Pk

Sophastra

So I am dabbling in Aetolia. I came over from Avalon and I am really liking the skillset of Syssin. My main concern is that I can't code for toffee yet everyone I have spoken to suggests you need complex coding systems for decent pk play. In Avalon I exist on triggers and aliases mainly long handing a lot of stuff and I get by decently. My question is whether it is worth keeping going in Aetolia when my ability to code is non existent?

Sophastra

No idea how this became a main thread! Sorry!

Valingar

I'm going to be honest, even if you get a defensive system someone else made (there are quite a few available), I feel you need at least some understanding or willingess to learn scripting for top tier PK. That said, I wouldn't be too intimidated by it. You don't need any previous knowledge, there are a lot of people around who tend to be willing to teach - and what you do need to learn is fairly basic.

Syssin or venom-based classes in general may not be the best for manual use. I personally think limb classes (Zealot, Shapeshifter, Teradrim and Monk) are probably better if you don't want to automate any parts of your offense, or even something like Shaman or one of the mage classes. They are some bit more forgiving since you're not aiming for precise affliction locks and you can even manually watch what your enemy cures, if you're very sharp.

If you're willing to ignore 1vs1 combat, though, and focus on group combat, you can likely get by decently as a Syssin even without investing in learning to script offenses. Syssin has a lot of escapes and is very mobile. You can snipe paralysis or sensitivity arrows as syssin and abduct key individuals, even without any offenses whatsoever. This can be very useful for your group.

Tldr, I feel it's definitely worth keeping going. A few triggers can be all you need in a group. Getting involved in leyline fights is a great way to get a feel for group combat. You should definitely ask your city about those.

Ishin

Valingar more or less has said the most of it, Soph. I know several of us have been working with you a lot, and that's because we'd like to see new people stay. Especially in the Syssin! The tricky part of fighting 1v1 in-room as a Syssin is tracking afflictions, knowing which ones to apply, so on and so forth. It can get somewhat complicated at the way high stages, but even I started down at the bottom, and I like to think I'm probably the second best Syssin atm.

Valingar also brings up a good point about group fights and lesser leylines. Having Syssin to snipe and support your group is incredibly useful, and I know that probably a third of the time I do Lessers, I just stand by and snipe with @Lyl if she comes. One archer isn't usually too bad, but two or three and things start getting tricksy for whoever you're shooting.


Edit: For grammarrrrrrr T_T

Ilyon

As others have said, it really depends on what you want to be doing in PK. For group combat (foci and stuff), aliases and triggers will be enough if you get a defensive system from somewhere. For dueling, you'll likely need more than that, but it depends on class - syssin is one of the harder classes to be good at in 1v1, but team stuff can be much easier to start in.

Moirean

Aetolia lends itself much better to scripting than Avalon, so you'll find that optimal play at high-end is with scripting. There aren't things like soft poisons (think bukandas' half-asthma), stacking afflictions (think vomiting/anorexia) or cure lockouts (think allheale) so affliction combat is very much based around a linear cure order and pushing afflictions along that order. Things like rebounding (malloran) and shield (pentacle) are a binary choice - if they have it, you take it down, versus thinking about pushing or spitting. The result is predictable affliction stacking and yes/no choices for certain conditions (eg if they have rebounding, raze). Coding smart offenses means that you'll avoid hitting rebounding and hit with optimal afflictions (eg not hitting with ones they already have, etc). 

I won't sugar-coat it: Aetolia is a lot more code-heavy than Avalon. It's easier to automate, combat is spammier and faster and has far more afflictions, making it hard to manual. You don't NEED to code a fancy offense nor are the skills so incredibly complex that lots of code is the only way to use them, however you will do better with coding and almost certainly won't be a top tier fighter without it.

You hear gripes a lot about how much coding there is needed, but most come from either the standpoint of how it's daunting to complete newbs who don't know what a system is or from the coding needed at top level combat. For someone coming from another game who isn't new to MUDs completely, it's not as rough.

All this being said, our producers are in a completely different league from Genesis. They are professional and active, bugs get fixed, combat changes are discussed/tested/balanced, and they are always giving the playerbase events and new content. The game is beyond superlative to today's Avalon.

Periluna

Wow - it's been so long since I've heard anyone talk about Avalon. Brings back good memories of when Avalon was actually fun to play. 

Sophastra

Thank you all so much for such quick and helpful responses! I have really appreciated all the help and support that I have had from Ishin and you all so far. It is evident that Aetolia is highly professional and well-run, which is a huge draw. On the back of all of your comments, I will definitely give it a go, hopefully starting with group fights - I am more than happy to put in the grunt work, I was more concerned as to whether it was actually feasible to learn!

It is so lovely to know that there is such a supportive community out there and especially an admin who listens to the player-base and also that so many people are willing to answer what will I have no doubt will be a great many questions!!! Moirean - thanks so much for your post as well, asit really helped see where the differences lie and why coding is something I need think toabout learning. (And also, I have read a number of your other posts that have been profoundly useful - I already nicked your aliases for weapon wielding and poisoning!)

Are there specific coding systems that I can purchase to use with CMUD? If I wanted to get hold of an easy to use, basic curing system, where would I start? (Does something like this even exist?!). I love fighting for the fun of it and am not too fussed about dominating or being a top ranked fighter - just to get to a point where I can have a decent spar and be a worthy opponent, as well as have some fun in the process.

Thanks again for all your help - it really is appreciated!

Ashmer

I would recommend switching over to Mudlet in this case - I could write a thing about it, but it's by far and away best capable of handling what everyone else is talking about here. There are also several systems available, or soon to be available (shameless plug for Serenity here), that are specific to Mudlet.

Periluna

Gonna have to disagree on that, but if you want to stick with MUD then I'd recommend starting out with the system @Daskalos put on here. I'm on my phone right now so can't link the thread, but it's called The Duckie System.

Periluna

My phone won't let me edit. That's suppose to be "if you want to stick with CMUD"

Sophastra

Thanks Periluna, I'm on it!

Moirean

Yeah, please stop pushing mudlet so hard, just for everyone in general. I know people think it's a superior client, but what we have here is someone who's new to Aet and is comfortable using CMUD. Hook her up with a basic CMUD system to tide her over while she learns the basics of Aetolia. I keep seeing people push brand new players to pick up brand new clients as well and imho it's terrible for retention. There is only so much new stuff someone can handle at a time before it becomes overwhelming and stressful.

Ashmer

You make a damn fine point. I will instead wave my Mudlet flag at senior players that are still using cMUD.

Hey, Moirean, have you heard the Word of Mudlet yet?

Moirean

Someone needs to stay on CMUD to help the converts from other games. :P

Toz

In the far reaches of the Internet will the Elder Clients of man cower, for the world will no longer be theirs. In time they will be forgotten by all men. Their names not written down on any parchment or carved upon any tablet they will grow old to become mere shadows, eternally whispering of all they have lost.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Mudlet R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!

Ashmer

MUDLET R'LYEH

Fixed the image for you. ~Maghak.

Anyway, yeah. There are a couple of good systems for cMUD floating about. I know @Daskalos' works pretty well, I'm just not sure if that's freely available or not.

Ashmer

@Omei, @Maghak is competing for your throne.

Seriously I laughed out loud. That's the best.

Sophastra

Does anyone know if Duckie is designed to be used in conjunction with firstaid or without?

Daskalos

Without. It's a firstaid replacement meant to tick at real time versus the delayed timing of FirstAid.

Sophastra

Thanks - just got it downloaded (with a bit of help!) and am having a lot of fun playing around with it. Really appreciate the effort gone into putting this onto the forum, as I think it will really make a difference in helping me get to grips with things. Already noticing the difference versus firstaid - far more efficient! Thanks again.

Daskalos

You're welcome! If you optimize it and want to share it, feel free to put it as a link on the forums as well for others.