Handling of Brand New Players

HavlokHavlok USAMember Posts: 2
Greetings all! Hope you are well.

I'd like to share my experience as a completely fresh no-nothing player who discovered this game yesterday. Apologies for the length of the post.

I started my first Aetolia character (consanguine) and after excitedly completing the tutorial (omg theres MUSIC??? omg theres a badass UI??? awesome!) I find myself completing the 3rd intro task, which was "Find a mentor". Makes sense, I think to myself. I have been playing for 30 minutes at this point. I ask on newbie for anyone willing to mentor a young vamp and get tells from Rijetta and Neoma, both fellow vamps. Both offer help, Neoma in the form of some useful help files about the Vamp houses and some info about the perks of joining house Brouchard and that they have available Sires. Rijetta offered to meet up with me. Great!

I replied to both; Neoma seemed to have gone inattentive, while Rijetta met up with me, took me to the Vamp HQ, and give me some history and background on the houses. Seemed logical as a new vamp. This was the first I'd learned of vamp houses, sires, and a few other things. After proceeding to read the help files recommended by Neoma on the houses and after upwards of an hour of RP with Rijetta (where she explained all 5 houses, what they're about, and answered many of my questions) I had joined house D'Baen and gained a mentor, Huzzah! All was going very well. Little did I know that my actions in these dawning hours of my Aetolia experience apparently angered Neoma and would have OOC consequences on my attempts to learn and understand the game.

After my first session, I spent numerous hours reading forum posts (new an old alike) on mobile whilst I could not play, excited to learn more about the meta and general info about the game. After finding a 2017 thread called "Vampire Theoretical" and reading it in it's entirety, I had a few questions.

I logged in on day 2, with many academy quests and intro tasks still to complete. Still quite green. I /tell Neoma, the only person I've actually interacted with who's online, and ask for a quick OOC conversation before I dive in to the game.

She agrees, and I tell her that before I excitedly and happily invest a good bit of time (and some $ for lessons to support the game ) into my character I have a few general Meta questions. (The fact that'd I've played the game for a total 3-4 hours at this point is mentioned.) Such as:

1. I read there were a bunch of vamp changes being made- are those finished, or should I wait to try vamp (whos lore really excites me) until the newest wave of changes are complete.

2. I asked for confirmation that 'bashing' was simply 'hunting mobs'. I assumed that from the post's context but wasn't 100% on that

3. I read that many vamps switch to other classes (Carnifex, Teradrim) for bashing and im some cases feel "stuck" having to bash as a vampire when they class-switch. Since I plan to spend a majorty of my time 'bashing' I asked if she thought vamps were weaker in that regard.

4. Mentioned PK is something I'd like to do many moons from now and I heard vamps were good at that, asked if she could give her opinion or simply confirm/deny.

5. Lastly, what are some good zones to explore/clear once I finish the intro stuff to get my feet wet?

That was it, relatively straightforward questions or so I believed. Was simply excited to get some answers and get to working on my character. I /tell these questions to Neoma in a few short paragraphs after she agrees to speak with me.

Here is a paraphrase of ensuing conversation:

[Her]: Most of the vamp changes are in, but not all of them are quite done yet. Why haven't you asked any of these questions to Rijetta or people from your own house?

[Me]: Cool... Uhhh well I just logged on to play for the few allotted hours I have today away from the family, and you're the only other person online I've interacted with. No one from D'Baen is online and neither is Rijetta.

[Her]: well I am IC mad at you for not taking time to really read up about all the houses as I recommended, and for just choosing on a whim to join Rijetta's house. (She also made a comment about how Rijetta probably just sniped me up into her house without a second thought and without properly telling me about the houses. These are 2 completely false assumptions on her part)

I tell her this directly. No one else is online from my house or that I have met. I am 3-4 hours old in this game still doing the intro tasks such as: LOOK AT YOURSELF and "put stuff in your bag and remove it again". I remind her that I'm a super greenhorn and just trying to find my way forward and to make sure I'm not taking the wrong path for my OOC time investment into this game. I, as a human being, was asking questions so that my enjoyment and love of this game you all adore would be maximized. I was being sincere, genuine, and my excitement was palpable.

She then says "my next tell will be in character" and proceeds to answer my OOC series of questions with a single IC statement in which that she refuses be helpful any longer. She states that in her house they are helpful, but since I joined another house, too bad. SOL. That I should've done all of the reading she suggested on the various houses (Which I did). She states I shouldn't have rushed my decision. (does an hour of RP before joining a House count as rushed?) And that If I want any of my questions answered it will need to come from Rijetta or my own housemates.

I had asked for a quick OOC conversation. As a new player I still have the option to change my class and that was the subject of my query. Classes in a game. Overarching game questions that would help a new AETOLIA PLAYER decide his path. How does that subject have anything to do with the hour of nice introductory RP I had yesterday with someone else? Why does my Vampire House matter when I'm a brand new player asking you questions about the game that could cause me to change my class altogether and not even be in a Vampire House? At that point I'm a new Aetolia player asking you about Aetolia. Not a new vampire asking you about vampire things.

I'm sure that most of you, like me, have a hell of a lot less time to play than when you first started playing MUDs. And now, it's seemingly always less than you would like, right? I had a few measly hours to sit down and play a game that has me feeling super nostalgic, but I want to make sure I'm working towards the right things from day 1. (I recently tried another MUD and found out 3 days in that all my progress was essentially wasted and I'd mostly have to start over, due in part to the website being very outdated. I'd hoped to not let history repeat itself here)

I simply was hoping to have a couple questions answered so I could turn loose on Aetolia and start diving in with confidence that I was on the path I wanted to be on. I had a great first day, and within the first few hours I had a lengthy and meaningful RP with Rijetta.

To then have a veteran player who offered to help the day before refuse to answer a few very important questions about the overall game meta because they are making false assumptions about what you did or didn't do in your first hour or two of RP'ing and playing the game is just petty. Beyond petty. To have that veteran throw shade on another player who immediately dropped everything to come RP with me and engage with me, just because I joined their house right away, is shameful. And seemingly predicated based entirely on false assumptions.

Personally, I don't mind one iota if your character is IC mad at mine. Quite the opposite in fact. I'd quite enjoy an RP a situation where old vamp is pissed at a young vamp for making hasty (or so she THINKS) decisions. Fantastic! RP drama is fun!

But if you're taking IC emotions and then applying them to your OOC personality and using that as justification for treating other new players (not their CHARACTERS, but the HUMAN at the computer screen) with disdain is just senseless.

Disdain felt like too strong word so I looked it up: "the feeling that someone or something is unworthy of one's consideration or respect." And I absolutely was treated with disdain. Would you have treated a player who's playing their first MUD ever this way? Maybe a 13 year old kid like I was when I started playing decades ago? How would you know the difference or do you just assume everyone must be 40 and have played MUDs their whole life? What the eff

This should not have bothered me as much as it did. I should not have spent so much damn time writing this horrible novel of a post. I should not have let this consume my thoughts today because I have so many things in life that I should be thinking about instead.

..But damnit.. I sat down to play a game with my very special few hours of free time with a giddiness not felt in a long time. Just needed a couple questions answered that I'd written down the night prior so I could come at the game with a head full of steam. Instead, I spent 11 minutes in Aetolia today before I X'd the window feeling annoyed to say the least.

Apologies for the length of this post but I just felt this was imperative to share.

I'm still wicked excited about Aetolia- It's like the old MUD I miss but so much better in so many ways. So much more modern. I'll definitely be back. But I wouldn't blame a first-timer, coming here from reddit or some other place, from being turned off to the whole idea because of behavior like this. An attitude that has no doubt hurt the cause of Multi User Dungeons over the years.

We must please remember to do everything in our power to grow the community of MUD players and not let our IC interacts affect our OOC treatment of other human beings who are spending their free time enjoying the same niche hobby as you. We're all on the same team, after all.

I'm quite looking forward to joining you all in the realms here soon, as an entirely new character.

May the wind be always at your back. Peace.


  • RhyotRhyot BloodlochMember Posts: 574 ✭✭✭✭
    First of all, I am very sorry that someone who has been playing Aetolia as extensively as they have did this to you and that, in no way, is this how a majority of us act.

    Secondly, if your questions were not answered before. I will answer them now:

    1. I read there were a bunch of vamp changes being made- are those finished, or should I wait to try vamp (whos lore really excites me) until the newest wave of changes are complete.

    Answer: Most vamp changes are complete on an admin level, but much like life, its ever fluid and ever changing. So expect changes to happen as time goes on and be sure to read the Changelogs every day to make sure you're not missing something.

    2. I asked for confirmation that 'bashing' was simply 'hunting mobs'. I assumed that from the post's context but wasn't 100% on that

    Answer: Bashing is simply that. Hunting mobs. You find a target, you kill target. Just make sure its not a guard or someone's pet/mount. That might lead to some PK circumstances or some very hateful IC repercussions.

    3. I read that many vamps switch to other classes (Carnifex, Teradrim) for bashing and im some cases feel "stuck" having to bash as a vampire when they class-switch. Since I plan to spend a majorty of my time 'bashing' I asked if she thought vamps were weaker in that regard.

    Answer: Bashing as a Praenomen is a little difficult because of how slow they are combined with their inability to really tank a hit. Sure, they have an amazing offense, but if you're just going to spend your time bashing, I would suggest Teradrim or Carnifex for that. However, just because you choose that doesn't necessarily exclude you from being vampire or undead. Just keep that in mind.

    4. Mentioned PK is something I'd like to do many moons from now and I heard vamps were good at that, asked if she could give her opinion or simply confirm/deny.

    Answer: Praenomen PK is really really good. One of the better combat classes that the Shadow side has, but it is overly difficult to use because you have to balance whispers with venoms as well as passives. If you can get really good with combat theory and become really good with combat knowledge, you will absolutely excel with Praenomen. Conversely, Teradrim has overly difficult PK abilities because limb tracking is moderately rough. Carnifex, however, combines a decent blend of usability in PK/bashing.

    5. Lastly, what are some good zones to explore/clear once I finish the intro stuff to get my feet wet?

    I can't really answer this one. I'm kind of just a Basher. So if you want bashing/pk advice, I can definitely give you that. Exploration, Teani, Tina or Sarita will be the girls you wanna talk to.

  • TeaniTeani Shadow Mistress SwedenMember Posts: 2,189 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hi @Havlok and welcome to our fantastic game! 

    I, as those above, am so sorry you had to experience what you did and I'm glad it has not squashed your enthusiasm.

    Too pitch in and answer the last question you had, I'd like to start off by pointing you towards the AREAS command. It's not always spot on, depending on your class, but it is a guideline when it comes to level of difficulty. There's a lot out there to explore! Don't hesitate to ask for tips, both IC and OOC. 

    We also have a pretty extensive quest system, with hints connected to mobs and items. If you like questing, GREETing people is a good way to start. 

    Don't let one interaction bring you down. There are plenty more of us to RP and chat with! 

  • RijettaRijetta Nowhere ImportantMember Posts: 232 ✭✭✭✭
    Omg hi Havlok! I'm so embarassed that you called me out like this but I thought I'd offer my two cents as well: welcome welcome welcome!!!!! I'm so glad this event hasn't turned you away, because I'd feel simply awful. However, you should know that after your talk with Neoma, she actually reached out to me and confessed that she'd been kind of a unicorns towards you (no offense Neoma, I'm paraphrasing!) and that she had wrongfully accused me of just snatching you up, amongst other things including her unhelpfulness. so please don't harbor a grudge against her! I think she was just having a bad day. :)

    In any case, I'm super glad you're wanting to stick around. Believe it or not, you're my first protege, and I'm not actually all that old myself, I've been playing for a few months. But let me try to add my insight to Rhyot's very concise and good answers!

    The things I can speak best about are the vampire changes, the vampire bashing, and the vampire PK.

    LOTS of changes have happened, and although they are mostly mechanically enacted, things are still kinda... recuperating. Lots of Houses are having to re-do all their progression, we're getting new standardized requirements for younglings (like you!), and everybody's kind of picking up the pieces, especially with the resurgence in activity thanks to the big event. Particularly huge changes: Jumping from Sire to Sire is not only easier, now, it's kind of expected by the system, allowing for your blood rank (such as 'Princess') to potentially represent your merit, based on how your House handles it. On top of that, the Primus is now an elected position and no longer rules all of Bloodloch, and House Leaders will ALWAYS be an Emperor/Empress (they weren't before).

    Vamp bashing isn't the best, as far as I'm concerned! I'm mostly without artifacts and I ended up picking up Carnifex and dropping a little money on lessons to get it high enough to properly bash with, and it was definitely lots better. Now that I'm endgame and can sort of afford extra stuff like orbs and occasional amulets, it's less terrible -- and some other folks just recently got to 100 with vamp, so it's not impossible. It's probably not the worst bashing in the game... but it's not mindless, either. Like Rhyot said, Carnifex and Teradrim are the Bloodloch classes that are really gonna bash like crazy without too much investment. Thanks to multiclassing, though, it's possible to pick them up without giving up Praenomen!

    Prae PK is my preferred avenue of PK. It's my favorite class, both for RPing and for PKing, so it's the one I stay in the most (I switch to Carni when I need to do lotsa bashing). Prae does require some decent coding, but there is a free aff tracker (Project Source, here on the forums) and from what I can tell, it's not too hard to code in an aff tracker for yourself, just tedious. Like Rhyot said, though, different classes do different things -- Praenomen is entirely an aff class, which means all its major routes hinge on delivering afflictions to your enemy, and lots of them. Meanwhile, Teradrim focuses on breaking limbs and getting bruises to set up for an instakill, though I might be misinformed, and Carnifex has two major routes, one of which is affliction and one of which is limbs.

    Some things that might not be super evident right now: You can join a Guild while as a Vampire! Or vice versa -- you can start in a Guild, then take the Blood later. You just need to 'master' your first class, be it guilded or praenomen. Mastering a class is two skills to transcendent or three to virtuoso. Once that's done, you can pick up the other class by joining the Guild or the House.

    Hopefully this answers questions and addresses your concerns adequately. Do reach out if it doesn't!
    A low, sultry voice resounds within the depths of your mind, "I look forward to seeing your descent."
  • AdaliAdali Member Posts: 32 ✭✭✭
    Now I wanna make a vampire alt. I have no clue how they work, so we could be newbies together. XD Keep your enthusiasm going, the game can be pretty fun at times!
  • TiurTiur Producer Member, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 1,112 admin
    I think most of this has been addressed. But to reaffirm: Welcome to Aetolia, and I'm sorry you had a rough interaction. We love new players! If you see me around, please don't hesitate to ask questions.
  • NeomaNeoma Member Posts: 120 ✭✭✭
    Someone told me about this thread and I felt I should come see for myself. @Havlok you are right that i was not very nice, but my words were not exactly as you told them. I am a long time player and most people know me for being quite easy and not a unicorns who snipes new comers. I was having a terrible day and sadly you got the brunt of it. What you forgot to mention is that you told me unicorns YOU. And even in my being not nice state i never used words like that. Also you forgot to mention that I messaged you an apology. I even apologized to Rijetta for having doubted her. She can confirm if you want. I am sorry but I guess neoma is human also. I hope I have not soured your view of the game. It is an awesome game which has made me laugh and sometimes cry.
  • HavlokHavlok USAMember Posts: 2
    Thanks for the replies. I look forward to continuing my journey this week. See you all there!

    @Zaila Looking forward to meeting you as well! :)

    @Rhyot Thanks for the tips, and thanks for answering my questions

    @Teani Ahh AREAS is going to be very useful, I am sure. Tyvm

    @Rijetta Keep being awesome :) Tremendous help as always. Looking forward to my continued journey with House D'Baen. After much internal debate, I have decided to not make a new char at this time. I'm sure have many questions for you, mentor ;)

    @Neoma I did not see the apology you sent to me, I had already X'd the game at that point. Thanks for that, and thank-you for apologizing to Rijetta.

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