Cabalists

OleisOleis Producer EmeritusMember, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 1,393 admin
edited January 24 in Aetolia Development
I entered the guild and city meeting process with the intention of doing whatever it took to avoid closing any guilds. Unfortunately, the situation in the Cabalist guild was more dire than I realized. Despite the sincere efforts of the guild's leaders, there is not a feasible path forward for them to regrow their membership and recover. Over the last week or so, I've worked together with the guild's leaders to transition their roleplay and assets into a non-guild structure so that we don't lose the rich history of the Cabal. There's a clear place for the amazing roleplay they bring to the table in Spinesreach, but the guild itself has closed its doors. The class will still be freely available to Spireans and I'll be restoring it to the introduction soon.

I cannot overstate my appreciation for @Eleanor and @Akaryuterra in this process. They've been extremely honest with me, forthcoming with their desires for the future, and willing to work together on a solution that hurts the least. They have truly made the best of a difficult situation, and helped me feel confident in an impossible decision.

I do not intend to leave Spinesreach short a guild. As we work on the Cabalist revamp, I will be monitoring the communities of influence within the city. If enough like-minded people come together, I will present a guild concept with the offer of formation. It would be a relatively clean slate in terms of lore, role, and leadership, but it would be the home for the revamped Cabalist class.

You say to Slyphe, "You're so freaking smart."
[---]
"^," Slyphe agrees with you.
PazradymRhoynnRunasLeanaIgnotumEmelle
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Comments

  • RunasRunas Member Posts: 81 ✭✭✭
    As a former long time Cabalist, I have a very very soft spot in my heart for the niche of roleplay the Cabal embodies, it really was the first organization in Aetolia where I felt I could be me, and have an excuse for it, so long as the effort was for knowledge, and of course....science!

    @Eleanor and @Akaryuterra are impeccable roleplayers who offer a rich and diverse playing field of storytelling and lore which is consistent and unwavering. Their loyalties to Spinesreach and each other have shown for years the strength of their love for the Cabalists, and I am appreciative to have been part of that era through thick and thin, they put up with my character and his hijinx through dire times like a disapproving mother and father with an unruly teenage son who wanted to smoke under the bleachers and read the necronomicon to his shrine of Zac Efron in the endless void.

    Overall, I know great things will come, but I want to use this soapboax to say I love you guys and what the Cabal represents and I am excited to see where it goes from here..

    THE SRS BETTER BE A SOLID THING NOW...

    That is all <3
    The Divine voice of Tiur echoes in your head, "You know better than that. Bad."
    A telekinetic newspaper swats your nose.
    OleisKafarAkaryuterra
  • KelliaraKelliara Member Posts: 469 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24
    I'm really struggling to give my thoughts on this subject in a way that doesn't make me sound horrible and bitter.

    So, I'll keep things short so as not to press my luck:

    I'm hopeful about what the future might bring for the Cabal (in whatever form it takes both in the short and long-term) as well as on Spinesreach as a whole, and that support will be given as needed to help stop things from scattering and falling to pieces.
    Now with 253% more Madness.
    Chibi-Kelli by @Eleanor.
    XeniaFyrrenRunasMegiddo
  • MegiddoMegiddo MegiddoMember Posts: 16
    I feel you @Oleis could have came out with a better ending for the Cabalist to go out, rather than the tutor deciding he/she wasn't going to be the tutor no more. It would have been better roleplay, and maybe had a chance for people to do something about it. Regardless, the cabal had a important role in spinesreach especially the research part of the city. Though my Character is looked at as a newbie, I am far from it. I am deeply hurt because The Cabalist was my first guild when I heard about Aetolia. All I am saying could have had better roleplay...
  • MegiddoMegiddo MegiddoMember Posts: 16
    If that's the case, then. It just sucks that it happened to the Cabalist. I hope they do something and group up to make a new guild of a sort
  • FyrrenFyrren Member Posts: 121 ✭✭✭
    Megiddo said:

    If that's the case, then. It just sucks that it happened to the Cabalist. I hope they do something and group up to make a new guild of a sort

    I think that's the plan that was stated. Revamp and then new guild.
    text

    image
    Avatar of Fyrren drawn by the amazing Sessizlik.
    Teani
  • RhoynnRhoynn HartfordMember Posts: 65 ✭✭✭
    Oleis said:

    If enough like-minded people come together, I will present a guild concept with the offer of formation. It would be a relatively clean slate in terms of lore, role, and leadership, but it would be the home for the revamped Cabalist class.

    I didn't sleep. Not really. 5 hours, at most. I've been revving in overdrive, trying to think of things. Its what my brain does when its trying to find a solution to a problem that isn't so obviously solved. Maybe that's why I'm a Cabalist.

    But the above lines kind of jumped out at me, and I've been gnawing over them. You've stated that the assets, NPCs, etc are turned over to us to preserve the legacy of the Cabal, and then state that you won't leave Spinsereach down a guild. And if (And when) you make this change, the new guild will be a 'clean' slate. How will you both preserve the (Extremely long, rich legacy of the Cabal) while also providing something new, and of a clean slate?

    We were very singular in our nature. Kind of neutral in purpose- not inherently evil, or anything. But what made us stand apart was that we were scientists, who focused on the larger scale of planar defence. Not magicians, mystical shamans, empowered warriors. There was always a distinct notion that the Cabalist could do as much as the Cabalist -could- do, within mortal (Human) physical and mental limitations. It gave the work that I did, in the time I was there, a rich, very real quality to it. I was well aware of my character's limitations, as a person, and it kept me (And all of us, I firmly believe) from going 'OP' with the sheer possibility of what the Spheres presented.

    I read this 'Revamp' as a kind of 'Get rid of Domination, retool Necromancy/give it a new coat of paint and name, and retool Numerology' type of thing. Could you please inform us, at large, what can be expected from this revamp, so we as a now-lost guild, and any new players who may wish to join our class and cause, can have an idea of what the basics of what we will be will look like?

    image
    Leana
  • LeharLehar farmMember Posts: 64 ✭✭✭
    I feel like I may be in the minority here when I publicly say that I think this was a good idea, flat out. For a long time, the Cabalists have been not just quiet but almost hidden from view of the player base - some may say "that's their thing", but so too could be said for the Syssin and they manage to have a very real grasp on how to be a visible guild that still engages and works with the world in this mindset. 

    While I could go into other parts, I understand that Eleanor and Akaryuterra put in a lot of time and as much effort as they could to make it work and don't want to be inconsiderate of this fact. It takes a lot to stick beside something for so long. 

    Maybe I'm enjoying the Oleis kool-aid too much for the time, but I have faith that he took as much consideration of the situation as he could and, while I'm sure people will have plenty of questions, it will turn out well.
    LeanaFyrrenRoxiIshin
  • LeanaLeana Member Posts: 84 ✭✭✭
    Rhoynn said:


    We were very singular in our nature. Kind of neutral in purpose- not inherently evil, or anything. But what made us stand apart was that we were scientists, who focused on the larger scale of planar defence. Not magicians, mystical shamans, empowered warriors. There was always a distinct notion that the Cabalist could do as much as the Cabalist -could- do, within mortal (Human) physical and mental limitations. It gave the work that I did, in the time I was there, a rich, very real quality to it. I was well aware of my character's limitations, as a person, and it kept me (And all of us, I firmly believe) from going 'OP' with the sheer possibility of what the Spheres presented.

    I read this 'Revamp' as a kind of 'Get rid of Domination, retool Necromancy/give it a new coat of paint and name, and retool Numerology' type of thing. Could you please inform us, at large, what can be expected from this revamp, so we as a now-lost guild, and any new players who may wish to join our class and cause, can have an idea of what the basics of what we will be will look like?

    The description of the guild you presented is pretty much why it suffered so much. This 'singular' attitude and neutrality does not make for good conflict and motivation. It also involves a lot of internal drama when there is this 'Secrets' and 'Private Research' where everyone is quite literally trying to be the biggest snowflake they can be and one-up the others around them. I can tell by the way you talk about it that the guild was more a personal event than a collective one and that is not the purpose of guilds.

    Just so you know, there are lots more Cabalist users out there in the game who long since left the guild and practice in their own internal rp arcs within new, cohesive guilds. This revamp is not solely for the few who were dislodged from their guild. It's for the overall game at large and the betterment of it.


    FyrrenMihaketiLinRhoynnRoxiXeniaRunasIshin
  • RhoynnRhoynn HartfordMember Posts: 65 ✭✭✭
    I'm not one to engage in Forum back-and-forths. So I won't. I'll simply state that no one, I felt, was trying to be a 'special snowflake' and that there's a derogatory nature associated with that term. If you'll note, I stated that what I loved most was how real, and taxing, the work of a Cabalist felt. Instead of being "We're all super-powered freaks" we each, in our own way, were encouraged and guided to be very cognizant scientists.

    As to my inquiry about the Revamp, I ask for the sake of the guild it is tied to, that is now lost. I'm more than aware there are many Cabalist-users out there, but if Zealot were getting a Revamp, it would make sense for the Illuminai to want to know the details. As it does here, with the guild-now-clan this class belongs to.
    image
    Leana
  • LeanaLeana Member Posts: 84 ✭✭✭
    Rhoynn said:


    As to my inquiry about the Revamp, I ask for the sake of the guild it is tied to, that is now lost. I'm more than aware there are many Cabalist-users out there, but if Zealot were getting a Revamp, it would make sense for the Illuminai to want to know the details. As it does here, with the guild-now-clan this class belongs to.

    No, the class doesn't belong to your guild-now-clan. It belongs to everyone who happens to have it. That selfishness may hinder the Cabal (or what they'll be called next) rebirth. It's all about attitude. The harder you cling to the dying class and its faulty lore, the longer it will take for it to come around again.


    FyrrenRhoynnRoxiXeniaRunas
  • HavenHaven World Burner Flight SchoolMember Posts: 2,226 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Could someone elaborate more on the guild's problems? I always thought the Cabal had a strong premise behind it.

    Maybe I'm misremembering the lore but I always thought the Indorani were the gypsy/voodoo backwards cousin of the cabal. The Cabal stood out to me as that scientific scholar community that went "rogue" (by real life standards). In their pursuit of immortality, knowledge and power - they "fell" by making pacts with demons and I saw them as this fringe group pushing the boundaries of life, the ether and cosmos. I always had a suspicion their experiments and tinkering and boundary pushing would be linked to the Shadow Mother and other wordly invasions like Kerrithrim and stuff.

    Honestly, if it weren't for the fact that I adored Knight rp at the time and the class's PvP capabilities were broken/gimmicky at the time, I'd probably have rolled a Cabbie instead of an Infernal all those years ago. So yeah - what was wrong with the guild concept exactly? Lol or was I way off the ball?
    ¤ Si vis pacem, para bellum. ¤
    Someone powerful says, "We're going to have to delete you."
    havenbanner2
    Leana
  • LeanaLeana Member Posts: 84 ✭✭✭
    edited January 24
    Mihaketi said:

    Leana said:

    It also involves a lot of internal drama when there is this 'Secrets' and 'Private Research' where everyone is quite literally trying to be the biggest snowflake they can be and one-up the others around them. I can tell by the way you talk about it that the guild was more a personal event than a collective one and that is not the purpose of guilds.

    Leana said:

    The harder you cling to the dying class and its faulty lore, the longer it will take for it to come around again.

    There are not reasonable or civil things to say without evidence or explanation, and I really question what you're basing your judgements on because it doesn't match with my experience in the slightest. What was faulty about the lore? A lot of it was built by players to explain mechanical limitations and pave over odd disparities between how the skills were presented and how they behaved in truth. How was someone pursuing a personal interest as a scientist as """special snowflake""" (good lord I loathe that term)? The guild's focus on personal exploration and acting as a support structure rather than a vehicle for pursuing the game's conflicts is why it was unhealthy -as a guild-, but that doesn't somehow mean that anyone who enjoyed it isn't allowed to hope that some aspect of that survives the removal of the org without being labelled a snowflake.

    Additionally, as far as I am aware you yourself left the Cabalists to pursue your own """special snowflake""" RP, so throwing people who you've never met under the bus because of your own bad blood with the old guild is probably not something you want to be doing in this thread.
    Everyone disagreeing with my post is fine to do so, as that's their opinion. I base my judgements on firsthand experience (on this character and alts) and from conversations with former Cabalist members. The lore was faulty because it focused solely on secrets and isolation, which is unhealthy for a social organization. There are other reasons associated with it, but if you want my full lecture on that we can take it to private message.

    You (@mihaketi) do not get to put words in my mouth (or in post) with your continued used of 'Special Snowflake'. I didn't say that, @Rhoynn did. My line is quoted right above, 'Biggest snowflake' and it wasn't in quotes or said in insult or as any direct focus of that sentence. If you took it in a negative way, then you need to recheck your internal emotions because that was not my intent. The guild was structured like how I described, during the time I was in it and the few alts I tried to create and be part of it. There was little if any communication and I was basically told to start a project and maybe someone would join in. I was encouraged to be the most interesting researcher (hence the biggest snowflake comment) so I would attract others to it. Most of those alts are suicided now, because I didn't find purpose to stay. I also still use the class on my shadow-aligned alt.

    A guild/org being destroyed has happened before and the people who cling to it so strongly that they can't move on, quit the game. So stop doing that for your own good. It does hinder the class' evolution, with example given to how long people clung to the Priests and Infernal/Paladin skillsets.

    If you are going to post angry, think and reread it first. I have the unpopular opinion, but it is my opinion and not something for you to twist to make me seem like a monster. The guild had issues for real life YEARS and no one did anything to improve it. I was replying to a specific person who seemed to come off a bit possessive. He's not the only one hurt by this turn of events.

    EDIT: I also don't understand why it couldn't be saved. We don't have the details, so to outsiders it feels like nothing was tried. A world event, a simple retooling of the flavor of the skills (like Indorani got with bonedagger), a new GM, and a bit of divine guidance towards a goal they can sink their teeth into and the guild would be swimming in numbers. Did the guild even get an RP sendout, like an NPC contemplated a complex prime and just detonated the guildhall? (Like good ole suicide mouse that blew up old Ashtan? And Alien-Drek nukes that blew up Ashtan a second time?)
    Post edited by Leana on


    MihaketiXeniaRunas
  • MihaketiMihaketi Member Posts: 65 ✭✭✭
    @Leana: Your consistent ad hominem and veiled attacks on people in this thread and the guild are pretty gross. I feel like you didn't read the disagreements with you in detail, or at least aren't willing to address what was said or asked without being unpleasant, so I'm going to respectfully decline to comment further and express a final hope that the admin keep the concerns raised here in mind going forward.
    XeniaRunasLinLeanaMegiddo
  • SeirSeir Seein' All the Things Getting high off your emotionMember Posts: 972 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think the important thing here is to focus on the Cabalists rather than the attacks against others. This is an important thread, as this is potentially something that can grow as a solution by the administration to guilds beyond just the Cabalists. For the sake of discussion, let us all please not turn this caustic and get the thread closed. I'm not pointing out anyone in particular, but emotions are obviously going to be high on this subject (and understandably so), so let's just focus on the issue at hand rather than attacking others.
    LeanaSatomiXavinFyrren
  • SatomiSatomi Member Posts: 225 ✭✭✭
    edited January 24
    Adding to what @Fezzix said, I remember a time when Grimdale and myself were the only active Carnifex. (It was during a period when Moirean was temp-banned) and he and I were basically trying to throw the ball back and forth of who should be Guildmaster.

    I'm like most people, I have no idea what was happening in the Cabalist. Never really RP'd with Cabbie people, and did my own snowflakey thing, but hey.. if this leads to a Cabbie revamp and the ability to just remake the guild in your own image, do that. You can still have all the old Cabbie stuff, just augmented with the new stuff, right?

    Edit: @Seir 'member when Carnifex were being forced into Bloodloch and it got emotionally caustic? (Sorry, couldn't help it, 'member berries) I agree wholeheartedly with that post!

    LeanaMegiddo
  • MihaketiMihaketi Member Posts: 65 ✭✭✭
    @Akaryuterra The Wheel turns. :( Thank you for that post, it puts a lot into context.
    Fyrren
  • LeanaLeana Member Posts: 84 ✭✭✭
    edited January 25
    I didn't try to troll anyone or be abusive. I'm sorry. I really loved the Cabalist guild and skills and I was extremely bitter about it suddenly being gone. I lashed out at @Rhoynn and @mahaketi more than I intended to. I'm like a lot of Aetolia players and have other characters, so it's not Leana specifically that was harmed, though that was the class I mained when I was on the shadow side. I'm going to just back off, especially since @akaryuterra gave us a good overview of everything and now I have a better understanding of their choices. I still don't agree, but maybe something better will come out of it.

    Edit: I hit spacebar by mistake and it auto posted.


    AkaryuterraFyrrenXenia
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