City and Guilds - Goals and Consequences

245

Comments

  • FezzixFezzix Member Posts: 129 ✭✭✭
    Vaskar said:

    As far as the Carnifex go, though... the last time I was active in this game I am pretty sure that something like 80%+ of the Carnifex guild were Spirean. I think there were maybe two active Bloodlochian members and one of them was me. If that's still the case it may just be better to give the guild the option of switching its flag to Spiresreach. Maybe do something with the undead Houses to replace the missing guild?

    Making a permanent shift to put the Carnifex in Spinesreach will not fit, both lore-wise and population-wise. Spinesreach is thematically a city of shadows, intrigue, and hoarded forbidden knowledge. The Syssin, Sciomancers, and Cabalists fit in with this theme well in their intended incarnations, but I don't see how the Carnifex MO of overt brutality, slaughter, and soul enslavement would fit. Especially not when compared to Bloodloch.

    The game's balance has three guilds per city, and Spinesreach already has its three guilds that fit there better than anywhere else. Putting in a fourth guild would make Spines too crowded, and trading one of our current guilds for the Carnifex would force said guild into a city where it thematically doesn't fit and leave Spinesreach with two "military/combat" guilds. The balance just isn't there.
    ZailaRhoynnPilarRunas
  • NeomaNeoma Member Posts: 92 ✭✭✭
    Lin said:

    Bloodloch's admitted non-undead several times in its past, it's not a big deal.

    I think the difference is Undeath. Bloodloch citizens use to be Blooded or Living, and the Infernals and Indorani were living guilds in Bloodloch. I think things changed when Undeath came out, thus allowing people to be Undead and have the same goals as the Blooded and even allowed to be part of Houses. From there Bloodloch went to Undead only.

    Personally I am torn between Bloodloch being Undead only or allowing Living citizens, I am unsure what would be best for the city and the game in general. I would like to understand the pros and cons of it all.
  • TozToz Member Posts: 2,153 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Rhyot said:


    Edit: In all honesty, I'm a little disappointed in those who play in the Carnifex. You guys have a code that says guild first, city second. Great! But when push comes to shove, you're spitting on that roleplay/lore just so you can stay in Spinesreach. Seems a little contradictory to me. I get having personal reasons for not wanting to join Bloodloch. Sure, we're not exactly the most livened city (no pun intended), but at least give it a chance, yes? This is not an attack to players, just something I hope you guys spend a little more time thinking about before you ultimately go, "unicorns this unicorns I'm out." and drop your ENTIRE roleplay just to stay Spirean. BL has just as much to offer as Spinesreach does and we can work something out.

    If this was a guild decision, we'd have run the GM that tried it off. This isn't a guild decision though, and it isn't one that is for the good of the guild. Part of 'guild first' means doing what's best for the guild, and in this case on some weird semi-meta level? It's best for us to quit the guild, because if we stay and resist like it makes sense for us ICly to do, then the guild runs the risk of being deleted/it gives @Oleis a headache. Sometimes the winning move is to go find another game board.
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "I'll still never forget the first time I saw Toz throwing hammers."
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "I freaked out and thought they had somehow managed to pull me into them."
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "So I tumbled away from my team and into theirs."


    LinKelliaraXeniaRunas
  • NeomaNeoma Member Posts: 92 ✭✭✭
    Rhyot said:



    Cons:
    - Bloodloch loses its status as City of Undeath

    Ok if the only con to Bloodloch accepting living is loosing the name then we better get a pretty damn cool name if it all happens. :p

    Ok another question, Would Loch accepting living alleviate some of the problems the Carnifex face and allow then to become a Bloodloch guild?


  • LeanaLeana Member Posts: 84 ✭✭✭
    What's happening now with guilds is what happened to Bloodloch when undeath was released as a mechanic. Bloodloch should of lost its 'Undead city' status the moment there was that OOC Producer meeting declaring the struggle between living and undeath was being dropped(Years ago). Continuing on this path has only confused more people's roleplay and motivations.

    The Carnifex need to realize that they've been roleplaying not as Carnifex, but as some sort of fantasy knight class that they've made up. I remember when Xenia had that roleplay with Slyphe about one of her Warhounds and when I finally made a Carnifex, I was kinda shocked. It seemed like Xenia truly cared for her warhound as though it were a partner, like the old Falcons. But a Carnifex actually treats the dogs like meat. Butchering them, beating them within an inch of their life, and killing them when it's time for a replacement. When you get rid of a dog during breeding, you end up with a meat item. ACTUAL MEAT. It just doesn't seem to connect with what I saw on the outside.

    For those who want to quit, you're probably right to do it. The guild has never been the sort of RP you've wanted to be, but were trying to make it work and that is commendable. I think the displaced Carnifex would have a better chance roleplaying within Spinesreach in a more Military-style loyalty-knight rp than what the Carnifex are supposed to be on paper - A brutal, violent, horrible group of people who do horrible bad things in service to their gods/city.

    In my opinion, if you're looking for a guild to not be guildless, I think the Syssin are your best bet. The whole 'Secrecy' thing isn't so far off from the 'following orders, keep your mouth shut' aspect of a Knight. Manipulation isn't always just subtlety, it can be intimidation which is a good transition. The Syssin and the displaced also have extreme loyalty to Spinesreach, so there's common ground. Plus, I don't think any of the displaced are vampires either.


  • RhyotRhyot BloodlochMember Posts: 180 ✭✭✭
    Toz said:

    Rhyot said:


    Edit: In all honesty, I'm a little disappointed in those who play in the Carnifex. You guys have a code that says guild first, city second. Great! But when push comes to shove, you're spitting on that roleplay/lore just so you can stay in Spinesreach. Seems a little contradictory to me. I get having personal reasons for not wanting to join Bloodloch. Sure, we're not exactly the most livened city (no pun intended), but at least give it a chance, yes? This is not an attack to players, just something I hope you guys spend a little more time thinking about before you ultimately go, "unicorns this unicorns I'm out." and drop your ENTIRE roleplay just to stay Spirean. BL has just as much to offer as Spinesreach does and we can work something out.

    If this was a guild decision, we'd have run the GM that tried it off. This isn't a guild decision though, and it isn't one that is for the good of the guild. Part of 'guild first' means doing what's best for the guild, and in this case on some weird semi-meta level? It's best for us to quit the guild, because if we stay and resist like it makes sense for us ICly to do, then the guild runs the risk of being deleted/it gives @Oleis a headache. Sometimes the winning move is to go find another game board.
    That's a valid point. But can I ask one simple question...

    Is the thought of going to Bloodloch and being a Bloodlochian really that bad? And if so, what are your issues of doing so?

  • TozToz Member Posts: 2,153 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 1
    Rhyot said:

    Toz said:

    Rhyot said:


    Edit: In all honesty, I'm a little disappointed in those who play in the Carnifex. You guys have a code that says guild first, city second. Great! But when push comes to shove, you're spitting on that roleplay/lore just so you can stay in Spinesreach. Seems a little contradictory to me. I get having personal reasons for not wanting to join Bloodloch. Sure, we're not exactly the most livened city (no pun intended), but at least give it a chance, yes? This is not an attack to players, just something I hope you guys spend a little more time thinking about before you ultimately go, "unicorns this unicorns I'm out." and drop your ENTIRE roleplay just to stay Spirean. BL has just as much to offer as Spinesreach does and we can work something out.

    If this was a guild decision, we'd have run the GM that tried it off. This isn't a guild decision though, and it isn't one that is for the good of the guild. Part of 'guild first' means doing what's best for the guild, and in this case on some weird semi-meta level? It's best for us to quit the guild, because if we stay and resist like it makes sense for us ICly to do, then the guild runs the risk of being deleted/it gives @Oleis a headache. Sometimes the winning move is to go find another game board.
    That's a valid point. But can I ask one simple question...

    Is the thought of going to Bloodloch and being a Bloodlochian really that bad? And if so, what are your issues of doing so?
    I'm gonna not reply to the people saying 'Carnifex weren't playing Carnifex right' because that's a whole...long, angry fight, but I will say that given what we had to work with at the start, what came out of it was exceptional.

    At @Rhyot, for me personally? I tried playing in BL on an alt. It was miserable, the only 3 people I could ever find that weren't AFK, 2 went to play different characters and 1 retired leaving me to sit afk in the city myself. I tried starting stuff a few times, tried reaching out, and never had any luck. City's too quiet for me, I don't enjoy vampires as a theme at all, and don't care much for undeath either. It's just a city that needs plenty of work (imo) and it isn't an org I find compelling to join and work on, especially so fresh on feeling like I'm losing all my work on the last org I participated in.
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "I'll still never forget the first time I saw Toz throwing hammers."
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "I freaked out and thought they had somehow managed to pull me into them."
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "So I tumbled away from my team and into theirs."


    LeanaRhyot
  • RasaniRasani Member Posts: 119 ✭✭✭
    I don't think anyone is TRYING to undermine what the Carnifex are. You guys have a thriving guild, and that's cool. They're just saying that what lore you guys DO have doesn't line up with the lore you guys self created. That doesn't mean the org was bad, not by a long shot, just means it didn't go in the intended direction. Whether or not it should is up for debate and it's a race I don't really have a horse in, but the last thing I want is for people to assume we're like "hey you guys unicorns it up" cuz you didn't, you've had a very strong guild.

    Rhoynn
  • RhoynnRhoynn HartfordMember Posts: 65 ✭✭✭
    I'm going to just kind of pop in here with a little bit of a different POV. I'm fortunate in that Rhoynn, and my alts, are not at 'risk', to put it one way, with the consequences and differences of these upcoming changes. The cities and guilds they reside in are very much firmly rooted in where they are. However, I've had the fortune of interacting with a multitude of people from across a multitude of guilds and cities and various different loyalties and I've seen the way they're stressing about the coming changes.

    I've always been a bit confused with the Carnifex. Especially upon moving to Spinesreach, the Cabal was very clear to me (It is why I moved, after all), the Syssin makes perfect sense, and the Sciomancers to me (And I know this is simplifying) seemed just like darkie Ascendril. Which, in a way, I guess they are, but that still makes them fit well into the particular ancient-yet-metropolitan vibe Spines has going on. It kind of reminds me of, say, London, actually. Modern exterior built atop and alongside older ruins with a seedy underbelly.

    Carnifex were a bit of a wrench in the gears of that portrait. Rhoynn met a lot of wonderful individuals who were Carnifex and who were firmly Spirean, as well. He's met some people, also, that seemed to have been Atabahi before their closure too. There's also the errant Teradrim and vampire in the city that gives it that bohemian vibe. But the Carnifex having one place in the city, and a GH outside any city, and, for a while, a prominent Spirean as their leader made them seem Spirean in loyalty, but when you dig into their skills and lore and what they say they do, it always seemed a bit...overt and vicious to be Spirean.

    Just like @Toz I've got a vampire alt in BL. It's been an interesting experience. The few, RARE occasions I was able to get some roleplay with people, it's been amazing. There's such a rich backstory to the Vampire bloodlines and the Dominion and Houses. But then, seemingly almost -separate- to that, you have the guilds, and I never learned or heard much about the Indorani or Teradrim on my alt. Most people seemed to second-class as Shapeshifter or Indorani, and Carnifex was simply not mentioned. I don't really know if 'locking' a guild to their city and prohibiting outside members to join entirely is the best solution, but I do believe that firmly rooting Carnifex back to Bloodloch, and, if what is said is true, shifting Bloodloch to a place that would (Perhaps, maybe begrudgingly? Accept the Living) and just doing away with non-vampire undead ENTIRELY would help revitalize the place.

    As an MKO transplant, I kind of see Spinesreach and BL as two very different facets of Sar-Sargoth. For those of you unfamiliar, SSG was the only 'baddie' city in the triad of MKO. It was led and almost primarily populated by dark elves, with a minority population of humans, goblins, elves, etc. The dark elves saw every other race as a displeasing, but necessary, addition to their populace who were treated as lower-class citizens and it made for some interesting intra- and inter-city conflict on that front.

    I could see the locking of Carnifex and the opening up of Living citizens as a good thing to bolster BL. I could see, perhaps, a slow mechanical shift away from basic Undead status, too, since I was drawn to Aetolia, in part, cuz it was branded as the 'Vampire IRE'. Regular undead people kind of defeat that purpose. All the 'darkness', none of the mechanical ups and downs, I can see its appeal, but it strips Vampires of their place. Instead, I would think a good path to move on is to maybe downplay the Houses, make the Dominion a 'guild-like' entity as a whole, since Praenomen is a class and there is, already, an inherent hierarchy based on who you were Sired by, and leave Carnifex as the brutal, moral-less defenders of the City of Vampires. Living citizens, or unsired vampires (Nightwalkers? Nightstalkers? I can't remember) could be seen and treated like second-class citizens, too. So you could have people totally allowed to live as Living in the city, with a pressure (But not a requirement) to become a vampire to 'truly' serve Bloodloch.

    I think that way, you'd make people a lot more comfortable with BL, see an influx of new characters sticking around and alts or old people coming back, in time, and remove that 'stigma' as @Rhyot put it. Again, I can't really speak to the Carnifex, and I am certainly sure they're not the only guild that needs some redirection and some fixing, and I also realize this has gotten a bit rambly so I'll just leave it here.
    image
  • XeniaXenia Member Posts: 886 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Ryot, me leaving the Carnifex at this time was the best way to ensure a peaceful IC outcome. As@Toz said, any Commander who attempted to change the loyalties would have been viewed as a traitor and someone Xenia would have attempted to run off. This isn't Alathesia's fault and the last thing I want is to snuff out something over bitter feelings. However for me, it would have felt forced and less immersive if the change had come around and Xenia had just been like, 'Ok, I accept this'. Instead I chose to have her leave before it came to light in game.
    image
    Rhyot
  • XeniaXenia Member Posts: 886 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Leana said:


    The Carnifex need to realize that they've been roleplaying not as Carnifex, but as some sort of fantasy knight class that they've made up. I remember when Xenia had that roleplay with Slyphe about one of her Warhounds and when I finally made a Carnifex, I was kinda shocked. It seemed like Xenia truly cared for her warhound as though it were a partner, like the old Falcons. But a Carnifex actually treats the dogs like meat. Butchering them, beating them within an inch of their life, and killing them when it's time for a replacement. When you get rid of a dog during breeding, you end up with a meat item. ACTUAL MEAT. It just doesn't seem to connect with what I saw on the outside.


    That is one interpretation of how a Carnifex and hound relationship should go. My own was closer towards - this hound is useful, I care about this hound. This hound is not useful, it's as good as meat and will likely be fed to my more useful hound. What I don't understand is how it would even make sense, in a self-centered mindset, to actively damage something of value. I get that a lot of people would have preferred to see the Carnifex be these stone-gargoyles, flat, stoney and cold. But gosh that's so exhausting and boring to play.
    image
  • TozToz Member Posts: 2,153 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2
    It's definitely mechanics > RP, which is why I'm backing off and leaving @Khiral - not right of me to try to force things to stay. I was happy with how they were, things were working well as they were, and I wish the new group luck/all the best. It's still going to sting, and there's no way I'm interested in staying with these changes.
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "I'll still never forget the first time I saw Toz throwing hammers."
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "I freaked out and thought they had somehow managed to pull me into them."
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "So I tumbled away from my team and into theirs."


    XeniaAxiusKelliara
  • AngrothAngroth Member Posts: 55 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2
    This is not productive.

    Edit: But let's be honest, it's accurate.
    Post edited by Angroth on
  • RouxRoux Member Posts: 105 ✭✭✭
    I'd just like to mention first, that this is really leaving a sour taste in my mouth because it's going to heavily alter one of my mains. It's such a mechanical push that's going to force RP decisions on all sides. The effort some people took to get where they are, either in the guild or city, is going to be wasted. Lighters or darkies who had to earn their way in will now have to just up and leave, start new elsewhere. If they are banned from the city of their guild home? Will the admin force cities to accept people? Outright banning is more or less against admin rules, but ruling factions can make it very difficult for someone to get back into a city.

    What about the very real situations where people end up being run out of a city? It's happened a number of times and not always with just reason. These people would be forced to just remain without a city because there's no other avenue for them unless they want to lose their guilds as well. That's putting a lot of control into the hands of other players, potentially ruining a city and guild connection for an unfortunate caught in the crosshairs of a few loud folk able to push their way.

    Additionally, what about people who have player houses in the city they call home? That's often a lot of credits sunk into a place. Are people going to be refunded for the forced decision? Will they get a free transfer of their house if it happens to be in the opposing city?

    I'm just really having a hard time seeing anything positive about this sort of dramatic change and I'm sorry if I've come off a little aggressive.
  • OleisOleis Producer Emeritus Member, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 1,393 admin
    edited January 2
    We've established that being cityless is an entirely valid choice, if not an ideal one. We're going to continue to highly encourage city leaders to leave their cities open to those who wish to join unless there's a clear record of failure to adapt, and that includes working with the person in question. A lot of what you're worried about is in many ways the goal of this change, though -- If you do something to merit being run out of a city, why are you not also in the bad graces of that city's guilds? (Barring leadership malpractice, which is a thing that happens occasionally and it's something we'd discuss if you felt it came up). What compelling city or guild identity is so detached from the daily practices of the world that you can cause uproar and upheaval in one without affecting the other? It's this abandonment of verisimilitude in the pursuit of accommodation that a spread-out org policy fosters, and it's something that's going to be effectively incompatible with any sort of city or guild-based war system.
    You say to Slyphe, "You're so freaking smart."
    [---]
    "^," Slyphe agrees with you.
    RunasFezzixXeniaLin
  • EmelleEmelle the Seer Seer's WoodMember Posts: 711 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2
    So @Oleis, just to clarify: For those of us for whom this change creates a conflict between city and guild, the expectation is that we will invent some IC reason to leave one of our orgs? In other words, there will be no additional motivation provided by admin in the form of an event or other IG development?
  • OleisOleis Producer Emeritus Member, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 1,393 admin
    Emelle said:
    So @Oleis, just to clarify: For those of us for whom this change creates a conflict between city and guild, the expectation is that we will invent some IC reason to leave one of our orgs? In other words, there will be no additional motivation provided by admin in the form of an event or other IG development?
    I'd like to explore smaller-scale events with cities to make this feel more natural. I don't think there's a suitable global event for this purpose. 
    You say to Slyphe, "You're so freaking smart."
    [---]
    "^," Slyphe agrees with you.
    EmelleRunasZaila
  • ArbreArbre Arbrelina Jolie Member, Guildmaster Posts: 1,999 mod
    I'm at the point now that I feel like I'm in a holding pattern. There's no point in progressing in the guild farther / doing more than the bare minimum because I'm fixin' to have to leave it. I don't, however, have a good IC reason to leave it NOW and start something new.
    Fezzix
  • TenshyoTenshyo Member Posts: 376 ✭✭✭
    Rasani said:



    The Illuminai, to my knowledge, are about to deal with a similar issue. The Templar have long been Enorian only (though we JUST opened our ranks to Duiran, doh) , but the Illuminai were sort of the same as the Carnifex: You put the guild first and you're good. There may, in fact, be changes that happen to make it impossible for Duiran to fit in, otherwise we've got to sort of in game assume people just up and leave.

    I'm not sure how it will work out. It sounds like the Carnifex are about to take a big hit, and the same may be true for the Illuminai.

    We have, to my immediate knowledge, a few members who will be affected by this change - and I know one of them will be rather quite unhappy about it.

    Though overall, Illuminai will be left un changed.

  • RoxiRoxi Reno, NVMember Posts: 18
    edited January 3
    There's no point in sharing my outlook, clearly.
    Post edited by Roxi on
    "
    TozArbreAxiusJensen
  • TozToz Member Posts: 2,153 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 3
    Yawn.
    - Carnifex hounds were brutally beaten until the revamp, when they actually took that away from us. It had the same explanation then as it does now - beat them/turn them into meat if they're worthless. If they work, then why risk damaging the goods?
    - Re vs Dhar: that's an awful conflict axis. We tried that, we gave it a few tries in fact, and between another PC getting slapped down by the entire pantheon for trying to hurt a god (forget who, but all the gods apparently take offense to trying to kill a single god), a dropped plotline or six, etc. going after Dhar was stupid and pointless as a guild direction. We tried getting special rezz setups etc. (why does Dhar even allow Spireans to rezz, by your logic?) and were told no, so we just sort of ignored it like the rest of the stuff that wasn't working because trying to kick a square peg into a round hole is a waste of everyone's time.
    - The statement we 'sold our rich lore for membership' is pretty laughable, given the only lore that exists for Carnifex was player-written and worked on, not something given to us. What is Deathlore? Nobody knows, we just made it up. All that ritual-y stuff done about Deathlore? Who knows if that's even canon. We used to sit on ICS and unicorns about what it might mean/how it might work, and eventually we figured out what sounded 'close enough' based on what we can do with our skills (can stop weapons with a shield of souls, so they can move physical objects, etc.) We never cared about membership, we cared about being a good guild, and because we were a good guild (and tended to be on the smaller side for the first half of release), we were extremely active.
    - 'Ignore being mean to novices' is pretty...I actually am going to just drop the list here.

    I have no idea what weird reality you play in as Volka, I have no idea if you ever come out of your haven. I know I'm not the most active lately, but between throttling a protege while dangling them over a balcony, a long and celebrated history of kicking the piss out of people in formation for screwing up, watching @Xenia give people all sorts of unicorns in various forms of abuse for stepping out of line, and the rest? I call BS on that entire frankly offensive rant. There was, at one point, a push to have a more 'inclusive' Specialist RP that traded certain perks for the ability to join the Keep outside the usual hierarchy, but it was originally supposed to be offered to only people who were especially useful, and as a means to bolster what we lacked in a few areas - with @Xenia taking over, I'm also 99% sure we scrapped the system.

    This rant indicates an extreme misunderstanding of the history, the way things went at the start, and what lead us to this path. If, as it seems they do, the admin want their evil knight guild back and in BL? Fine. But to say we 'walked away in favor of membership' when in reality we were left to fend for ourselves and make things up that worked (esp. in regard to the fun others had - our slaughter trips got a lot of forum complaints so we softened the edge) highlights some pretty massive ignorance of the subject at hand.

    You aren't a full member, you don't show up to stuff that I have ever seen, and you're here spitting on the last 6 RL years worth of play that went into something while apparently having no idea what you're talking about.

    EDIT: In fact, Roan got deleted/killed in retaliation for some event Chakrasul did against Dhar's temple. Just, boop dead/gone forever. Which left us without a tutor for roughly two weeks. And then we tried to do an event to fight back, it got forgotten about, picked up at the last second and resolved with a 'you unicorns up fight this super powerful npc goodbye'. Top tier conflict axis imo.
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "I'll still never forget the first time I saw Toz throwing hammers."
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "I freaked out and thought they had somehow managed to pull me into them."
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "So I tumbled away from my team and into theirs."


    LeanaRoxiAxius
  • ArbreArbre Arbrelina Jolie Member, Guildmaster Posts: 1,999 mod
    I have been doing my best to be positive. I have been doing my best to try to find a way in which I end up on top. I have been doing my best to trust Oleis, because I DO trust him and I recognize that I'm too close to the situation to be unbiased.

    Maybe this is the best solution. Maybe it isn't. I can't determine that because I can't see the big picture clearly. All I see is stuff I've worked on for the past nine months going down the drain.

    I guild- and city-hopped enough that getting into Spinesreach took me about a real life month. Getting into the Carnifex took time on top of that. I joined Spinesreach because I hate Bloodloch - it didn't make sense with Arbre's RP anyways, which spared me the issue, but if push had come to shove, I would have come up with some excuse for her to join Spinesreach because I have no interest, as a player, in Bloodloch. I joined the Carnifex more out of player motivations than character. I couldn't really imagine how Arbre was going to manage fitting into a military structure but I was willing to try it just to enjoy the game. With a lot of help from Toz and Xenia, I managed to eck out a place in the guild where she fit in and belonged. I have been minding my p's and q's in Spinesreach and trying to build up a positive reputation there. I've been working HARD in both instances. Does Arbre fit the mold of a stereotypical Carnifex? No. Not even close. She's more than a stereotype; she's a living, breathing person, with strengths and flaws, beliefs and fears. She didn't join the guild and immediately assimilate - following the rules properly took time. But I've reached the point where I consider Arbre a Carnifex. Not just because she's in the guild and therefore one by default, but because she sincerely believes in their ideals.

    These ideals, practices, and laws came from a lack of admin interaction. Exactly WHICH admin's fault it is doesn't really matter; somebody - multiple somebodies - dropped the ball and left the guild without guidance. So a group of people in the guild got together and came up with their own practices. Everything the guild is right now has been built up by the players, and that's kind of cool in my mind. Aetolia sells itself on the players being able to change the landscape of the game, and that's what they did here. What they were given was very little and very empty - their whole purpose was just 'unicorns Dhar'. They took that and made a vibrant culture that allows people to progress based on merit.

    It's become a beautiful guild and I love it, and everyone who worked hard to make the guild what it is has the right to be angry that you're changing everything up. It isn't just a matter of "suck it up and join Bloodloch or be rogue". There are going to HAVE to be blatant changes in the guild to make this work. Is this a good thing? I don't think so, but like I said, I'm way too close to the issue and I recognize that.

    So the end result? I'm being forced to choose between the Carnifex and Spinesreach. I'm way more invested in the Carnifex than Spinesreach, though I know it's not going to be the same guild I joined by the time these changes are done. So what am I doing about it? Trying to come up with a plausible excuse to leave the guild, either now or by the time the changes come in. I made the decision as a player that I would enjoy Spinesreach more than the Carnifex by the time the dust settled. Does that make me a bad roleplayer? Maybe. But I don't care. I'm going to play the game how it's fun.

    I do want to comment that I hope that Oleis and crew stick their hands in quite personally and work with the guild during the transition. There are going to be a lot of hurt people, and I don't want Alathesia bearing the brunt of it just because she was unlucky enough to be the one in charge when it happened.

    Oleis, I'm stepping back, trying to stop my unicornsing about the situation, and take the hand I've been dealt. I'm trusting you not to unicorns this up.
    RoxiAxiusFyrren
  • OleisOleis Producer Emeritus Member, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 1,393 admin
    I may have said this in this thread, so apologies if I'm repeating myself: What we're doing now is essentially the change and direction that you're stating you wish you'd had years ago. This interesting, creative guild came to life from a vacuum of leadership and direction from the admin of the time, and no one was willing/able to course correct. Had the folks of those days been attending to this situation adequately, we wouldn't have experienced any of the ingenuity that came about within the Carnifex guild. But as you all have agreed, that doesn't mean it's necessarily a good answer for the long-term health of the game.

    @Roxi: Because vampirism is separate from the guild structure, it's staying as-is right now in terms of city allegiance. But Dominion changes of their own are coming.

    @Arbre: That's the plan. :heart:
    You say to Slyphe, "You're so freaking smart."
    [---]
    "^," Slyphe agrees with you.
    LeanaRoxiAkaryuterra
  • AishiaAishia Queen Bee Member Posts: 1,821 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Kind of reminds me of merging Daru and Luminaries and that seemed like LESS of a culture shock, think even today only a fraction of them actually went with it. And many major players playtime and engagement really never recovered fully.




    Leana
  • LeanaLeana Member Posts: 84 ✭✭✭
    edited January 3
    Since this -will- happen, it's best to begin the small scale internal RP now or as soon as possible. It may be happening already, but if not, org leaders need to get on that so there's far less fallout.

    Edit: To add: "Since people are already quitting and leaving city."
    Post edited by Leana on


Sign In or Register to comment.