If you could change one thing about our class system, what would it be?

Oleis

I like topics along these lines to get discussion brewing and see where we might improve. As with all of my threads, don't bother arguing with each other. Just focus all that good-natured fight in my direction.

Standard disclaimer: my appreciation of your ideas in no way constitutes a willingness or intention to actually implement them. This is purely hypothetical.

So, have at it. Multiclass, all that stuff. What bugs you? What would be super cool? What would be helpful?

Toz

Wish there was a point to being in guilds. They feel like vending machines. Credits come in from purchases, class goes out to people. And that's the end of their mechanical benefit.

Some things that'd be neat:
- A way to interact with the city guards trained in their style
- A way to help influence mobs in an area, maybe Enorian Templars train Tainhelm guards and make them a bit beefier until they're killed?
- Small bonuses (basically scale down rogues and keep guilded the same) to certain 'core' skills. Syssin might snipe better, Cabalists count without needing to use fingers/toes, Teradrim lose less WP with remote sand, etc.

I'm almost to where I miss Houses in Achaea, honestly - I'd rather have, with multiclass, a group of people dedicated to core beliefs with different skills than a group of people with beliefs that are in charge of a set of skill. Cabalist become researchers, Carnifex work as soldiers, etc. I know it's impractical, but I can dream.

Ilyon

One thing? I would allow tri-trans people to apprentice others even if they are not in the correct guild.

Yes, Controversy is my middle name.

Rashar

Isn't that what exists now, in some of the guilds that are actually doing things right? Admittedly, I've only been in three guilds ever in this game. But I'll say that the Carnifex -definitely- have a feel to them, and a theme that seems pretty legit, at least to a newer member. It's just that sort of common core that I imagine guilds -should- have, to be honest. A guild is kind of lame when it exists as a collection point for skills, or when there's no focus or identity or real drive. That much is agreed. I think it's up to the players to make that happen, though, instead of revolving the entirety of the guild around a set of skills (or worse, their distribution).

Your suggestions were pretty cool, though I don't know if I agree with handicapping rogues any more than they already are. I think a little more cross-guild work would be cool to encourage somehow, but I'm not sure how you would do that. Or even more city/guild intrigue or tension. I'd like to see the -guilds- taking on the majority of that RP identity that people are looking for, and leave cities to something much looser.

Hrm. Except I'm not sure what any of that has to do with classes. Tbh, I'm not sure I have a problem right now with the way classes are handled, in and of themselves. All the issues have been entirely player-driven.

Remove tether control? Do want to Luminary. Do want glowing spear.

Aryanne

Assuming you need to be GR3 to have class, you should need to be GR3 to apprentice others in the class.

Doesn't make any sense to me that a GR1/2 can supposedly know a class good enough to give it to someone else, yet not well enough to keep if they leave the guild themselves? This.. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Toz

Honestly I agree with Ilyon. Let anyone tri trans give out class, and let us be picky about who we let into our guilds.

Oleis

To clarify, since @Aryanne is worried about something specific: tri-trans people with class.

Moirean

I would love to see more depth to the skillsets, beyond just PK and a bashing option or two. I think the Carni revamp is heading in the right direction with the cool hound breeding and fun stuff like pathing, and we saw some fun options with the Sent revamp as well and I really would just love to see more to do with skills beyond just attacking things. Stuff like fun ways to move and interact with the environment, a wider range of ways to interact with mobs, RP things, exploring/questing skill uses, etc.

Also, I'd love some more economic options. Aetolia's economy is really flat, and I enjoy that aspect of the game. I am not looking forward to losing a bunch of the mercantile skills I've invested credits in, so I really would prefer if a better and more engaging solution was considered instead of a lame copy of Lusternia's one tradeskill to rule them all - I absolutely lost interest in economics and crafting there, because I enjoy doing a LOT of stuff, not just being stuck with one choice.

Alexina

I think you should rename the title of this thread to 'If you could change things about our class system, what would it be?'

If I could only change one thing ever about our current class system, it would be so that characters would be tri-trans in their guild skills at level 80. New players (who are most likely are not familiar with pay-for-perk MUDs) need to experience the full diversity of our classes' skillsets before being asked to pay for game content. This is sort of in the same vein of making guildrank 3 accessible with a reasonable amount of investment (in time/effort rather than money); the higher that Aetolia's threshold is, the fewer people will actually step over it.

Higher player retention would hopefully lead to more people paying for the rest of the skillsets (avoidance, survival, etc), but that's just a guess on my part.

Oleis: can we imaginary-change more things if we want to?

Areka

Similarly, more mechanical perks for being in the class' guild, with varying degrees of consequence for type of rogue (city/treatied org rogue ((purpose to treaties/sanctions!)), full rogue, rogue operating within enemy borders/allegiances. Guild only skills, sanction/treaty-only skills, etc, maluses, especially for divergent rogues that actually mean something other than not being able to Recuperate. I would rather see class/skills/the roleplay of them and their intentions bear more weight.

Aishia

I never liked multiclass! One class for everyone! boo! But that being said, I pretty much am ok with everything more or less as is, but I know how the world works, and tweaks and changes happening over time seem to be a part of the natural evolution, and keeping things interesting for some people. I mean, ya, more perks, more eventy and skill-y stuff is cool The base system it's built upon is fine, massive dynamic shifts might need tethering looked at but it's pretty perfect as things stand.

Lim

I agree very much with Ilyon and Toz.

My only gripe about the class distribution system is a homogeneous single group of players having a stranglehold on game content. This creates a monopoly (or oligopoly, depending on whether you see the guild or player as the entity) on the class.

It's not as bad if what you're denying others is a perk, like say, 5% boost in this, or -5% reduction in that, or the ability to do X wherever, as opposed to only a certain location, etc. Those are things that you can live without and does not take a substantial chunk of game play away from you.

In short, I'd like to see class being divorced from guilds. Guilds should have perks, rather than fundamental content, attached to them.

Ishin

I had mentioned it before, in another thread, but I'd really like it if each city had a class or two that was specifically tethered to THAT city and nobody else could get it outside of that city. You could even do it so Loch/Eno get two(because vamp/bb and lumi/daru), Spines could get Carnifex and Duiran could get Shaman. The other classes could be shared around, but that sharing could/would be limited to what the other cities' roleplay allowed. Like...I doubt you'd see a rogue Sentinel running around in Loch. They already don't let Yeleni in. or living Idreth unless you're treatied.

But I could see one in Spinesreach, perhaps. Or a Syssin in Duiran.

I'd also like to see something similar to autoclass.

I hate that guilds have the onus of passing out class. It's like this thing with the Syssin. I don't CARE that you guys have the class. What I care about is that it's against 'guild law' for us to hand it out to people who don't have 'permission', and then we get stuck with the shit end of the stick and have to ostracize those who do give it out for credits or whatever. That's a shit situation for -us-, and I'd rather we not be in it at all.

I changed class in Achaea yesterday, and it was as simple as 'walk to delos/find certimene/ask certimene become alchemist'. But, I never changed Houses. I'd really like to see similar in Aetolia - while still allowing the individual guilds to apprentice if they so choose. The catch to that would that being in whatever guild requires you to still have whatever class. I'm okay with that, but I can see where some people might have an issue with that too.

It just feels like where we are right now is too much in-the-middle, instead of being all the way to one side(no class-sharing), or the other(free class sharing).

Reux

I'm going to be a putz and just throw in, unconstructively, that I absolutely adore that lifers have a variety of affliction classes now. Much better than the old days of either paladins or figuring out how to snag a syssin.

Reux

The only weird complaint I have is endgame SHIFT. Means that +eq, and a class that utilizes eq, is tanking favored in pve. Granted, mages and shamans seem to be slower than the BB and were that I've had, but meh.

I thought SHIFT was supposed to be a true-eq move?

So... I'm not really encouraged to actually branch class, because I feel superior sticking to a caster over anything else, before pvp. Especially since overkill seems to favor caster single attacks too.

Edit:

Pardon the double post. Supposed to be an edit of the original.

Parker

How does overkill favor single attacks? Once you're endgame and have crits every other hit, if not getting lucky and getting multiple in a row, combo attacks are where you up your bashing rate.

Moirean

Reux said:

The only weird complaint I have is endgame SHIFT. Means that +eq, and a class that utilizes eq, is tanking favored in pve. Granted, mages and shamans seem to be slower than the BB and were that I've had, but meh.

I thought SHIFT was supposed to be a true-eq move?

So... I'm not really encouraged to actually branch class, because I feel superior sticking to a caster over anything else, before pvp.

I don't see how it's a huge boon. You can't just spam it, since you're limited by your own health/mana pools and those refill on a static timers (sip, regen, etc). Shift yourself repeatedly and you'll just get yourself killed...

Sarita

I think as long as we're heading in the direction of making class easier to get, I would love to see guilds given more control over the roleplay direction that they and any guild apprentices they have get to go. Ideally, I think I'd like to see more meaning given to ranks beyond GR 3, so that a guild might have novice, apprentice (GR 1-3), not-quite-full member (Gr 3-whatever the guild wants, in reason, and set by the admin/patron in consultation with the GM), and then full member after that. This would be particularly nice if things like voting in elections vs contesting vs voting in referendums could be set to the different levels (again, the admin approval in setting up the ranks would ensure that things don't get out of hand and limited only to the highest ranks.)

I would also love to see the guild be able to set different levels of privileges for apprentices: maybe something like guildhall access for the basic sanction, and then something special for a higher sanction like access to the Pillars for Teradrim, use of the guild flame/spark/master crystal for Illumination/mage guilds, etc.

I feel like changes like that might help ease the sense of guilds only being about dispensing class, especially in light of the new changes to the requirements we can have for getting it through the guild. It could go a long way towards making the guild ranks between 3 and 20 have more meaning, and having them be something that feels earned and more unique than simply getting full class, voting rights, etc. all at once. I'd also hope that people interested in the class for more than just the skills would feel like they have something to aim for in terms of being allowed to more fully embrace the RP.

Jensen

I want conflict systems in place that aren't just lessers. I don't care about foci or have a reason to care about foci. I'd like another war system, but I get why we don't have it.

I'd also like to see irl monthly ciem style raids/defenses of various locations across the realm that are tethered to specific groups conflicts. Winners get some boost for a bit, a fame line, and then the next month someone else gets a shot. You'd need some new coding to those areas which would make this likely not happen, and some involved admin to run it.

I don't see guilds working, they're having less and less purpose every year. Multiclass isn't really helping the matter either. Cities are gaining more influence and affect the rp and conflict of their members with the outside world to a much greater extent than guilds will. I just don't see their point anymore.

Drop guilds, make class depensing a quest mob, make tethers something more than black vs white.

Sarkis

I would like to see something strengthen and reinforce the role of Guilds and classes. My idea, in brief, would be to create a specialized end-game "boost" that is in effect, its own end-game race tied to the rank progression of a guild that is tailored to the particular skills of that particular class, allowing guilds to wield more influence by creating a stronger endgame potential for its members. The boost would be lost if they left the class, but it would not limit people who wanted a particular class set of skills. They simply would not be entitled to being super-charged by their primary guild skill. I'd say it would kick in somewhere around Guild Rank 10 or maybe 15, preventing people who merely want the boost from getting it without contributing to the organization sufficiently to get that particular boon. Barring a super-charged boost to endgame, other sorts of improvements could be considered, including a Guild only end-game race, special stat pack, ability to further improve their physical stats without using artifacts at higher levels (with a hard cap, of course) or an expansion on guild skills.

Furthermore, there would be boons to these Guild Paragons in terms of RP. For instance, the Sentaari could finally have a way to have an in-game mechanic to show what a person who has attained a high level of enlightenment and balance would be like by having a quasi-god-like form they could attain after reaching the proper guild rank as a reward for their service to the guild and their embodiment of its ideals and purpose. You could have super Teradrim rock and soil weirdness or demonic Carnifex, Flame-wreathed Daru or Luminaries. There could be some pretty cool stuff accomplished with this, and it'd help keep guilds more closely tied to their tethers and create a more vibrant environment for guilds, now that there'd be a reason to get a higher rank in your guild, beyond becoming a secretary or the guild master.

The key point here is to provide some tangible benefits to being a member of a guild and sticking through with it, in addition to just getting a class. Naturally there's advantages of like-minded people working together, but guilds in particular have nothing to keep people going after they get class and I feel this concept in some form or another could be an elegant solution.

Jensen

The only problem I see with that is after a while people would claim it is unfair to withhold gr10 or 15 and that the requirements for the reward should be standardized. Neat idea, likely won't happen unfortunately

Sarkis

It'd be entirely optional. They can do just fine outside their class' guild, but they won't get a nifty, guild-only end game race or boost or what have you.

As far as the upper ranks of a guild, it'd be hoped guilds might not be so goofy as to not permit people a reasonable opportunity to progress in their guild. The actual guild rank and such might have to be set as a guild priv, or something, allowing guilds to custom tailor it, or some testing done to see the best median, but the key to my whole position is that the game's mechanics offer practically no real benefits to being in a guild over that of being in a city, whereas cities have all manner of nifty little toys to prompt involvement.