Language barriers

Malok · December 2014

So, I was thinking about this earlier tonight at work.

How many of you in Aetolia, or any Iron Realms game for that matter, came across a language barrier issue? As in, perhaps the player's first language isn't English and that it's painfully obvious? How do you react? Do you work with the person to the best of your ability and ignore it, or do you choose to just not associate with that character?

In my travels across Aetolia and Imperian, I've came across this issue more than once, and I honestly find it to be an intriguing one. I like being patient with these types of people and think it's a topic that isn't talked about very much.

I also find it interesting when people play their characters with language issues. Some people in the past found this cheesy and annoying, but I think it's absolutely awesome.

Discuss?

Konnorn · December 2014

For me, not having English as first language, I can often find that I feel what I write is misunderstood, because I phrase things the wrong way or because I have my characters act in a certain way. It's a Culture thing and sometimes, it feels like people don't understand that and they start thinking I've got a poor attitude or that I am out to get something.

I don't Think I will ever be able to work through that though. I've never lived in the US, so I don't know how to Think like an american.

Ishin · December 2014

Malok said:
So, I was thinking about this earlier tonight at work.

How many of you in Aetolia, or any Iron Realms game for that matter, came across a language barrier issue? As in, perhaps the player's first language isn't English and that it's painfully obvious? How do you react? Do you work with the person to the best of your ability and ignore it, or do you choose to just not associate with that character?

In my travels across Aetolia and Imperian, I've came across this issue more than once, and I honestly find it to be an intriguing one. I like being patient with these types of people and think it's a topic that isn't talked about very much.

I also find it interesting when people play their characters with language issues. Some people in the past found this cheesy and annoying, but I think it's absolutely awesome.

Discuss?

It's actually a big deal in MKO, but here and in the other IRe games, I've noticed it's not really a big deal. I like having one, myself, but that's just a gameplay/roleplay preference of mine, I suppose.

Teani · December 2014

I am not a native English speaker either, but I often find that many who -are- cheat and make grammatical mistakes. The main issue is not the language barrier as such, but the cultural differences that causes confusion and misunderstanding. What may be alright in one culture is not always true for another. Another thing is that because of this being a text-based game, one also misses out on the facial queues that would help distinguish certain undertones like sarcasm.

Ishin · December 2014

There are also things like connotations and context that differ a lot between OOC cultures. Like I know for sure I've made some jokes and @Teani has been like 'wtf Ishin are you hatin'?!' and then I have to stop and explain for 10 minutes about my joke. Which isn't funny then

Teani · December 2014

You're echoing me, @Ishin.

Eleanor · December 2014

In my experience, a person with english as a second language who is concerned about their delivery of english is pretty much always as readable or better than many native speakers. Have pretty much never run into someone in that situation who had anything to worry about.

Riluo · December 2014

I never used English until I moved to Australia, so I can relate to the barrier thing. I still screw up my English phrasing a lot.

Gwenith · December 2014

I am a native English speaker but I have roleplayed characters with language barriers and people do start to assume I'm not a native English speaker and I have had many, many things explained to me in small words.

Easiest way to excuse it and give a hint to people. that I use : Aetolian/common is not my native tongue.

Aishia · December 2014

I had a friend on another IRE game who spoke English pretty poorly, but over the course of a couple years it got really good.

Moirean · December 2014

I didn't really get how rp worked when I first started playing and phrased stuff oddly as a result trying to figure out how emotes and stuff were standardly written. Someone asked me if I was esl. I was too embarrassed to admit that I was just a newb to rp so I pretended I was German for my first month or so./tangent

Rashar · December 2014

@eleanor and @teani both right. People with English as a second language, especially if they learned it later in life or through study at a university or whatever (from what I've found) are usually very proper with their grammar and delivery. To the point where I've had trouble trying to communicate to them that sometimes, it's OK to break the rules. I'd echo Eleanor and say that most of them don't have much of a problem, if they actually care and take the time to not be sloppy. Which most of us are guilty of, in some form or another. If only we emoted and said things in the same style as we skype, ha.

Rashar raises his eyebrows and rumbles, "Wat u say? U r best git out my face dood."

[Deleted User] · December 2014

U WOT M8, I BASH UR HEAD IN I SWAR ON ME MUM!

All joking aside,
I have played IRE games for..12 years now. I have encountered people who play with readers, people with language barriers, people with varied disabilities which may inhibit comprehension and understanding.

That being said as a whole the community tends to be understanding, and even in those instances we have difficulty we work through it generally to a suitable result and even help to educate one another.

So that's a great thing and something to be proud of.

Yarel · January 2015

English is not my first language, though I did learn it at a pretty young age. I used to misunderstand people a lot when they used slang, or when they used abbreviations. Over the years it got a lot better, and other than the couple of players who annoy the hell out of me by pointing out my every mistake, it isn't too bad at all. I actually love how @Ellenia covers her occasional errors by RPing that Elle has a thick accent, and that people often misunderstand her.

That said, there was a time when certain people seemed to take every mistake as a sign of lack of intelligence or something equally stupid. I remember @Ellenia responding with the website for a French language mud and telling them "Let's see how fucking well you do in a foreign language, you dick sucker!"

Great times.

Haven · January 2015

@Ellenia

Teani · January 2015

I just thought I'd share a little something here, since this is about languages. Just to give you an idea of how many different words there are out there that can be ambiguous in other languages and how difficult it can be to convey the same concept when using another language. It is rather lol-worthy though. <.<

http://m.thelocal.se/galleries/news/2332

If you have any questions about it, don't hesitate to ask!

Aryanne · January 2015

I only just saw this thread, and wanted to generally agree that the folks who I've chatted with OOCly and found out were non-native-english speakers very often messed up their grammar LESS than many native speakers - and if there are mistakes, they tend to be things like being too specific and making something sound awkward because of the overly-correct-ness.

As a general question FOR ESL-y folks: How would you rather we approached you if we noticed you flubbing a noticeable hunk of your English? I'm sure it varies person-to-person, but would you generally prefer us to try and help/advise, or let it be and keep interacting with you unless we flat-out-can't comprehend?

I know I've always tried to seriously temper my Aryspeak if I notice anyone struggling with the English.

Arbre · January 2015

Everyone struggles with Aryspeak. Once you stop struggling with it, you start worrying about your own sanity.

Nalor · January 2015

Malok said:
So, I was thinking about this earlier tonight at work.

How many of you in Aetolia, or any Iron Realms game for that matter, came across a language barrier issue? As in, perhaps the player's first language isn't English and that it's painfully obvious? How do you react? Do you work with the person to the best of your ability and ignore it, or do you choose to just not associate with that character?

In my travels across Aetolia and Imperian, I've came across this issue more than once, and I honestly find it to be an intriguing one. I like being patient with these types of people and think it's a topic that isn't talked about very much.

I also find it interesting when people play their characters with language issues. Some people in the past found this cheesy and annoying, but I think it's absolutely awesome.

Discuss?

30% of Aetolian people are unicorns toward people who dont have English for a first language.. Instead of "Hey, Thats wrong you do it like this. or that word is meant to be this.."

Its more ... ITs YOU'RE not YOUR... and follows the ooc stuff from said people for next 20 minutes about your little grammer mistake its not like I called you a Toilet meaning to call you an ass.. Its just a little mistake GET over it..

I say this from a recent interaction and started hating on me for being not 'English speaker' ...

Sorry not meaning to Offending but thats pretty much what happened just before Xmas... And No I wont mention names

Areka · January 2015

I can't say I've heard of instances of people getting grief for not speaking as a first language. Being corrected? Yes. Having folk get p. unpleasant for repeated corrections? Sure.

However this hasn't been due to another language being native, as this happens with people who speak English as a first language as well and resort to just above chat speak. Unlike in WoW or SWTOR, all we have is the writing, so things are much more pointed than they might be in the guild dialogue in another MMO. Until you know someone OOCly, it can also be difficult to tell if they are ESL, 13 and still learning to type, or simply really lax.

So hearing something outside of that is a new thing for me! Hating on someone for ESL is a bit like hating on someone for having poor vision and using a screen reader, which is incredibly lame. Especially as English is not the most friendly language with learning from the raw, as we are so informal natively and very liberal with personal expression or colloquialism.

Except not Spanish because I can only say some colors and remark upon a lack of dangly bits.

Nalor · January 2015

I dont mean grief for not being 'English' more grief for doing wrong grammer considering English isn't the first languge and you don't know the person from adam... Well I take it as a pinch of salt and normally block or ignore them.. small minded people and all that.

I know my grammer isn't best but many factors come into play.. Where im from, English not the first language, and Slang.. and some words like Your / You're sounds fine in my head.. I dont want to talk out loud I might get arrested :P

Them I speak to oocly never say anything ...

Arbre · January 2015

Would you rather be (politely) corrected, or have the mistake ignored?

Areka · January 2015

What kinds of corrections are you being given? Is correcting you the same thing as being small minded? When things are IC, it's like having a few paragraphs on a story book be suddenly not quite as clear and require more interpretation from the rest of us, or maybe seem sloppy if we don't know the OOC information of who wrote it. When you're IC, it's canon, it's official, so expectations are more strict than chatting OOCly. It is a different kind of interaction with everyone else's story than an AIM or Skype convo.

Eugenides · January 2015

personally I'd rather see the mistake ignored. I don't know why, but it bugs me when I see someone *cough* and re-post an 8 line emote. because they managed to type to when they needed too. If you are logging it and plan to post, clean it up as you go. When I make one of my many many mistakes, I tend to toss a tell to explain. Or I just open up a web so we can chat as needed.

Eugenides · January 2015

*cough*

Eugenides · January 2015

Personally, I'd rather see the mistake ignored. I don't know why, but it bugs me when I see someone *cough* and re-post an 8 line emote because they managed to type "to" when they needed "too". If you are logging it and plan to post, clean it up as you go. When I make one of my many, many mistakes, I tend to toss a tell to explain, Or I just open up a web so we can chat as needed.

Nalor · January 2015

Arbre said:
Would you rather be (politely) corrected, or have the mistake ignored?

If its something simple like your instead of you're .. People get what it means so ignore it.. But if its in a book of course correct them.. But for simple things its normally best to ignore it or politely correct them..

Not "its You're not YOUR" .. no hey no hi no nothing.. thats rude. Politeness cost nothing

I dont mind being told im wrong.. if its politely and not made out like im a douch because personally I use your in everything meaning you're.. Same with They, There and Their I got post sticks on my monitor saying which is used when.. but I always fall back to They..

But Question, Long as it's not like txt u l8r ? Do people really care for small mistakes like that??

Ishin · January 2015

Maybe I'm the odd Americano, but to me "your" and "you're" actually sound different, and are pronounced different. When I speak properly, at least. When I talk fast, they generally get shaved down to like, "yer". Same with "there" and "their", but that one is less pronounced - prolly cause I use "yonder" like a boss >.>

Malok · January 2015

Yeah. I tend to pronounce your as y-or and you're as you-r

Ishin · January 2015

Malok said:
Yeah. I tend to pronounce your as y-or and you're as you-r

Exactly. y-oar, yew-rr. Or something like that at least.

Teani · January 2015

As someone who is not a native English speaker, I would prefer being corrected, albeit, as @Nalor says, politely. I don't think it hurts at all if someone sends me a tell saying "Hi, just so you know that's supposed to be you're, not your." At least if it happens consistently, because then the person might not have understood the difference between the two and that's an issue if they're going to write a post or book or whatever. It might help someone with improving grammar and it doesn't cost anything.

Most people, I would hope, will realize what is a small mistake compared to a lack of understanding proper grammar after interacting with someone for a while.

Also, those particular things (you're/your, they're/their/there, as well as it's/its) bring out the grammar nazi in me, so even I will correct those if I notice them.

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