Gods and Gender

Auresae

This discussion was created from comments split from: Lore questions..

Mephistoles

I've been curious about this for a long time but I've never gotten a straight answer. Was the relationship between @Ivoln and @Dhar a sexual one? Were they in love?

As Teradrim lore (from the Dhaivol days) puts it as such. The god of death (Dhar) loved the hand of earth (Ivoln). This was the explanation for people burying their dead, in game at least. There is a lot of text speaking about the 'relationship' between the god of death and the hand of earth. My own take on it was that it was a homosexual relationship between two male gods. It seemed to make the most sense, seeing as love is frequently mentioned and that they're both male and they fused into one being, which seemed a like a rather apt metaphor for marriage between two gods.

So, what's up with that stuff? Do you guys in the pools have explanation beyond what we have in the game?

Lim

I tend to think that for non-mortals, sex and gender plays a small factor in love. Because they live for so long, the superficiality of appearance and carnal attraction gives way to the need for something deeper. Think Anne Rice's vampires that come across as bisexual because they seem indifferent to the gender of their love interest. Lestat falls for Louis because the latter represents a kind of innocence, not because he's a man.

Damariel

Putting it briefly: yes, Dhar and Ivoln were in love, and yes, their relationship can be construed as romantic and very possibly sexual. The exact details are obviously vague, but that it was romance is definite, indisputable fact.

The very first marriage in Aetolian history occurred between two male characters. That's a part of our lore I've always really liked.

Mephistoles

YES! Vindication! I knew it!

Also, thanks Damariel, for speaking truth and all.

Omei

Another fun fact: Omei hooked 'em up.

Ishin

I don't tend to think of the God's form of 'love' in the same sense as a mortal's form of love. In mortals it's a spiritual/biochemical reaction or whatever. I think that for the Gods, it's more a sense of alignment and an immense appreciation for the Other's actual -being-, rather than any concept of mortal love. Like two pieces of a puzzle fitting together or something, just on an existential level.

Damariel

Ishin said:

I don't tend to think of the God's form of 'love' in the same sense as a mortal's form of love. In mortals it's a spiritual/biochemical reaction or whatever. I think that for the Gods, it's more a sense of alignment and an immense appreciation for the Other's actual -being-, rather than any concept of mortal love. Like two pieces of a puzzle fitting together or something, just on an existential level.

Omei and I can definitely vouch that this depends on the God. Some tend closer to mortality than others...

Ishin

Damariel said:

Ishin said:

I don't tend to think of the God's form of 'love' in the same sense as a mortal's form of love. In mortals it's a spiritual/biochemical reaction or whatever. I think that for the Gods, it's more a sense of alignment and an immense appreciation for the Other's actual -being-, rather than any concept of mortal love. Like two pieces of a puzzle fitting together or something, just on an existential level.

Omei and I can definitely vouch that this depends on the God. Some tend closer to mortality than others...

Touche. I didn't even think of Khenarkha until you posted that.

Mephistoles

Omei said:

Another fun fact: Omei hooked 'em up.

Did @Omei actually play a role in it? I thought it was Virul and (the priestess whose name I'm blanking on) who helped get them together.

Iosyne

Ishin said:

I don't tend to think of the God's form of 'love' in the same sense as a mortal's form of love. In mortals it's a spiritual/biochemical reaction or whatever. I think that for the Gods, it's more a sense of alignment and an immense appreciation for the Other's actual -being-, rather than any concept of mortal love. Like two pieces of a puzzle fitting together or something, just on an existential level.

I just wanted to point out that @Ishin put this into words very nicely, with regards to how I've always interpreted it. Some of the situations Iosyne has been involved in the past are precisely like this.

Her pairing up with Severn is a perfect example of this: He obviously has a very significant role in the long game, one that She wanted a piece of. They're coupled up, and very staunchly allied as a result, with both Gods having a heavy investment in the Other.

Then of course there was that one famous little incident between Iosyne and @Ezalor where he proposed to Her, but his mortal form could not survive the "encounter" afterward. I see this as an expression of Her fondness for a mortal who so closely aligns with Her and epitomizes what She stands for.

Moirean

It's weird, because ICly/lore-wise I don't really think of the gods as being gendered. Moi has severe mommy issues and has been pretty misogynistic, but she adores Iosyne, because Iosyne isn't a woman, she's a god, if that makes any sense.

OOCly, though, as a female player, I very much like seeing the female gods played well. Video games in general tend to fall short in representing women well, so I love that Aetolia has a lot of female gods (please stop killing them off ), although I do at times wish they were stronger (that power level thing earlier in this thread with all the "male" gods at the top made me a bit sadface).

Xavin

@Moirean well there -was- a highish power female god but then she dendara'd.

Moirean

Haven said:

1. Varian
   
2. Severn and Lanos/Arion/Damariel
   
3. Haern, Dhaivol/Dhar, Lleis
   
4. Dhaivol/Ivoln, Rahn/Auresae, Galleus/Maghak, Slyphe and Niuri (?)
   
5. Iosyne, Omei, Chakrasul, Khepri/Ysmali
   

We've lost more than one female God, and Lleis was never top-tier. They popped some breasts onto Rahn, but then Dhaivol went and made two new dudes and Slyphe joined the bandwagon. The balance is getting a bit uneven: 4 girls to 7 boys, discounting Varian, and the chick gods are basically all in the bottom tier. Don't really want more gods killed off, though, so please don't read this as an assassination request!

I really miss Lleis. That sort of nurturing, creator role is a cool one. All the gods are all badass and stuff and that's cool, but it doesn't seem like there's a spot for the more peaceful and kind types anymore.

Toz

Varian, Lanos/Arion/Damariel, Haern, Dhaivol/Dhar, Lleis, Dhaivol/Ivoln, Rahn/Auresae, Galleus/Maghak, Slyphe, Niuri, Iosyne, Omei, Chakrasul, Khepri/Ysmali

Read this as an assassination request. Power to the people!

Serrice

ID-RETH, ID-RETH, ID-RETH, ID-RETH, ID-RETH, ID-RETH, ID-RETH!

Moirean

You guys are mean, I love that we have Gods! It's a really cool, special sort of interaction.

Omei

i'll rek u all

Haven

@Moirean: There are more gods than the ones we know. Remember, Albedos had some that we don't know much about beyond that they met some grisly end I think. There might even be more continents out there! Who really knows how big Aetolia's world is at this point?

Then there's probably other dimensions or maybe even creatures on the other planes that could qualify as gods. We've been getting hints at a ton of stuff about that Lanu Du thing and other ancient evils. Is the Shadow Mother a god in Her own right from the Shadow Plane? Are there other creatures like Her on the other planes as well?

The Angels and stuff probably have their own gods as well. Whatever the case, our list isn't by any means absolute.

Rashar

The only God you guys need to worry about is Rashar, God of Mischief.

Man, I really need to make him crazy and start believing that one of these days.

Samp

Rashar said:

The only God you guys need to worry about is Rashar, God of Mischief.

Man, I really need to make him crazy and start believing that one of these days.

I know some imps who'd have a field day over that XD

Mephistoles

Iosyne said:

Then of course there was that one famous little incident between Iosyne and @Ezalor where he proposed to Her, but his mortal form could not survive the "encounter" afterward. I see this as an expression of Her fondness for a mortal who so closely aligns with Her and epitomizes what She stands for.

I like that Iosyne, like many female spiders, mates and then kills.

Auresae

Moirean said:

4 girls to 7 boys, discounting Varian, and the chick gods are basically all in the bottom tier.

I, for One, am not complaining.

Ishin

..lol

Moirean

Haven said:

@Moirean: There are more gods than the ones we know. Remember, Albedos had some that we don't know much about beyond that they met some grisly end I think. There might even be more continents out there! Who really knows how big Aetolia's world is at this point?

Then there's probably other dimensions or maybe even creatures on the other planes that could qualify as gods. We've been getting hints at a ton of stuff about that Lanu Du thing and other ancient evils. Is the Shadow Mother a god in Her own right from the Shadow Plane? Are there other creatures like Her on the other planes as well?

The Angels and stuff probably have their own gods as well. Whatever the case, our list isn't by any means absolute.

That's kinda a cheesy cop-out for an gender imbalance and a skew towards a male-dominated pantheon at a design level. I'm not saying it's like a super serious problem, but I do think it's a quiet trend - combined with other things like Damariel's fridged GF or the Cotelle quest - to be a bit aware of.

Setne

Moirean said:

Damariel's fridged GF

Damariel?

Angwe

Setne said:

Moirean said:

Damariel's fridged GF

Damariel?

Fridged

tl;dr: A character is killed off in a gruesome manner and their body displayed to their loved one to cause emotional trauma.

Setne

I like my explanation better.

Moirean

Angwe said:

Fridged

tl;dr: A character is killed off in a gruesome manner and their body displayed to their loved one to cause emotional trauma.

Kinda. It's a bit more subtle than that - fridging is where the death/destruction/suffering of a loved one/place/thing/etc is basically just used to advance the story/motivations of a main character. Though, I suppose in Damariel's defense he didn't know Ishin was just gonna whack her like that.

Rashar

Didn't hear all the details of how that was resolved, but man. If I were Damariel I would just set up a trigger to zap Ishin every time he woke up from the death cycle. How do you just say, "K, we cool. You killed her but I'm over it. That was so last week."

That's the only thing iffy to me about rp like that. Realistically, that's not something you ever get over. I'm always curious as to how people deal with it, and what is expected. I've seen people do things and then get upset that they had consequences that lasted more than a week or two before, and it always kind of irks me.

Oh well. Off topic, my b.

Haven

Moirean said:

Haven said:

@Moirean: There are more gods than the ones we know. Remember, Albedos had some that we don't know much about beyond that they met some grisly end I think. There might even be more continents out there! Who really knows how big Aetolia's world is at this point?

Then there's probably other dimensions or maybe even creatures on the other planes that could qualify as gods. We've been getting hints at a ton of stuff about that Lanu Du thing and other ancient evils. Is the Shadow Mother a god in Her own right from the Shadow Plane? Are there other creatures like Her on the other planes as well?

The Angels and stuff probably have their own gods as well. Whatever the case, our list isn't by any means absolute.

That's kinda a cheesy cop-out for an gender imbalance and a skew towards a male-dominated pantheon at a design level. I'm not saying it's like a super serious problem, but I do think it's a quiet trend - combined with other things like Damariel's fridged GF or the Cotelle quest - to be a bit aware of.

Ehh... Let's ignore what we know of the gods for a second and say they indeed have a sex that's not just whatever mortal they've possessed at the moment: must there be a gender balance? I mean...considering how little if at all gender actually means in our game world, what would it matter? There are and have been lots of strong, independent female characters throughout Aetolian history on both a player and non-player standpoint that I'm not sure how this could be viewed as a problem big or small.