as a singular united front. Instead it has become silent and reminiscent of the Imperium insofar as there is no dialogue and when there is it revolves around a divided philosophy of "who cares" and "we would rather not." This is not even related to violence per say, it also includes events, rp, debate and trying to advance the "Empire" as a whole. Some of us have tried to stirrup conversation, whys of creating political ties with organisations or ways to inspire new players to get involved.

    Indeed, in the past several of us have tried to create activity that will benefit both fighters, role-players and bashers alike. However it always ends with silence or the same people stating the same things time and again.

    Is it therefore any wonder why we lost dominion members.

    Abhorash says, "Ve'kahi has proved that even bastards can earn their place."

  • AshmerAshmer Barefoot Adventurer LifeMember Posts: 1,095 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oh, okay. Thanks for clearing that up for me. It sounds like you're facing the troubles that have plagued all democratic committees throughout the ages - from what you're saying, it sounds like to CHANGE something with the Dominion as a whole or to ENACT or DO something, you need a majority vote from the House leaders?

    the way she tells me I'm hers and she is mine

    open hand or closed fist would be fine

    blood as rare and sweet as cherry wine

    Riluo
  • YarelYarel Member Posts: 78 ✭✭✭
    Where a lot of my frustration with the Dominion comes from, is a combination of what Malok and Riluo have touched on. You have an Organization, much like a Divine Order, that is headed by an Admin controlled character. One that is seldom ever around. Not so much of a problem in and of itself... The Organizational structure of the Dominion would allow it to function just fine, again like a Divine Order, in the absence of Abhorash, except that it seems rather impossible to get some of the House Leaders to participate. Take the current conflict. Nebre'seir fills the Enforcer/police role. I like that. I like PK, and I like being able to let Yarel be a hot head. From the start, Riluo has tried to get the other members of the Dominion to try to work on the political side, or failing that, vote to unleash Nebre'seir and let it be handled that way.

    I sat one night and watched as he tried and tried and tried to get people to do SOMETHING. During that time, I only saw one other House leader respond, and they hurried off as quickly as they could manage. Now, I don't knock that. We all play the game for our own reasons, and have our own interests. The problem is that this forces everything to wait for Abhorash to decide what to do.

    A city can elect a Council that consists of the people best suited, and most interested in taking care of City matters. The council of the Dominion is made up by the heads of the Houses. Ezalor may be really popular, and he may be great for D'baen, while at the same time, being absolutely horrible when it comes to his duties to the Dominion. (Not saying this is the case, just used Ezalor as an example because I am confident that he will not get his feelings hurt by my doing it. And if he DOES... Then he'll just kill me.)

    Maybe things could be improved by having each House elect or appoint a Dominion Rep who speaks for the house, and who is able to vote on behalf of their House. Let the House leaders worry about their Houses, rather than doing double duty.

    Or.. Maybe a military coupe is in order. Lol
    Riluo
  • AngweAngwe I'm the dog that ate yr birthday cake Bedford, VAMember Posts: 978 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yarel said:



    Or.. Maybe a military coupe is in order. Lol

    m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3Kvu6Kgp88
    image
    Riluo
  • AishiaAishia Queen Bee Member Posts: 2,269 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well I think another problem with it is, you have your houses, who WANT to be independent and self governing, and then you have this larger organization that is supposed to govern it. Almost feels like paying it too much mind undermines your own power and individuality/independence. I mean I can remember being the leader of a vampire house and not wanting anything to DO with the Imperium.
    IshinMalokMoireanVeovis
  • AngweAngwe I'm the dog that ate yr birthday cake Bedford, VAMember Posts: 978 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Aishia I may be missing something obvious, as I've never played a vampire (and, c'mon, it's me) but isn't that what being a rogue House is for?
    image
  • IshinIshin Retired Lurker VirginiaMember, Guildmaster Posts: 1,765 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Angwe said:

    @Aishia I may be missing something obvious, as I've never played a vampire (and, c'mon, it's me) but isn't that what being a rogue House is for?

    There -are- no rogue Houses now. Unless you want to count House Cardinalis. Pls do. I rly want to PK.
    Tell me and I forget, teach me and
    I remember, involve me and I
    learn.
    -Benjamin Franklin
    Angwe
  • RasharRashar Member Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Trying to think of a Cardinalis that I'd take seriously aside from @ishin.
    Ishin
  • IshinIshin Retired Lurker VirginiaMember, Guildmaster Posts: 1,765 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Rashar said:

    Trying to think of a Cardinalis that I'd take seriously aside from @ishin.

    Hold on I gotta check clan members.

    ...processing...

    Mazzion. Benedicto.

    Lot of oldbies who aren't around anymore on exec_summary though. Makes me sadface :(
    Tell me and I forget, teach me and
    I remember, involve me and I
    learn.
    -Benjamin Franklin
  • RasharRashar Member Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Benedicto ain't a real Cardinalis.

    And Mazzion doesn't even emote. Psh. Not even sure he's real!
  • AldricAldric Member Posts: 790 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Kerryn is a Cardinalis. Don't you even begin to try and tell me you're not scared of her, @Rashar.
    image
    Feelings, sensations that you thought were dead. No squealin' remember, that it's all in your head.
  • RasharRashar Member Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Psh, Kerryn don't scare me bruh. Unless she wants another whuppin!
  • SaritaSarita Empress of Bahir'an The Pillars of the EarthMember, Guildmaster Posts: 782 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've seen Mazzion emote.
  • TozToz Member Posts: 2,494 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sarita said:

    I've seen Mazzion emote.

    This kills the Mazzion.

    Arbre-Today at 7:27 PM

    You're a vindictive lil unicorn
    ---------------------------

    Lartus-Today at 7:16 PM

    oh wait, toz is famous
    ---------------------------

    Karhast-Today at 7:01 PM

    You're a singularity of unicorns awfulness Toz
    Ishin
  • DristinDristin Member Posts: 625 Immortal
    This thread has run it's course, so closing it down.
    image
    RiluoIshin
This discussion has been closed.