Fighting in Retardation

Arbre · December 2013

This discussion was created from comments split from: Ankyrean Anguish - Aetolia-based RAGE.

Daskalos · December 2013

Xiuhcoatl said:

The small percentage of sect challenge acceptance.

That's because -no one- likes fighting in retardation vibe. I'm not trying to troll you, but I know multiple people who when they accept and see it's you and know that we're going to have to fight in retardation, they just necrosis out. I don't accept them because I refuse to fight in retardation vibe as it currently is. If you would fight in -any- other class you would get more challenges, but you don't. You're addicted to retardation vibe because it's your win button right now, and I can't say that I blame you, you're using the skills in front of you, but don't expect -anyone- else to like it.

Nalor · December 2013

Daskalos said:

Xiuhcoatl said:

The small percentage of sect challenge acceptance.

That's because -no one- likes fighting in retardation vibe. I'm not trying to troll you, but I know multiple people who when they accept and see it's you and know that we're going to have to fight in retardation, they just necrosis out. I don't accept them because I refuse to fight in retardation vibe as it currently is. If you would fight in -any- other class you would get more challenges, but you don't. You're addicted to retardation vibe because it's your win button right now, and I can't say that I blame you, you're using the skills in front of you, but don't expect -anyone- else to like it.

I think its more retardation plus him spamming 10000 cures per aff... plus spamming undead cures like trying to throw of peoples aff tracker.... I have a log of a lesser with him in it and I nearly cried at the amount of herbs he ate plus when he died the TONS dropping out of his inv (when people die stuff should drop out in 'bundles' not one at once)

Moirean · December 2013

He didn't use retardation when we fought.

I personally would like it if there was a sect duo/trio option, where you could get randomly paired up into teams of 2v2 or 3v3 (or maybe go in with premade teams). That'd be fun!

Xiuhcoatl · December 2013

Moirean said:

He didn't use retardation when we fought.

I personally would like it if there was a sect duo/trio option, where you could get randomly paired up into teams of 2v2 or 3v3 (or maybe go in with premade teams). That'd be fun!

That's because domination entities>vibes in retardation. A lot of the times even my channels were being broken by your entites in addition to your regular handaxe throws of paralysis. If I went for afflictions, entities similarly kept me hindered enough for it to result in a stalemate of being unable to lock you.

@Nalor 3 tries per affliction with stupidity. So that's 6 attempts per affliction. So 1000 tries in a second, would be limited to 9 attempts, 3 pipes, 3 salves 3 salves times 4, because my control for trying again is .25. So that's 27 attempts and the herbs and salves would be times 2 due to my attempting two different cures when I try to heal with either, (18+18+9)x4plus any defenses stripped AKA cohosh from stupidity stripping my insomnia. So per second the most attempts is 192. In 4 batches. You will never see that due to the recent stupidity change. The most you've seen from me in a second was 7 I believe. 3 organs, 2 organs and then 2 plants. Due to stupidity destroying 3 attempts to cure paralysis I believe.

Teani · December 2013

It shouldn't be possible to eat slices without it taking balance away for plants, nor vice versa. Might just be my opinion.

Macavity · December 2013

with the new addiction of the config ignore offbalcures, @Xiuhcoatl your system should not allow a false curing method anymore. I would be interested if you tested this yet and see if it does in fact negate your system

Ezalor · December 2013

It doesn't. Eating an herb as Undead does not take that curative balance, or vice versa. So his system curing does in fact still work.

Haven · December 2013

If people are eating both types of curatives at the same time to trick their opponent's affliction tracker (i.e., Hazzyq gives Rosalind paralysis and stupidity. Rosalind being alive, eats a lung slice then goldenseal so Hazzyq's system believes paralysis is cured instead of stupidity that round)...

While on one hand, it is kind of funny, clever and sneaky, it is also pretty lame in my opinion and makes me wonder why you'd even bother participating in PvP in the first place. As far as I'm concerned, it's in the same league as when people used to illusion "You have been slain by Varian." to trick systems into malfunctioning or pausing mid-fight. If you win (or in this case live longer due to malfunctioning offenses) because of it...it is not really due to your skill level/combat prowess at all. At the very least, what you begin to accomplish is isolate yourself and build resentment from other players. At most, you're making people fix the "hindsight error" and thus nulifying the tactic and planting you back in square one... What's the point?

Daskalos · December 2013

It's a lame tactic used by a lame player who uses nothing but lame tricks to accomplish his goals.

Teani · December 2013

I wonder if I can make a suggestion without getting tossed a glib to get over it. I'm not a very good fighter, though I try my best with what I know and what I have, as well as the time I wish to devote to combat stuff. I actually enjoy fighting most of the times. However, there are times like just a moment ago, when it's not even close to being fun.

Me and Jami were at a Lesser, waiting to see if we'd get some action, which is always exciting, and I'm always hoping to get a somewhat balanced fight, but that's rare. Anyway, Xiuhcoatl drops in, which is fine. It's one person and he can most likely kill at least me on his own with his tactics and system and all that. No worries! At least I get to fight some, even if I at this point have no illusion of surviving. :P

He drops retardation, of course, and it's alright. He's on his own against the two of us and knows by now that there's no hidden backup. But then there's some extra help from Ashmer, Ison, Cariv and Tina. Now... since Xiuhcoatl could probably stand against at least either of us on his own without problem, most likely both of us, this is just overwhelming. I don't mind the dying, but I'd like to at least have a little bit of fun doing it, you know?

So my question to you, @Xiuhcoatl, is if you could possibly at least -consider- not using retardation when you're attacking with superior numbers, to make it a little bit interesting for those involved from the other side?

Xiuhcoatl · December 2013

I actually told them to unicorn off and you two were mine. They kept coming after I said that. And then I unicorned at them for stealing my 200 sect points I would have gotten for the both of you. I dropped retard by using embed focus, which brings all vibes to you. I actually didn't know if I had retard up or not until the goon squad arrived. Nor did I have a choice in really using it. Why I asked Ezalor to include solution 1 in report 1447. So I don't HAVE to embed focus and then start dampening vibes or alternatively be off balance for like 20 seconds to embed all vibes one by one.

Teani · December 2013

There's always the option to not set retard before you tune them. That way you can focus all the other vibes and set retard outside of those when you need it. *shrug*

Ashmer · December 2013

Xiuhcoatl said:

I actually told them to unicorn off and you two were mine. They kept coming after I said that. And then I unicorned at them for stealing my 200 sect points I would have gotten for the both of you. I dropped retard by using embed focus, which brings all vibes to you. I actually didn't know if I had retard up or not until the goon squad arrived. Nor did I have a choice in really using it. Why I asked Ezalor to include solution 1 in report 1447. So I don't HAVE to embed focus and then start dampening vibes or alternatively be off balance for like 20 seconds to embed all vibes one by one.

We didn't notice you say anything in the travelspam.

Cariv and I were all, "It's cool, back off, we got this" on the clan, at least.

Trying to start getting it to even numbers, at least when we engage at lessers. I shoulda just stood around and waited for Xiuh and Ison to 2v2 you. Sorry. <.<

Moirean · December 2013

It's really gonna just stress you out trying to balance the numbers. People want to pop in and it's kinda sucky to tell citizens - especially the newer fighters - to stay out of a fight.

Teani · December 2013

@Ashmer: Yeah, the thing is Ison and Xiuh together against Jami and I is still two experienced top-fighters against two midlevel-just trying to get the hang of things- fighters. At least if there hadn't been retard involved, we could perhaps have gotten something done even if we'd have died. Anyway, at least I'm not discouraged from going to Lessers!

Medri · December 2013

Aren't you pretty much asking them not to use their class's most powerful and useful ability against you? Seems unfair to them.

Ashmer · December 2013

Moirean said:

It's really gonna just stress you out trying to balance the numbers. People want to pop in and it's kinda sucky to tell citizens - especially the newer fighters - to stay out of a fight

I can get it, and I am one of the new fighters looking for a fight. It might be wishful thinking, but something's better than nothing. I could have just waited while Xiuh cleaned up, for example.

Just thinking of ways to keep it a bit cleaner.

@Teani: Retardation is just kind of the name of the game when fighting mages, especially when it's 2v1 (which, in Xiuh's defense, he thought it would be). Xiuhcoatl's just a wily unicorn, too, and knows what he's doing. And I'm glad it hasn't discouraged you from going to lessers! I think they're an awesome addition to the game, in the time I've been gone.

Also, in my own Ankyrean Anguish, I find it disappointing when someone is deeply unpleasant with you IC over something said OOC, or vice versa.

Anyway.

Teani · December 2013

@Medri: I was saying I had no problem with him using Retardation when he was standing up alone against two people. I'm not lying, I'd be interested in seeing how Xiuhcoatl fairs without a skill that is looking to be revamped/removed because it annoys the majority of the playerbase, but if the skill is there, I see no issue in him using it to level the playing field. However, I think it would be kind of fair of him to take the few seconds of his time to dampen the vibe when he gets help from others. A slightly more balanced fight is more fun, and definitely more educational than getting killed in short order by being overwhelmed.

@Ashmer: I'll probably never stop going to Lessers (given time and no RP going on) because it adds to the character, even if it's a bit of a system outside the system with no retaliation. Plus, makes me able to participate and feel like I contribute. Also, I get to meet up with people on the other side and have a reason to perhaps strike up a conversation with someone later.

And I agree with @Ashmer on the IC/OOC thing.

Irruel · December 2013

Ezalor said:

It doesn't. Eating an herb as Undead does not take that curative balance, or vice versa. So his system curing does in fact still work.

I didn't realise this was being done. I think it is absolutely ridiculous - as much so as when people used emotes as illusions or (back in the day) doing things like "perform force setalias eat touch me"

I think the devs should code against it - eating opposite cures should not be possible, just as commands like setalias were made unforce-able, and doing things like using emotes as illusions is shrubbable.

Daskalos · December 2013

+1000 the previous post. So much this.

Oleis · December 2013

Help me out. Are you referring to something not covered by this? (Announce 2207)

* There is a new config option: CONFIG IGNOREOFFBALCURES. This option will allow you to filter the output when someone eats a curative while they don't have curing balance for that curative - i.e. it will not be displayed to you. This should make building your affliction trackers a lot easier! This option is for herbs/slices and pipes/tinctures only - salves/poultices already do this by default.

Moirean · December 2013

Apparently it's still not filtering out someone eating undead cures while living and vice versa. Report 1564 addresses this, btw.

Kaeus · December 2013

Would be quite amazing if it did ignore curatives that didnt even apply to your status as well.

Oleis · December 2013

Ah, thanks for clearing that up for me. I'll double check with Razmael to make sure that's an oversight rather than an intentional omission.

Macavity · December 2013

I really do not think report 1564 should be allowed to advance forward.... If someone has already coded into their system to track afflictions and the curing of those afflictions then they have the know how to create a simple trigger and module that tracks if a person is undead or living, and which cures to watch for in order to remove an affliction from their tracking system. Its not rocket science and people need to stop being lazy. To be honest I commend @Xiuhcoatl for using this in battle. In a realm full of automation and the other thread going crazy about it, things like this keeps people on their toes and stops them from having to rely on automation so much, or at least take additional time to code in the means to track properly.

Medri · December 2013

Wouldn't it be simpler to just prevent one side from eating the other's cures? You could throw in some flavor messages, like, say, "Injecting a tincture into your living body would only cause you harm" for living using syringes, or, "Your dead skin could not possibly absorb such a substance" for undead applying salves.

Aishia · December 2013

@Macavity It's about making things easier for new players. If there is a change that can make combat more accessible, whether or not people are being "lazy" is irrelevant. The fact that it's an easy fix in your system only makes it MORE sensible to prevent it anyways, not like it prevents automation. Why bog things down in more layers of complexity for no reason? It's clumsy.

Macavity · December 2013

I am certainly all about making combat more accessible to more people, however I fear that if we keep removing all the tactics that are used that annoy us the most, that we will get to a point where you just smash a few keys and hope you win. Or worse. an "I win" button

Combat is meant to be a challenge, and some people are more creative than others in giving such a challenge. Xiuh just happened to find one

Toz · December 2013

Sorry, we're already at that point. Every aspect of combat can be coded for now. So it's really only a matter of time before someone develops an absolutely efficient AI - and the little tricks are cute at first, but eventually they get coded around. It's not fixing the core problem, it's only slowing the AI advancement down by a fraction of a percent.

Macavity · December 2013

the only reason there is AI advancement is because there is a need for it there.

As Plato (a greek philosopher) stated before... "Necessity... the mother of invention."

Without someone testing our limits, systems, and what not, there would be no need to look at the code further and try to advance it even more. Including the addition of little case scenarios that could or could not happen and having the system to be able to decide the best route to handle such events.

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