House upgrade: Shops

Moirean

I know it's been said that this won't be happening, but hear me out and consider reconsidering? With the HUGE range of crafting options we have, being able to toss a shop into a house lets us basically create really creative business options and RP hotspots - and gives house owners incentive to do it, and update/rotate stock, etc, instead of just sinking credits in for a bar that we see nothing back from. Make this something cities or orgs can buy as well, add in the fact that we can edit org buildings, and you have given us some self-sustaining RP hooks that are easy for players to create and edit.

Shops are a limited commodity and it's hard to really customize around them. Given how limited the space is, it basically costs us income to stock RP-ish stuff, so most of us are going to just stock what sells best. Letting us use shops+houses to get more unique and fun and customized craftings out there would make for some really fun areas to stumble across while travelling around. Look at the type of response we've seen from The Lover's Fling - people definitely like RP hotspots and will congregate in fun places, as these help inspire RP. Imagine a side street in Delos filled with different player restaurants! Fun places to go, and I bet you'd see cool stuff like restaurant row nights.

House upgrades like mobs and room features really would let us take the concept and make it really indepth and fun. Some examples of things we could make with these:
- Cafes, restaurants, fine dining, desert parlors, etc
- Wineries or breweries, complete with cool rooms like a vineyard (totally Faerah's idea and it's great)
- Theaters selling things like costumes or concessions
- Brawling pits or coliseums selling concessions
- Bookshops
- Boutique clothing shops/sweatshops full of Imps
- Toy workshops. Firework displays!
- Creepy curio shops/Knockturn Alley-esque shady merchants
- Music halls with instrument shops
- Dance studios
- Gambling halls
- Greenhouses and gardens selling floristry arrangements
- Art galleries
- ETC!

Faerah

I approve of @Moirean's message.

At the very least, let the 'bar' and 'restaurant' options (1) use a set number of custom items; and (2) provide a return for the owner. It does not even have to have a stockroom. Perhaps just a cache where the owner inserts the commodities needed to make whatever items are on sale and let them generate.

No curatives, no casks, no enchantments, no armor/weaponry, just custom crafting/talent type goods.

That way we're not adding more stockrooms that hold a billion non-decay items, the standard shops are still special and rare, and we can still have the fun RP aspect of it all.

Jensen

I want that so much; that being said it likely is a no

Eleanor

You can already get a set number of custom items; buying a shop addon for your house can use either bland stock Aetolia items, or your own designs as long as they're approved and all. You don't get a return, but if you just want the RP as you mentioned, Faerah, that shouldn't be a problem.

Moirean

You can't update them, though, whereas with crafting stuff you could change it often and have different themes or whatnot.

Lim

I don't get why it's an automatic no. These don't sound like they're money-making ventures that would mess with the 'economy', more like RP devices, which I reckon is what havens (and haven building) are for.

I like the idea, with the caveat that it doesn't take anything away from churning out what is already in the works.

Aelysia

I'm not truly opposed to the idea, but I think it would require some prior consideration before doing this. Shops being a limited commodity means they are actually valuable; in fact, if memory serves me correctly, an Enorian shop was sold for something like 3,000,000 gold recently. Some people have paid way, way, way more than that for portable market stalls. Opening up a shop option for houses would have an immediate effect on the value of all the shops currently in place (unless house shops were prohibitely expensive, which would sort of make the whole point of them moot).

How do you resolve that in a fair way? What about the people that already bought bars/resturants/mobs addons that sell stuff and now want a shop instead? Would these old house upgrades be refunded? Would it not be better to upgrade the bar/resturant/mob thingies so that the owner of the house is able to replace their wares with designs of their choice without having to go through the hassle of having Razmael or Oleis doing it?

I personally don't own a shop and I probably never will, but I do have a hard time seeing how this would effectively be put in place as purely a roleplay-enhancing feature and not a revenue-generating one (although perhaps this is intended). I sympathize with people that feel frustrated that they can not get a shop for a specific location, so I really think there is some merit to this idea.

Moirean

Being able to use craft shelves with the bar/restaurant option would be a pretty ideal middle ground. It would ensure there isn't a ton of items being added to the game, it would allow us to rotate in fun designs, and there could be a reasonable limit of stock (like 50-100 items) to make these far inferior to real shops. The biggest money-makers tend to be things that aren't on craft shelves (enchantments, refills, etc). Also, these would be inside houses, so they'd already be inferior due to location.

I think this would enhance revenue (for IRE, at least) a ton, too - people would be buying credits for the house, for the upgrade, for the craft skills, and it would promote overall RP and activity, which indirectly leads to more credit purchases.

Minarael

Oh man, shops have value. Shops will always have value. Even if they are more common. Shops have value because you can sell things out of them, not just because they are rare. Presently, the value of shops is imbalanced. It costs too much to acquire a shop for the time it takes to recoup that cost and earn money on them.

Also, what Moirean is suggesting is not full shops, it's limited, it's an outlet for crafters and a flavor thing.

Saybre

I approve. The Shapeshifter Hall I made in Delos is going to be partially public, and we have a taproom/tavern. Really wish it could be full-on Bar-esque (I like Kerryn's thing in the Black Flagon), but that was a custom thing that isn't even advertised/pricing, and is probably ridiculously high (Plus again, no profit/return). Which is why I and a few others were the ones who fought so hard to get that 3 mil shop in Eno. We had the scratch, and with people owning 3-5 shops, it really makes it near impossible to get one as they're rarely up for sale. Would have loved it if we could just get a shop in our Hall. If Eleanor is right, and I can buy the bar and use -my- brew designs, that would help a bit.

Would really like to get like a minishop, (Maybe half the stockroom or something?) Instead of 500 stock, make it maxed at 250, or even 200, but could still buy the expansion shelves (Arti sales go up, yeah? *nudge IRE * *nudge*). I know I'd save up for it, heck I worked out to buy this giant House specifically for a Pack dynamic thing, because I literally ran out of artifacts to buy.

If anyone knows me, I've always thought buying houses was a giant waste...and well, now I have nothing left to buy! So being able to add a mini-shop would be awesome. If you do the limit like I suggested, it would still keep the real, location-specific shops as the big commodity at the least.

Alice

I think for a high credit value and a very limited stockroom space (50 max), this would not undermine the value of Delos shops or any others. With the amount of Tradeskills in the game and the many types of objects to be customized for Roleplay devices, it is not unbelievable for someone to have private businesses which stock things more or less inappropriate to sell to the public. (I use inappropriate loosely, like selling a pink fluffy halberd in your personal shop vs. selling a razor sharp halberd in a guild shop/city shop.)

Moirean

I asked Razmael about getting something similar to what Kerryn had (I was sitting on like 2k credits and was willing to spend them on it) and he said it was something Galleus did and it's not something he's going to do again.

Faerah

My idea is a "crafting stall" of sorts. The stall could hold up to 25 various design templates submitted by its owner.

- The templates cannot be from forging, fletching or woodcraft.
- The stall has a cache where its owner must stock the commodities necessary for the templates to be sold.
- If there's a template that cannot be made based on the stall's cache - it cannot be sold.
- Stall owners would keep the profits of their stall (which would likely never amount to the cost of obtaining one).
- If they fail to adequately stock their stall's cache over a certain time, the stall closes and disappears from visibility. They would have to pay fee to re-open the stall.

Moirean

Why not woodcraft?

Faerah

I just figure vials/pipes/tinderboxes could be kept for the real stores as combat supplies/items that traditionally bring people into the bigger shops. I do not personally care either way, but since the idea is premised on shops keeping the necessary items that bring people in and stalls only selling RP-based crafts then woodcraft finds itself in a weird place.

Moirean

Well, woodcraft has RP stuff, too, like toys and wands and stuff.

Aishia

I thought wands were for enchanting.

Faerah

Moirean said:

Well, woodcraft has RP stuff, too, like toys and wands and stuff.

Well maybe then just a ban on certain templates that are more functional.

Xavin

Aishia said:

I thought wands were for enchanting.

Not anymore, apparently.