Duirnorian/Bloodreach combat

Riluo

It comes down to the players, they can sit on the same old bandwagon or they can jump off and change their path. However that is up to the individual to do, and those who want change and refuse to take the steps as it "might upset the status qua" are welcome to stay on the same bumpy ride to nowhere. I for one refuse to stick to the "light and dark" BS, or the shadow/light malarkey.  

An easy example is how I for one play Riluo not as evil, but as a zealot that must purge the world of the impurity that is mortality. He desires to gift all beings with immortality is driven only by his innate need to make all things equals. However from an outsiders view point his beliefs are not the same as those of the ethnocentric "lighter" who sees only their own views as pure and just. Whereby, Riluo sees his vision as pure and holy! Indeed, he would crush any city state if they opposed his zealot belief system.

My example is not relevant please more on >.>

Toz

I'm gonna just point at WWII. Russia+America/England vs Germany/Japan. Do Russia and America have lots of reasons to not get along? Oh yeah. But you know, you can kind of deal with that later, when the world's not at risk of being taken over by someone.

Moirean

@Haven, you keep missing the bigger point. As a cityleader, I'm not going to screw my entire city over just because a few people want conflict to be different or they want to try out a different sort of RP. How can you ever expect that Daskalos, for example, would turn Enorian against Duiran? That's just an irresponsible decision and it hurts the city more than it helps it - you lose fights, you alienate members, you push aside existing RP and friendships, you destroy relations to guilds - because of how conflict lines (very permanent and deep conflict lines) are.

Ezalor

I think Haven's point is just that there -was- a long period of time where Bloodloch and Spinesreach were fighting with each other and Enoduiran happily remain allied. Spinesreach -did- actively try to sever ties with Bloodloch and succeeded. He's saying that to claim the "axis alliance" as the sole (or even main) reason for their own alliance is a stretch, not that there's anything inherently wrong with maintaining such allied status.

Moirean

The numbers BL brings to the table means that Eno-Duiran need to stay allied even if Spinesreach isn't involved.

Ezalor

Nah, at that point in time we were getting dominated very hard by Enoduiran (both 1v1 and in teams) and even Spinesreach was holding their own against us at lessers. The balance of power started shifting when several new PKers sprung up in BL alongside me, then tipped all the way when our old PKers started returning as well.

Haven

Moirean said:

@Haven, you keep missing the bigger point. As a cityleader, I'm not going to screw my entire city over just because a few people want conflict to be different or they want to try out a different sort of RP. How can you ever expect that Daskalos, for example, would turn Enorian against Duiran? That's just an irresponsible decision and it hurts the city more than it helps it - you lose fights, you alienate members, you push aside existing RP and friendships, you destroy relations to guilds - because of how conflict lines (very permanent and deep conflict lines) are.

It's like you guys regard the decisions made in Aetolia to be absolute and final. It's a game. A story that develops. Taking a break from one arc to pursue another will not unravel everything. There's conflict. There's resolution. Bloodloch, Spinesreach, Duiran, or Enorian aren't going anywhere. The world won't suddenly vanish if they decide to attack their inherent allies. What will happen is that perspectives will shift. Friendships will be made stronger or broken. Bonds will form. Bonds will break. Characters will develop. Grow. Evolve. Become more complex. Interesting. Whatever you want to call it. The cycle continues...

I know the issue of how stale the <insert side here> seems to be or how boring it can get crops up from time to time amongst some of you but do you ever consider that this might be part of the reason why? The staleness that seems more prevalent on the Light side (perhaps even more specifically Enorian since Duiran does manage to change itself up from time to time) might in part be due to the fact that a lot of you are unwilling to ever change. It strangles the story. It stifles activity. It hinders roleplay. It's hard to stay motivated with an arc/storyline when nothing changes. Just a thought.

Moirean

It's not just RP you mess with, though. You hurt your org's health by losing ylem perks, driving off members because they have to pick sides, etc etc. There's not a GOOD way to turn on our existing allies right now. In Lusternia that type of stuff ally breaking worked better because guild membership was tied to cities so you didn't have cross-org splits like we do know, but I frankly didn't like that as much. 

As things stand, there's absolutely no way I am ever going to put my orgs in the dramatic, tiring situation of making Carnifex, for example, have to kill their guildmates. That's just not good for an org and not fun for players, and the lasting effects are incredibly tiring. Overall gameplay > short term RP.

Haven

Moirean said:

The numbers BL brings to the table means that Eno-Duiran need to stay allied even if Spinesreach isn't involved.

That's not entirely accurate. Enorian and Duiran both have the numbers from what I am able to tell. The problem mainly seems to stem from the fact that of those numbers, not enough are interested in PK to match the number of people in Bloodloch that are.

Hence why I was asking for solutions and or methods to attracting more PKers or motivating the noncombatant Lighters to become combatants. Then somehow we got sidetracked back to the blame game (which is largely BS imo).

Draiman

Yeah, you don't @Haven. Motivate people, at least. There's this BS lie about all combat everywhere in this game being 100% automated, and some people don't know what #gag or deleteLine() is, so the spam and lies about automation turn people off.

This post was not meant to spark another argument about automated combat in Aetolia. Just my two cents on why you're not going to motivate non-pkers to become PKers.

Trager

And this conversation has returned to where it started. (Thank god.) I would very much like to brainstorm ideas for what Haven has mentioned above me. History, what has happened in the past, etc really doesn't interest me nearly as much as what is happening right -now-. While I was never around to see the opposite for the shift in power we have right now, I can say that currently combat (Lessers/Event PK/Bounties) are downright depressing to engage in, at least for myself. On tapping a Lesser I can have 4 people with me, but it is literally just a matter of time before 8 show up to take it. Even looking back at the Slyphe vs Chak event we had last week; We started with but two people dying over and over again for the sake of 'RP' because we simply couldn't have our characters just sitting down and saying "Fuck it!" Granted, we had many, many numbers at the end of it, moreso then the opposition at times, but we -still- got creamed. A lot of that is our own faults for not trying to 'take charge' or 'teach the masses' but than I'm not finding a shocking amount of people with any interest in combat other than filling the position of autobasher for as long as it takes them to die with us at a lesser.

 

All in all this just turned into my own personal rant about how unfulfilling combat has turned into for me, but I would still like to try and figure out something that could even out the severe balance issues we have in 'willing' population.

EDIT: Or just nerf BB plz.

Draiman

Edit: Gracias.

I will give you a quick tip though. Eat Kelp.

Haven

Trager said:

And this conversation has returned to where it started. (Thank god.) I would very much like to brainstorm ideas for what Haven has mentioned above me. History, what has happened in the past, etc really doesn't interest me nearly as much as what is happening right -now-. While I was never around to see the opposite for the shift in power we have right now, I can say that currently combat (Lessers/Event PK/Bounties) are downright depressing to engage in, at least for myself. On tapping a Lesser I can have 4 people with me, but it is literally just a matter of time before 8 show up to take it. Even looking back at the Slyphe vs Chak event we had last week; We started with but two people dying over and over again for the sake of 'RP' because we simply couldn't have our characters just sitting down and saying "Fuck it!" Granted, we had many, many numbers at the end of it, moreso then the opposition at times, but we -still- got creamed. A lot of that is our own faults for not trying to 'take charge' or 'teach the masses' but than I'm not finding a shocking amount of people with any interest in combat other than filling the position of autobasher for as long as it takes them to die with us at a lesser.

 

All in all this just turned into my own personal rant about how unfulfilling combat has turned into for me, but I would still like to try and figure out something that could even out the severe balance issues we have in 'willing' population.

EDIT: Or just nerf BB plz.

Feel free to contact me at any point to discuss/receive help with combat. I love brainstorming with peeps when I can if I'm available. Be it the forums, messaging, tells, webs, Frontline, whatever. I'm always willing to help.

Serrice

Haven said:

Moirean said:

The numbers BL brings to the table means that Eno-Duiran need to stay allied even if Spinesreach isn't involved.

That's not entirely accurate. Enorian and Duiran both have the numbers from what I am able to tell. The problem mainly seems to stem from the fact that of those numbers, not enough are interested in PK to match the number of people in Bloodloch that are.

Hence why I was asking for solutions and or methods to attracting more PKers or motivating the noncombatant Lighters to become combatants. Then somehow we got sidetracked back to the blame game (which is largely BS imo).

Her comment is entirely accurate. Don't mistake 'numbers' for the entire population of the org. Numbers implies the combat population that's interested and willing to PK, as you go on to further elaborate.

Aarbrok

I think honestly if we had the playerbase to handle it, which I do not think we do.

Another faction would be nice.

Xavin

Once upon a time there were four cities and the duiran council. It ended up being Ashtan, Enorian, Duiran v Spines nad Bloodloch. It was a necessity that Bloodloch and Spines stick together because at the time spines was smallish/had few pkers and there was this organization...Unity in Life I think? That held the three life-side orgs together.

Irruel

@haven
I find a lesser now, and I struggle to get 2 people to come help with it. Most of the time 1-2 of those are not from Duiran. So if I started crap with Enorian and we couldn't fight together, what chance would I have in the daily fights with Bloodloch?

As you said - more pvpers please.

I've been trying to motivate/teach pvpers since early Achaea. I nearly always seem to end up in the underdog city/guild - mostly, I prefer this. Occasionally I've been successful at inspiring/teaching, but mostly just because I got lucky and found someone that wanted to pvp already. When I was myself learning to fight, I struggled with it for months. It wasn't until I made an alt char in a very pvp-centric guild with a strong teaching community that I was able to figure it out. (much love to Skarash, Tranquility, Element etc from the early Achaean Kharon, and later Ashura monks. You guys rocked.)

Bloodloch supposedly IS that at the moment. It's hard to create though. I know there are people that are happy to help and be part of those sorts of clans/webs on the life side (I'm one for whatever that is worth with my current ability, and there are plenty of people like Valingar, Aishia, Haven, Daskalos etc), but webs are too hard to find.

It needs to be in clans so that people not actively seeking it can listen in and get inspired. It's a bit sad to see Duiran with a good half dozen capable people (like Trager) that just can't be bothered because they've gotten bored or whatever it is. I wish I knew a way to fix that, but even if I did, I doubt I could achieve it - not with 1-2 hours playtime a day.

Calipso

Aarbrok said:

I think honestly if we had the playerbase to handle it, which I do not think we do.

Another faction would be nice.

Oh dont pull on my heartstrings, but if ever a new faction was to be born into Aetolia, I think the only thing that would fit now is a neutral non-violent faction. I always admired the concept of Delos and it being purely a merchant-trader city. This would allow the general non-combants and players that arent interested in the warring disagreements of the cities to seek out a place to live as they would. Of course such a place would have to have 'restricted PK' in that it is pureply a faction for RP and wouldnt involve  itself in battles.

Haven

@Irruel: I suppose a clan might work... I'd say we use the Frontline or something but so many people just tune it out already. And I'm not too keen on using up another slot. But I'm up for giving it a shot.

Nalor

Haven said:

We need to figure out how to get more people interested in participating for the Light side. I was going to suggest offering credits but after crunching some numbers.... Currently, while Enorian's reward system is waaaaayyyy better than Bloodloch's reward system, Enorian is super duper poor.

Bloodloch almost has triple the amount of city credits available than Enorian does and -one- of Bloodloch's ministries has more gold than the entirety of the city of Enorian. Let me repeat that. A single branch of Bloodloch's government is richer than Enorian as a whole.  I... There's just no words. So, offering large rewards isn't really an option right now for Enorian. Unless their playerbase is feeling really, really generous which I'd rather not force upon them. So what are some ideas to get people motivated to fight in Enorian?

My Rage about lifer side of things, is the whole of OOC text I get when bashing so I quit all the clans considering I was told it was a leyliner/semi ooc clan not a full out ooc clan where people talked about everything.. No point turning cltoff as I still miss combat so I just quit it..

I just bug Valingar nowadays if I see a leyline tapped otherwise I dont bother. as I dont fancy a wall of text while busy doing other things.

Haven

Nalor said:

Haven said:

We need to figure out how to get more people interested in participating for the Light side. I was going to suggest offering credits but after crunching some numbers.... Currently, while Enorian's reward system is waaaaayyyy better than Bloodloch's reward system, Enorian is super duper poor.

Bloodloch almost has triple the amount of city credits available than Enorian does and -one- of Bloodloch's ministries has more gold than the entirety of the city of Enorian. Let me repeat that. A single branch of Bloodloch's government is richer than Enorian as a whole.  I... There's just no words. So, offering large rewards isn't really an option right now for Enorian. Unless their playerbase is feeling really, really generous which I'd rather not force upon them. So what are some ideas to get people motivated to fight in Enorian?

My Rage about lifer side of things, is the whole of OOC text I get when bashing so I quit all the clans considering I was told it was a leyliner/semi ooc clan not a full out ooc clan where people talked about everything.. No point turning cltoff as I still miss combat so I just quit it..

I just bug Valingar nowadays if I see a leyline tapped otherwise I dont bother. as I dont fancy a wall of text while busy doing other things.

Aw, that's too bad. In my experience, both on the Light and Dark side, combat/tech talk happens a midst or between silly OOC talk. That's where the bonding happens typically.

Irruel

I feel much the same way, though I haven't quit the clans.
I don't want to use another clan slot for this either - but I'd like to see Dion/Frontline enforced as combat ooc only.

Areka

@Irruel - noted. I'll add a comment to my conduct CLHELP and try to keep a better eye on it, and encourage people to hop to webs to chatter.

Daskalos

Xavin said:

Once upon a time there were four cities and the duiran council. It ended up being Ashtan, Enorian, Duiran v Spines nad Bloodloch. It was a necessity that Bloodloch and Spines stick together because at the time spines was smallish/had few pkers and there was this organization...Unity in Life I think? That held the three life-side orgs together.

UiL was created to help push along the polarization.of the game... before the Polarization, you had the Northern Alliance of Reach\Ashtan\Duiran with Eno\Loch standing alone. Eno actually got left out to dry several times by Duiran during this period as Loch leaned on Reach to make it happen. UiL brought together every life aligned guild, order, and city in a mutual defense pact. I spent probably hundreds of hours hashing out the treaties with all the various cities\orgs\guilds, it was a massive undertaking. When I resigned as Vanguard and quit playing for a while, something happened in UIL and it became an offensive organization instead of a defensive Pact - and that is when it got it's bad name.

As for OOC combat help and talk, I created a clan specifically for this in the Luminaries, but opened it up to the entire realm (CLANHELP TRAINING). Unfortunately, no one seemed to want to join. The tools are there, but no one uses them.

Haven

We're all congregating into the Frontline clan, right? >_> And it's largely OOC, right?

Kaeus

The nature of people is to group up into whatever will help them win. While I think a system that allows for no city ties but a neutral city, and simply some grouping mechanism that encourages conflict and competition would be amazing, I can see it degrading into larger groups unless size was mechanically enforced. Then again, it would not really be Aetolia anymore...

Daskalos

Haven said:

We're all congregating into the Frontline clan, right? >_> And it's largely OOC, right?

The problem is people join FrontLine to Ylem and don't want the talk that comes with it. Training was built to be the place for that talking. If the talking is in one clan, people might leave FrontLine on if it's only Ylem related, whereas right now people miss everything because they keep it off to run away from the chatter.

Haven

Daskalos said:

Haven said:

We're all congregating into the Frontline clan, right? >_> And it's largely OOC, right?

The problem is people join FrontLine to Ylem and don't want the talk that comes with it. Training was built to be the place for that talking. If the talking is in one clan, people might leave FrontLine on if it's only Ylem related, whereas right now people miss everything because they keep it off to run away from the chatter.

I just want to know which clan we're actually flocking to so I know what I'm quitting. Is it the training one then?