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Power, Conflict, and Respect in OOC Communication
Warning: I probably will get vulgar at some point. It's likely spoilered but read at your own risk.
I'm NOT looking to continue the same conversation that Damariel (thankfully) closed - actually, I think there was an entire underlying conversation that was both ignored and not fully explored, which is how do we respectfully communicate across cultural lines both OOCly in Aetolia as well as out in our respective communities? Obviously this a very nuanced problem and addressing all of the intricacies of the issue is challenging, but let's do this.
This is not a stage for people to vomit vitriol! If you're immature and/or a troll who can't/won't have a conversation pertaining to sociological/psychological/historical influences in and out of Aetolia then move the hell on, this conversation is not for you!
Sociology and Social Work double major here, with a concentration in power and conflict. I also grew up in a multi-ethnic family. The man who raised me as his daughter is a Roman Catholic, Mexican, Black, and Native American man and my mother is a white and Native American Pentecostal woman. My ancestors walked in the trail of tears. My skin is white and I still have all the privileges that come with being white. I'm a Pansexual Buddhist, human. That's my lens in viewing this. I'm not telling you my identity as an appeal to authority, I'm letting you know the lens in which I'm viewing these issues. Consider yours as well.
First Things First (regarding USA RL interaction):
-We have to recognize that there is a dominant culture and Master Narrative in the United States.
Remember when this happened? No? What about this? What about this? I know you've heard about this shit. Hell, even this fits into the conversation
My point? These people and their cultures were all considered 'other', or outside of the master collective. They're all reflections of something that is covertly (or overtly, depending on how you look at it) systemically WRONG in the US. This isn't just anecdotal; black men in the US make up 40% of incarcerated persons and 1 out of 3 black men will have some kind of run-in with the law, this is true for 1 out of 5 Hispanic/Latino men, while only 1 out of 10 white men will have this problem.
-There are some groups that are more privileged than others.
Who's included in the MN? Well, who had the voting rights, the social power in their respective households, and positions in government since the country's conception?
Straight
White
Christian/Deist
Wealthy
Able-bodied
Men
And that was who the system was built to accommodate, everyone else along the way was an allowance, a progressive move to push us headlong into the melting pot, instead of asking us to stand on the side and hold the spoon. Put more eloquently by Takaki:
"The master narrative is the big story from which all the other stories emanate. The story of how the world works as viewed and validated by society. That is, how the world works as told by the dominant culture. The master narrative reinforces the "natural order" of the privileged position of the dominant by virtue of their class, race, gender, religion and nation. It maintains a pernicious classist, racist, sexist, nationalistic (and sometimes theistic) view that the non-dominant are inferior, a view quite often absorbed and internalized by the non-dominant themselves, whether they live in an inner city or a remote fourth world country.
If you were an anthropologist, you might view the master narrative operating as myths do. But I prefer to think of it as brainwashing, whether imparted around a campfire, in a grade-school history lesson, at a graduate-level seminar, by an endowed think-tank, on the evening news, or in the pages of an economic treatise. Stories derived from the master narrative resonate so profoundly in our psyches that we often don’t even recognize their power over us. For instance, Americans, especially white, male Americans of a certain generation, were taught by the master narrative to believe unquestioningly in our society as a meritocracy, so much so that they denied – and often still deny – their own privilege."
Common sense: you can be black and rich, poor and white, etc. So, privilege interacts differently based on the intersections of your identity so inb4 'But I'm totally oppressed too' argument.
Privilege is consistent, but how it is employed and interacts is based on the more broad cultures. As an example, the deep south would have a different style of communication than, you know, Yankeedom. However, privilege is still consistent because over all of these broad cultures is the aforementioned Master Narrative, and that's our media, our federal legal system etc.
-Oppression is like crabs, it spreads and spreads (and is very real). If you don't fit into the dominant culture or the MN, regardless of whether or not you want to recognize that you're scratching, if you also got f---ed by the system, you got it, bro. If you keep on using your dirty junk, you're infecting other people. Buy yourself some cream (or in this case, check yourself and get a clue), take care of that shit.
But seriously - remember that internalization of the MN that I quoted from Takaki? That totally applies here. Just because you know that one person who isn't offended, doesn't mean that all oppression is somehow subjective. There are still whole laws dedicated to limiting voting rights, as an example, so you're argument that your 'relative is totally not offended' doesn't hold weight - these corrupted systems are still very evident in our culture, whether your black cousin still wears the rebel flag on her t-shirt and flies it in her lawn or not.
Oppression also sucks because it furthers the will of those in power who embrace the master narrative. Much like the economy, our social interactions have ripple effects.
Before we go any further let's address one more thing: Intent vs. Impact.
When I have similar conversations I hear constantly, 'Well, you're just picking a fight because I didn't MEAN to be oppressive and you know what I meant'. Actually, I don't really care WHAT YOU MEAN, I care about what you did and ignorance isn't an excuse. It's your duty to educate yourself not the other way around so if you do something that someone else tells you is hurtful and otherwise counterproductive (oppressive!), you have accountability in that situation.
My favorite example (also in the article I linked to above):
You don’t know me, but I walk right up to you holding a Frisbee.
I wind up – and throw the disc right into your face.
Understandably, you are indignant.
Through a bloody nose, you use a few choice words to ask me what the hell I thought I was doing.
And my response?
“Oh, I didn’t mean to hit you! That was never my intent! I was simply trying to throw the Frisbee to my friend over there!”
Visibly upset, you demand an apology.
But I refuse. Or worse, I offer an apology that sounds like “I’m sorry your face got in the way of my Frisbee! I never intended to hit you.”
Sound absurd? Sound infuriating enough to give me a well-deserved Frisbee upside the head?
Yeah.
So why is this same thing happening all of the time when it comes to the intersection of our identities and oppressions or privileges?
The answer? It shouldn't and if it does, don't surprised if the power dynamic between you and the other person is uneven or if you simply 'don't get' why a relationship is going the way of VCRs.
^Also, just because someone says your behavior is problematic or disgusting, doesn't mean that YOU are problematic and disgusting.
IN RELATION TO AETOLIA:
If you haven't figured this out by now, we're never separate from our identities! We speak purely from the place of our experiences but all we know about each other, is what we see and that plays a valid part in the way we're interpreted and what groups we're a part of or that we have allyship to. However, it's the internet so we have to self-identify.
I'm NOT looking to continue the same conversation that Damariel (thankfully) closed - actually, I think there was an entire underlying conversation that was both ignored and not fully explored, which is how do we respectfully communicate across cultural lines both OOCly in Aetolia as well as out in our respective communities? Obviously this a very nuanced problem and addressing all of the intricacies of the issue is challenging, but let's do this.
This is not a stage for people to vomit vitriol! If you're immature and/or a troll who can't/won't have a conversation pertaining to sociological/psychological/historical influences in and out of Aetolia then move the hell on, this conversation is not for you!
Sociology and Social Work double major here, with a concentration in power and conflict. I also grew up in a multi-ethnic family. The man who raised me as his daughter is a Roman Catholic, Mexican, Black, and Native American man and my mother is a white and Native American Pentecostal woman. My ancestors walked in the trail of tears. My skin is white and I still have all the privileges that come with being white. I'm a Pansexual Buddhist, human. That's my lens in viewing this. I'm not telling you my identity as an appeal to authority, I'm letting you know the lens in which I'm viewing these issues. Consider yours as well.
First Things First (regarding USA RL interaction):
-We have to recognize that there is a dominant culture and Master Narrative in the United States.
Remember when this happened? No? What about this? What about this? I know you've heard about this shit. Hell, even this fits into the conversation
My point? These people and their cultures were all considered 'other', or outside of the master collective. They're all reflections of something that is covertly (or overtly, depending on how you look at it) systemically WRONG in the US. This isn't just anecdotal; black men in the US make up 40% of incarcerated persons and 1 out of 3 black men will have some kind of run-in with the law, this is true for 1 out of 5 Hispanic/Latino men, while only 1 out of 10 white men will have this problem.
-There are some groups that are more privileged than others.
Who's included in the MN? Well, who had the voting rights, the social power in their respective households, and positions in government since the country's conception?
Straight
White
Christian/Deist
Wealthy
Able-bodied
Men
And that was who the system was built to accommodate, everyone else along the way was an allowance, a progressive move to push us headlong into the melting pot, instead of asking us to stand on the side and hold the spoon. Put more eloquently by Takaki:
"The master narrative is the big story from which all the other stories emanate. The story of how the world works as viewed and validated by society. That is, how the world works as told by the dominant culture. The master narrative reinforces the "natural order" of the privileged position of the dominant by virtue of their class, race, gender, religion and nation. It maintains a pernicious classist, racist, sexist, nationalistic (and sometimes theistic) view that the non-dominant are inferior, a view quite often absorbed and internalized by the non-dominant themselves, whether they live in an inner city or a remote fourth world country.
If you were an anthropologist, you might view the master narrative operating as myths do. But I prefer to think of it as brainwashing, whether imparted around a campfire, in a grade-school history lesson, at a graduate-level seminar, by an endowed think-tank, on the evening news, or in the pages of an economic treatise. Stories derived from the master narrative resonate so profoundly in our psyches that we often don’t even recognize their power over us. For instance, Americans, especially white, male Americans of a certain generation, were taught by the master narrative to believe unquestioningly in our society as a meritocracy, so much so that they denied – and often still deny – their own privilege."
Common sense: you can be black and rich, poor and white, etc. So, privilege interacts differently based on the intersections of your identity so inb4 'But I'm totally oppressed too' argument.
Privilege is consistent, but how it is employed and interacts is based on the more broad cultures. As an example, the deep south would have a different style of communication than, you know, Yankeedom. However, privilege is still consistent because over all of these broad cultures is the aforementioned Master Narrative, and that's our media, our federal legal system etc.
-Oppression is like crabs, it spreads and spreads (and is very real). If you don't fit into the dominant culture or the MN, regardless of whether or not you want to recognize that you're scratching, if you also got f---ed by the system, you got it, bro. If you keep on using your dirty junk, you're infecting other people. Buy yourself some cream (or in this case, check yourself and get a clue), take care of that shit.
But seriously - remember that internalization of the MN that I quoted from Takaki? That totally applies here. Just because you know that one person who isn't offended, doesn't mean that all oppression is somehow subjective. There are still whole laws dedicated to limiting voting rights, as an example, so you're argument that your 'relative is totally not offended' doesn't hold weight - these corrupted systems are still very evident in our culture, whether your black cousin still wears the rebel flag on her t-shirt and flies it in her lawn or not.
Oppression also sucks because it furthers the will of those in power who embrace the master narrative. Much like the economy, our social interactions have ripple effects.
Before we go any further let's address one more thing: Intent vs. Impact.
When I have similar conversations I hear constantly, 'Well, you're just picking a fight because I didn't MEAN to be oppressive and you know what I meant'. Actually, I don't really care WHAT YOU MEAN, I care about what you did and ignorance isn't an excuse. It's your duty to educate yourself not the other way around so if you do something that someone else tells you is hurtful and otherwise counterproductive (oppressive!), you have accountability in that situation.
My favorite example (also in the article I linked to above):
You don’t know me, but I walk right up to you holding a Frisbee.
I wind up – and throw the disc right into your face.
Understandably, you are indignant.
Through a bloody nose, you use a few choice words to ask me what the hell I thought I was doing.
And my response?
“Oh, I didn’t mean to hit you! That was never my intent! I was simply trying to throw the Frisbee to my friend over there!”
Visibly upset, you demand an apology.
But I refuse. Or worse, I offer an apology that sounds like “I’m sorry your face got in the way of my Frisbee! I never intended to hit you.”
Sound absurd? Sound infuriating enough to give me a well-deserved Frisbee upside the head?
Yeah.
So why is this same thing happening all of the time when it comes to the intersection of our identities and oppressions or privileges?
The answer? It shouldn't and if it does, don't surprised if the power dynamic between you and the other person is uneven or if you simply 'don't get' why a relationship is going the way of VCRs.
^Also, just because someone says your behavior is problematic or disgusting, doesn't mean that YOU are problematic and disgusting.
IN RELATION TO AETOLIA:
If you haven't figured this out by now, we're never separate from our identities! We speak purely from the place of our experiences but all we know about each other, is what we see and that plays a valid part in the way we're interpreted and what groups we're a part of or that we have allyship to. However, it's the internet so we have to self-identify.
"To be awkward or unkempt, to talk or move wrongly is to be a dangerous giant, a destroyer of worlds...any accurately improper move can poke through the thin sleeve of immediate reality." - Erving Goffman
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
We have to self-identify, that shifts the power dynamic.
Obviously not everyone is from the US and likely have a different (not completely different, since world powers were, you know - all over the world and we're a byproduct of those world powers in history) culture, since cultures we've built as a result of historical influences are different. Therefore, the way we handle each other is going to have to be different. We need to break down the misinformation. Also, respect oocly is going to have to be a slow recognition that there are other cultures that don't perfectly connect with own and really the only way to foster respect isn't being PC - nothing ever came of being PC! - it's about asking ourselves whether or not we subconsciously or otherwise consciously foster an aetolian culture that furthers a system of oppression. I think those systems are going to have to be self-identified.
Random but -
This is totally worth the 8:36 of your life.
"To be awkward or unkempt, to talk or move wrongly is to be a dangerous giant, a destroyer of worlds...any accurately improper move can poke through the thin sleeve of immediate reality." - Erving Goffman