RP-conflict ideas

TeaniTeani Shadow MistressSwedenMember Posts: 2,211 ✭✭✭✭✭
I've heard some people say it before, and I know I'm one to feel it. "I miss the old days when kidnappings and robberies were part of the fun RP of the game, when it didn't end up with a ganksquad rushing in every time, but people actually attempted to RP out conflict through diplomacy and emotes."

It seems to me that more and more of the focus of this game is turned towards the PK-aspect of RP. I'm using this phrase deliberately, because if I were to say it was scewed more towards PK than RP, I'd get shouted down with comments like "PK is RP", and I agree. I just miss the other form of RP conflicts.

I've heard it mentioned that nowadays you wouldn't go off kidnapping someone, because you'd get hunted down by their allies, even if they're told not to. Allies be allies, right? No one should touch my pal without knowing I'm there to defend/save them! And it usually means they come in with brawns rather than brains. Or when someone tries to kidnap the other party, they immediately shout for help instead of seeing what might happen.

It's like there's this strange idea floating around that if you can't fight (have a system to compete) you're not as likely to be the one solving a conflict. Everyone is asking for conflicts, because they make things more interesting. The loudest arguments in the rage threads are mostly from combat people who are annoyed with how the war systems don't work or how the balance is wrong. Of course this leads to more attention to fix said problems, like working on a way to fix Holywars, writing code for a new war system.

However, I saw this thing implemented in Spinesreach by the players, where you can submit yourself to some time in jail if you've committed a crime against the city, rather than paying a fine and/or get bountied/killed. I've also been told of public floggings in the past that would serve as a way to pay one's dues.

I'd really like to see more ways to create other forms of RP conflict than through PK, so I wrote up a suggestion (which seemed to get a good response from the few I showed it to among those who are less interested in PK). This was, however, rejected as the Admin thought it was more important to focus on other things, conflict on a broader scale. I would just like to ask the community what they think, in general. Do you have suggestions on how to create more conflict for the non-coms that won't necessarily end up with a PK ganksquad taking over?



Haven

Comments

  • RasharRashar Member Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2014
    It's out there. Find the right people and RP it. Unfortunately this place is, on the whole, a big collection of smaller and more intimate RP groups, for the most part anyway. Conflict exists. I've RP'd several rescues, a kidnapping or two, hired hits, fistfights, etc. I'm currently enemied to Duiran when I could easily not be, because Rashar is a proud, stubborn bastard. Thats not even counting the tapestry incidents, the magic paint, etc. You can find people willing to go the same IC route as you, if you look. Maybe even pop an ooc tell to check.

    That being said.. it's also valid for people to react to it. If you kidnap my friend or my brother or my kids or whoever, ICLY or IRL, you can be sure I'm coming. And it isn't to talk. So it's all risk you need to be willing to take.

    Then again, the same thing applies to, you know. We're the Beacon, rah rah. Death to vampires, burn the Undead. BUUUUT, pretty much only when we're fighting over that Ylem stuff. It's clearly more important than eternal subjugation, blood slaves, or what not. The administration don't want this to be an open PK environment, and for good reason. Lots of non pkers.

    As Rowena is so fond of saying in so many words, "Don't start no unicorns, won't be no unicorns." Kidnap at your own risk!
  • HavenHaven World Burner Flight SchoolMember Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭✭✭
    One of the main issues is consent and determining the end. Find those among us who is willing to chance / experience loss and endure a bit of drama, then you'll have your group. As with the PK-aspect of Aetolia, unless you're willing to go through extraordinary lengths to lock someone down who doesn't wish to participate then the arc isn't likely to get off the ground.
    ¤ Si vis pacem, para bellum. ¤
    Someone powerful says, "We're going to have to delete you."
    havenbanner2
  • IshinIshin Retired Lurker VirginiaMember Posts: 1,765 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Similar has happened in the past, like when Ishin was made to bury the guards who died when @Damariel raided. The issue isn't really that it doesn't exist, the issue is whether one player or the other will agree when something is the end. Even if we irritate one another greatly at times, @Moirean and I generally tend to get along fairly well and in that situation we had a more or less non-verbal agreement that what was gonna happen was gonna happen, and we were both fine with it.

    You just don't see it as much as you do PK because with RP there's no -actual- end except a mechanical one(pk or otherwise) if both parties can't see eye-to-eye and/or agree beforehand on things.
    Tell me and I forget, teach me and
    I remember, involve me and I
    learn.
    -Benjamin Franklin
  • FaerahFaerah Member Posts: 218 ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2014
    While I understand what you are suggesting @Teani, from one noncom to another, there are consequences for actions and quite often death should be them.

    For example, if someone comes into the Syssin Guildhall and kidnaps our tutor, they are likely going to get killed - on loop - and why shouldn't they be? They violated private space and are, presumably, endangering the life of someone important the the Guild. I know it makes it 'less interesting' for people who are not combat inclined, but in terms of actual immersion and not suspending disbelief (and... It's a major suspension of disbelief that @Ishin wouldn't grief whomever kidnapped our tutor) it makes sense and is valid RP (as you admit).

    Noncoms can get involved in all sorts of conflict in Aetolia. Not normally outwardly aggressively, but they really haven't earned the right to be outwardly aggressive either. It's like someone wanting to be get the benefits of winning an Olympic gold in hurdling without ever setting foot on a track and then complaining that they can't. Still, even as a noncom, I love the PK aspect of the game and wish there was more of it. If there was more PK, there would be more room for PK support for noncoms. There'd be more opportunities to RP the fallout of PK conflict. It'd just be... More fun for everyone involved (as long as there was some moderation). Right now, I feel like PK and RP are so separate from each other. If you PK, its typically sect stuff or lessers - which are both relatively isolated from the rest of the game (almost mini-games instead of woven into the rest of the game itself).

    Again, I really do get where you're coming from - and I think a war system in which noncoms could participate in some meaningful manner would be a great thing - but short of that, I dislike the idea of bleeding this game of PK conflict, and a certain sense of danger, even further than it already has been.
    Ishin
  • SessizlikSessizlik Muffin Mage Member Posts: 491 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's just really tedious trying to find people willing to go along with it. I'm not quite comfortable with planning out a complete rp session Beforehand through ooc-tells only to have it work. When I started playing, it was something that just happened. These Days, people either don't seem interested, or are afraid of it becoming a ganksquad deluxe combat session instead. Perhaps I should just form a thread on the forums where people interested in the non-pk conflict can put their names down so people know who to Contact? I dunno..
    image
  • RasharRashar Member Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Tell ashmer ( Hey, got some crazy shiz, you down to rp it? )
    Tell rashar ( rashar about to get unicorns up. You down? )
    Tell Daskalos ( .. oh wait, Daskalos don't RP. *duck* )
    Tell trager ( if this gets not fun, just say something )

    Just examples. You don't have to submit a conop for every RP session. A heads up just makes sure they know you're trying to RP some stuff, and is really only for you to be comfortable they aren't going to blow it off and start swinging. The names were just for examples. I don't think anybody listed above even -needs- a heads up to take up some rp unless it's complicated or something.
    MoireanAshmerAryanne
  • MoireanMoirean Chairmander PortlandMember Posts: 5,612 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I nearly always default to RP first, unless it's someone I have a bad history with, actual attacks are thrown or something is going on that necessitates PK (ie don't try to RP out a conflict in the middle of me marching troops, etc). Maybe it's because I'm fairly decent at PK, but most people I interact with also RP back if I open with RP - for example, I stormed into Duiran the other week all crazy and angreh at @Cannan and ended up rotting him right there at the Core, and everyone was like emotes/says etc, when they could have enemied me or all ganged up on me.
  • AshmerAshmer Barefoot Adventurer LifeMember Posts: 1,095 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2014
    Rashar said:

    Tell ashmer ( Hey, got some crazy shiz, you down to rp it? )
    Tell rashar ( rashar about to get unicorns up. You down? )
    Tell Daskalos ( .. oh wait, Daskalos don't RP. *duck* )
    Tell trager ( if this gets not fun, just say something )

    Just examples. You don't have to submit a conop for every RP session. A heads up just makes sure they know you're trying to RP some stuff, and is really only for you to be comfortable they aren't going to blow it off and start swinging. The names were just for examples. I don't think anybody listed above even -needs- a heads up to take up some rp unless it's complicated or something.

    We never did do that cool arc you came up with.

    OOC interaction is really really important in generating conflict. I personally kind of swing both ways (no, @Rashar, not like that) when it comes to the emote-versus-PK thing, but I personally love to interweave (or alternate) the two. I think they're complementary, not contradictory (for example, you don't have to emote INSTEAD OF use mechanical abilities - do both!). Even a non-combatant can Rot someone, for example, or Shadow, or something with some mechanical consequence.

    This is something I'm currently working on with myself, but I think it's also important to be willing to lose. More accurately, I think it's important to be responsible for that your character isn't necessarily the "main character" of a particular plot line (@Severn is). It's more George R.R. Martin-style, where there's no clear protagonist, everyone's potentially a bad guy, and conflict happens in an exchange of power, not in one side "winning" and one "losing." Aetolia doesn't have a beginning, middle, and an end, rather a continuum of give-and-take where good and evil rochambeau until IRE closes its doors.

    Anyway, consider this an open-door offer for anyone that wants to do some cool, mildly disturbing conflict RP.

    (I'll still get you, @Rivas. And your little dog, too!)


    image

    the way she tells me I'm hers and she is mine

    open hand or closed fist would be fine

    blood as rare and sweet as cherry wine

    SlypheIshinAryanne
  • RasharRashar Member Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2014
    @ashmer not opposed! I'm not done with the arc, it's taken much longer than I expected for various reasons. Still room for creepiiin'.


    Total side note, I personally love to use skills in emotes, if only to make @roux snort at my fancy finger snapping sonic portal that I really sort of cheated on since I didn't have a target. :)

    Also, because eff switching classes for RP. If I'm a tri trans luminary or mage, I'm gonna make some fires. Just, you know. Watch out. @auresae will eat you.
  • AshmerAshmer Barefoot Adventurer LifeMember Posts: 1,095 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Rashar said:

    @ashmer not opposed! I'm not done with the arc, it's taken much longer than I expected for various reasons. Still room for creepiiin'.

    Oh, excellent. I'll go get my mustache and white windowless van.
    Rashar said:

    Total side note, I personally love to use skills in emotes, if only to make @roux snort at my fancy finger snapping sonic portal that I really sort of cheated on since I didn't have a target. :)

    Also, because eff switching classes for RP. If I'm a tri trans luminary or mage, I'm gonna make some fires. Just, you know. Watch out. @auresae will eat you.

    This. Mechanics are an important and necessary structure to support roleplay, but I'm of the opinion that it should never interfere with roleplay.

    Besides, with skill scrolls, Templars are hurling lightning bolts and Luminaries are striking poses in defiance of mankind's evil while vampires are drunkenly flailing at their prey. I personally don't think lighting a smoke with Illumination while you're in Templar class is out of the picture.

    the way she tells me I'm hers and she is mine

    open hand or closed fist would be fine

    blood as rare and sweet as cherry wine

    TragerIshin
  • TeaniTeani Shadow Mistress SwedenMember Posts: 2,211 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Rashar said:

    Unfortunately this place is, on the whole, a big collection of smaller and more intimate RP groups, for the most part anyway.

    I think this is a really big issue. Some people are not comfortable spearing into a new group that seems all tight-knit to head up some interesting conflict, because they might be seen as drama-makers.
    Ashmer said:

    This is something I'm currently working on with myself, but I think it's also important to be willing to lose.

    I really don't mind playing the loser in conflicts, but yeah, I know what you mean. There's a lot of people out there who can't seem to stand the idea of their characters being on the losing side, feeling outsmarted or whatever it is.

    Just throwing it out there, I'm interested in any and all kinds of RP. But what I wanted with this thread in particular was ideas on / interest in developing ways for outsiders of said groups to start conflicts and keep it small.



  • TragerTrager Raiding your underwear drawer.Member Posts: 574 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Rashar definitely brought that into my RP a bit, and I don't regret starting to throw those bits out there in the slightest. Being trained as a Zealot, for example. Instead of shattering someone's medallion when they are leaving the Pride, Trager super-heats it then shears it in two with a big old he-man show of strength. Stuff like that really adds to the flavor imo.
    Indoran'i is back baby. It's go-... Oh.


  • ZsadistZsadist Member Posts: 815 ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2014
    @Teani, RP can be anywhere and everywhere. For example, I was standing at the crack and you came in and started emoting about getting unenemied and all that good stuff. We RP'd for a good hour or two, with you and me both just relaxing and RPing... no conflict. Also, I've done the same with @Haven, we both sat there and had a philosophical discussion about Light/Corruption (sadly, he poofed so we couldn't continue talking, either that or he didn't wanna talk anymore).

    However, RP can be done anywhere/anytime/with anyone, you just have to judge how they are going to react. I mean, going off a more violent RP, me and @Trager are usually fighting a lot cause we'll talk unicorns to each other at a lesser now and then, and then we'll run to NoT and fight each other (usually with his win :( ).

    You could easily generate conflict RP without any PK getting involved. So I, personally, don't feel that you need to be like

    Tell ishin (( hey broski, wanna RP?)
    Ishin tells you, (( sure! -insert evil angry face- ))

    You just go in, start, and see where it goes. If it goes nowhere, you tried. If it goes somewhere, hurray for RP!! :D



    Also, I'd hate to RP with @Ishin..... only because we'd likely grief each other afterward if one of called the other a name we didn't like. <3 On another point, that'd be great guild RP conflict. Syssin vs BB :D

    Edit: I also want to point out that when it comes to tight knit groups of people who RP together only, its usually an exclusive one meant only for them OR its because they want a certain end goal and can meta to get to that goal. Not exactly fun if you ask me, but it happens.
    (Oasis): Benedicto says, "There was like 0.5 seconds between "Oh hey, they're in area. That was quick." and "OMFG THEY'RE IN THE AREA STAHP STAHP!""


    Ishin
  • MeyvitchMeyvitch Member Posts: 684 ✭✭✭✭
    I am officially signing myself up for rp volunteer, if people want to try crazy unicorns. I just don't do whipping that's pretty much only line I draw unless I find another one, then I'll just tell you before we cross it


    imageimage "Little pig, little pig, let me in, let me in. You look tasty and smell like bacon." *LICKLICKLICK*
    Samp
  • AishiaAishia Queen Bee Member Posts: 2,272 ✭✭✭✭✭
    But how will you eat all these pinecones!?
    TeaniSamp
  • AmberleaAmberlea Member Posts: 148 ✭✭✭
    I'm absolutely down for all sorts of RP conflict, including kidnapping and torture etc.

    Depending on the scope of what people want to do, I would like some OOC discussion about it beforehand though, for various reasons, not the least of which being that I have my own plans for my character and ideally I'd like to work it out so that both parties goals within a scene are at least potentialities.

    tl;dr: if you wanna tie amber to a table and peel her skin off we're gonna have to have a chat before hand. If you wanna come up and tell her why wolves are stupid we can play that one by ear :P
    image
    Rawr
    Teani
  • RasharRashar Member Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Target acquired -> Amberlea.
    Creeper mode, engaged.
    Amberlea
  • AshmerAshmer Barefoot Adventurer LifeMember Posts: 1,095 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Rashar said:

    Target acquired -> Amberlea.
    Creeper mode, engaged.

    I'll race you.

    the way she tells me I'm hers and she is mine

    open hand or closed fist would be fine

    blood as rare and sweet as cherry wine

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