Lycan class convo

Arbre

Too lazy to move posts from the other thread.

Toz

Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaw

Aishia

Shed shed shed limb damage SO MUCH LESS TAKING OF IT, I'm Ezalor. UNICORNS SHED.

Saybre

Meh, anyway. Some things I wish I had thought of during Liaisons as potentials:

Ability to have Bay usable on each combo (or every other) if you forego active howls
 - The trade-off being you have a smaller pool of available howls to bay/bellow. So it isn't just 'prone/paralysis' every damn round.

Elongated claws
 - Practically no use now, before was an accuracy thing, now they're slow as snot, do less damage than retracted, and the bleed damage isn't that much more significant. (The speed is what makes it near useless)
 - If this was changed to be same speed retracted or elongated, but would keep up the bleed with the reduced flat damage I might actually use it for going for a haemophilia kill. As it is, I'd rather pull of haemo and just use slashing instead.


Bodypunch/Spinalcrack
- Once comboing gets fixed, I'll rarely have a reason to use bodypunch, as spinalcrack(paralysis) does exactly what I want to accomplish(stall parry), except it also deals more targetted torso damage. At the moment there's a fractional chance of paralysis being cured before my 2nd claw attack hits(latency, whee).

Flurry
- God this skill is -amazing-, but it is too damn slow to use more than an initial opener to get a feel for parry location. I understand three attacks in one go is a lot.....*cough* tekura *cough*. It -kinda- makes up for it by having such high limb damage to where it hits, which is great, but kinda falls onto how a lot of Carnifex abilties are. They hit HARD, but are so slow to recover from, that it leaves your defense wide open, and hard to keep up pressure even still. If it got changed to do 3 limbs at something like 3.5s (versus static 4.25s with roughly 9.26% damage against hardened) with say 6% limb damage across the board (Non-hardened bones). That'd be awesome to get things built up a bit more.

- Possible change, just create flurry to be a focusable combo for x2 claw/bite. Like a tekura combo, with bite acting like a 'kick' and dealing the most damage, the subsequent 'claw attacks' dealing less damage than the straight claw combos. (Roughly 5.15% limb damage) to more akin to Tekura punches (2-3% I think? Been a while.) This would also be nicer for salivate to do a bit more when biting. Then in this way elongate/retracted claws could have more benefit (Retracted flurry smack is more limb damage, elongated dealing more bleed which would be able to stack with salivate bleed damage)

Howls
Lupines (Wolves) have belonephobia
Ursines (Bears) have anorexia.

This seems so bass ackwards, bears are the lighter equivalent and have the affliction against..living. While wolves are the darker side equivalent, and have the affliction against undead..(the anti-vampire bit seems to be a thing of the past).

Now considering the recent liaison report by @Ezalor for getting undead/living venoms in line to do the same thing, maybe howls to do the same?

-Also would be nice if the AB HOWLING was structured far more nicely, preferably a third column to actually list the affliction, instead of having to build your own help file/echoes etc to know which is which. It's a bit intimidating to new players to have to coordinate what is what.

Ezalor

Both belonephobia and anorexia give the anorexia affliction so it doesn't really matter. Belonephobia doesn't actually exist as an aff anymore.

Ashmer

Small point, but anorexia and belonephobia have already been merged. If you afflict someone with belonephobia, and they're living, it'll give them anorexia.

 

I know this is true for venoms and Mentis, but it might be worth testing for howls.

Saybre

Just tested, does give anorexia.

Thanks!

Xiuhcoatl

@Saybre depending on the class you're fighting, it can be more feasible to just spam flurry against them. That's for slow build up classes, like monks, teradrim, and the like. Because the speed of flurry hasn't been changed, but healing has been slowed down. Hence, flurry received a buff. Hitting 3 limbs for 12.5% limb damage static means that it's one of the best ways to beat pre-restoration. Even more so because you're dealing it to three limbs at a faster balance time than pre-restore. However, with lag taken into account, it should actually be they finish pre-restoring and you flurry again. So they should always be significantly behind. 

On a side note, it doesn't really seem like a good idea at anytime to use bodypunch or spinalcrack. It gives them paralysis and lets you hit a limb of your choice. However, it comes at a pretty large balance cost compared to a regular claw. So long in fact, that the benefits of using it aren't that great unless you're going for a bleeding kill. It should be noted that brainsmash is still the best instantkill for lycans. So, if you're going for another one, you're making more work for yourself than there needs to be. 

Also on a side note, why does everyone forget lag when talking about equations? I understand that it screws with equations, but it's important to understand that reducing or increasing balance times does nothing to the addition delay of your input being received. IE, increasing balance times overall lessons the effect of lag on combat because it's static. Lowering the balance times of skills increases the effect of lag, also because it's static. Lag helped out lycans a lot, because with a latency of .1 seconds, every 10 seconds you missed a mending cure. IE, adding all the .1 together. Now it's every 11 for a missed mending. 

Saybre

The problem with flurry is that you're off balance for so long (4.25s) you're so madly open to attack and setup, can't stand when off balance, so if you're proned, you're open to impale/bbt etc. Which is why unless you're in a group setting (bunch of lycans or the like), it's too damn dangerous to mess with, even with the overall slow down. It did get buffed in that the speed didn't change, but it's still to slow to use terribly often, especially due to the random targetting of the attacks, you could potentially be smacking a parried limb multiple rounds (not all 3 hits, but at least one nullified).

If it kept with the random-ness, but sped up a bit it'd be far more viable to get an overall resto build for easier multi-breaks. Hence I use it as an opener sometimes to both get a build on limbs and to determine current parry location.

Aishia

I thought flurry bypassed parry.

Xiuhcoatl

@Aishia It does.

Oleis

Flurry receives a balance reduction and damage increase with the revamp. Elongation and retraction are removed with the benefits of both being rolled in automatically. The anorexia and belonephobia howls are indeed merged.

Saybre

@Oleis Good to hear!

As for Flurry, I swear at point it did hit parry, or maybe I'm just thinking I used it to float their parry..(that was probably it). Just making me more anxious for changes!

Pretty much answers my questions/suggestions pretty well. Oleis, you're too good to me.

Ashmer

Actually, using flurry that way is a good idea. Since most automatic parrying is fairly predictable, you can use it to get a baseline for where they're going to want to parry, and start predicting it, instead of starting with no knowledge of where they're parrying and going for a claw/rend/hamstring/whatever it is you're going to do.

 

I hope Werecroc instakill is a death roll. Just sayin'.

 

@Oleis-bian 4 lyfe.

 

 

Irruel

Flurry used to hit parry, way back. It was changed in a liaison round.

Ferrik

Ashmer said:

I hope Werecroc instakill is a death roll. Just sayin'.

Ohai there!

Saybre

The sale of flood rings SKYROCKETS.

*flood room*
Jawlock FACE of FERRIK
*wait*
*DEATHROLL FERRIK*
*channeled torrential spin in water, drowning, bruising and exhausting target.*
*Target loses 20% health every 5 seconds, endurance cut by 15% each round.*
Taken to a watery death by Saybre, Ferrik has succumbed to the death roll.

Arbre

Suddenly considering going werecroc instead of wolf - the idea of werecroc groinrip is HORRIFYING me.

Oleis

Ferrik said:

Ashmer said:

I hope Werecroc instakill is a death roll. Just sayin'.

Ohai there!

We're not adding any type-specific instakills, but I will neither confirm nor deny the existence of a deathroll ability.

Ferrik

Oleis said:

We're not adding any type-specific instakills, but I will neither confirm nor deny the existence of a deathroll ability.

Harr harr, I see what you did there!
I'm content!

Saybre sucks though.
(He forgot the limb breaks, bruising? Ha. Do you even crocodile mate?)
One crocodile love bruh!

Irruel

Saybre said:

Taken to a watery death by Saybre, Ferrik has succumbed to the crocodile roll.

fixed.

Edit: that might be a bit obscure.
You tube crocodile roll and listen to the painfully dated John Williamson song that should be somewhere near the top.

Arbre

Kinky.

Xiuhcoatl

If you jawlocked something's face and did a deathroll, you'd snap the neck on the first roll and maybe rip the head off on the subsequent rolls used to eat them. Similar if you did it to a limb of a human. It'd tear the limb off. In order to get a drowning kill, you'd have to jawlock the torso of something. Even then the force of the bite would most likely make their guts and bones get pushed up/down enough to kill them. However, it's a 50/50, so if the bite doesn't kill them, then the drowning would.

Ashmer

Xiuhcoatl said:

If you jawlocked something's face and did a deathroll, you'd snap the neck on the first roll and maybe rip the head off on the subsequent rolls used to eat them. Similar if you did it to a limb of a human. It'd tear the limb off. In order to get a drowning kill, you'd have to jawlock the torso of something. Even then the force of the bite would most likely make their guts and bones get pushed up/down enough to kill them. However, it's a 50/50, so if the bite doesn't kill them, then the drowning would.

WORDIEST DEATHSIGHT EVAR:

 

Xiuhcoatl has died. You can't quite discern if he drowned or hemorrhaged to death internally. It's a 50/50, but he's for sure dead. Ferrik did it.

 

On that note, has anyone actually experimented with howls besides the paralysis/stupidity/anorexia round, besides Xiuhcoatl? I can definitely see the logic of it, but there's so many other options available to you. What about Baying?

Toz

I used to save baying for knockdown, to prone with 1 leg broken so I didn't have to destroy. Baying is kind of situational, really - and sheer numbers weigh very, very heavily for stupid/anorexia/paralysis to a high degree. Though I also liked knockdown/disrupt/confusion.

Amberlea

Baying is longer eq than balance when rend/hamstring, has a mega long cooldown, so it is not always good to bay all the time.

Also, BB wisp shielding while prone with two broken arms is beyond lame. Fights are a draw, best case scenario.

We have lots of howl options, most of which do not do anything for our kill method at all. Push plant/slice balance... but for why....

Ashmer

Also, since when can Lycans Leap indoors? o.O

 

Edit: Actually, after testing, the rooms in question are set sunless but outdoors. Nevermind!

Ferrik

Xiuhcoatl said:

If you jawlocked something's face and did a deathroll, you'd snap the neck on the first roll and maybe rip the head off on the subsequent rolls used to eat them. Similar if you did it to a limb of a human. It'd tear the limb off. In order to get a drowning kill, you'd have to jawlock the torso of something. Even then the force of the bite would most likely make their guts and bones get pushed up/down enough to kill them. However, it's a 50/50, so if the bite doesn't kill them, then the drowning would.

Thaaaaaaank yooouuu!

I like you.

Angwe

What, no disrupt?

Xiuhcoatl

@Amberlea baying with a crown is feasible, but should be used correctly for blurry_vision to push their salves harder than you would normally. Alternatively you can bay disrupt to be a unicorn. The cooldown is annoying and should be moved off the shared cooldown of howling. In reality, it might be a good idea next liaison round to liaison baying to be free of cost, but still use the thirty second cooldown. As all it really does is punish people for not getting/having a crown.

@Angwe disrupt is situational. If you're using the correct howls and you're attacking correctly you shouldn't need to disrupt them in order to slow their offense. As their offense would be normally slowed down anyway by your method of fighting. The only way to stop a lycan from gaining ground also stops the person from gaining ground. This produces a deadlock. Which the lycan will usually lose due to the nature of how much endurance and willpower they go through in relatively short periods of time. That and lycans are very squishy by nature. Main problem with the class and why I stopped playing it so much was because I was getting damage bashed to death by far too many classes. I really need to invest in defensive artifacts. 

@Ashmer, if you split up the damage ticks to one blunt/true and one cold, provide different notifications on each, you'll know which one killed them. IE, you do the deathroll and then drown them for a bit. They try to get away, and you deathroll and then drown them again.

@Ferrik, I always thought the deathroll was what killed them or the bite. I didn't know that drowning was actually a method crocodiles used to kill certain prey that was roughly as large as them. Nor did I know that the other purpose of the deathroll on these large creatures was to disorient them. It makes sense, if they manage to flip the creature a few times, it would be pretty dazed and confused. I know I sure would be after getting flipped a few times. 

Ishin

Your form is granting you an innate resistance to magic.

^ does nothing for my audit. Does it do nothing if your skills are past a certain amount or is it a bug??