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Group Tactics/Skills - What's too much?

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Comments

  • KylanKylan
    I saw someone mention about Luminaries not angel auraing, etc. The problem with that in team combat is that it's basically impossible to follow the large fights (3+vs3+ likely), this makes defensive skills much harder to deploy since you can't identify the best way to apply the skill(s),

    If combat was slowed down to a point where you COULD follow and react quickly, then team fights could be much more dynamic, but the mass and scale of fights in some cases would just mean that you're extending the point where the fight is much harder to follow. If the output of fights was slowed, you could see more room for more intricate tactics rather than who can instakill who the quickest.

    *Note: I realize I haven't fought for a long, long time, but the speed of combat hasn't got any slower since I dropped out. I remember Irruel (Or was it Macian?) putting forward the idea of slowing down cure speed/attack speed in line so that nothing is changed in the scope of 1vs1, but it'd make the fights easier to follow. For me, this could make team combat more open to wider tactics if it were easier to follow.
    AtrapoemaMoireanMinaraelAngwe
  • AtrapoemaAtrapoema
    To put this into perspective, that was suggested 2 or 3 years ago now. We saw nothing come of it. In fact, things have continued to get faster.
  • EzraxEzrax
    Which is, by the way, awesome for countries with a latency handicap like not-America.
    AtrapoemaBenedicto
  • XiuhcoatlXiuhcoatl
    edited June 2013
    @Slyphe
    Shamans are actually pretty valuable in PVP since they have a lot of good abilities that damage and afflict pretty well, plus they have a lot of combo-ability with their other classes. Teradrim on the other hand are the only people who have a bruising based offense on the undead side with few skills to actually help out in team combat. That and their offense is based on a slow build up, similar to why you don't see lycans in team combat unless there's a lot of them. 

    There are a lot of tactics for teamfights that push the group PVP spectrum. The only problem is, nobody has made it streamlined into an AI combat module toggled on by what classes are within a given group, and then dividing enemy targets up within the AI's ability to recognize and facilitate it. I personally believe that there could be some impressive combos used by large AI deployment into group combat, but given by how large of a scale we'd need to be talking about uniformity of clients and the openness of such an AI. So the best tactic will always be decent AOE damage to everyone on your enemy list in massed numbers AKA 7 Sciomancers doing 7k~ blunt damage to 20 people every 3.55 seconds, more or less depending on how much blunt protection you have and their intelligence. 
  • AngweAngwe I'm the dog that ate yr birthday cake Bedford, VA
    Which is, by the way, awesome for countries with a latency handicap like not-America.
    Ditto for people with not-awesome machines and systems with high memory demand.
    image
  • MastemaMastema
    Yes being half a second to a full second at points behind is not fun and makes combat very uneven over a few mins.
    Carnifex failing since 2011. Fixes coming Soon ™
  • IllikaalIllikaal Pray Area
    Xiuhcoatl said:
    @Slyphe
    Shamans are actually pretty valuable in PVP since they have a lot of good abilities that damage and afflict pretty well, plus they have a lot of combo-ability with their other classes. Teradrim on the other hand are the only people who have a bruising based offense on the undead side with few skills to actually help out in team combat. That and their offense is based on a slow build up, similar to why you don't see lycans in team combat unless there's a lot of them. 

    There are a lot of tactics for teamfights that push the group PVP spectrum. The only problem is, nobody has made it streamlined into an AI combat module toggled on by what classes are within a given group, and then dividing enemy targets up within the AI's ability to recognize and facilitate it. I personally believe that there could be some impressive combos used by large AI deployment into group combat, but given by how large of a scale we'd need to be talking about uniformity of clients and the openness of such an AI. So the best tactic will always be decent AOE damage to everyone on your enemy list in massed numbers AKA 7 Sciomancers doing 7k~ blunt damage to 20 people every 3.55 seconds, more or less depending on how much blunt protection you and their intelligence. 
    What Slyphe was more than likely referring to is that Shamans can't really dish out high damage without any real buildup, unlike a LOT of the classes out there right now. Yes, they definitely have some strong supportive abilities (like Overgrowth skills, Slam, and Strangle) but that's about it. Their overall teamfighting presence is definitely not as strong as something like a Templar, Daru/Monk, etc. 
    "And finally, swear to Me: You will give your life to Dendara for you are Tiarna an-Kiar."
  • XiuhcoatlXiuhcoatl
    edited June 2013
    @Illidan
    IME daru/monk aren't as bad without artis for damage, but with them they start pulling some pretty insane numbers. Templars on the other hand start as ZOMG and finish as http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/IMMA_45acf9_1022587.jpg . Kai banish on the other hand makes monks one of the best things to have in a teamfight right below a mage, getting to banish one person entirely from a fight turns a 4v5 monk v others into a 4v1 extremely fast and then the rolling quickly begins. 
  • IllikaalIllikaal Pray Area
    edited June 2013
    I wasn't talking about their raw combo damage. I was referring to BBT mostly, and JPK which nobody seems to take advantage of. There's always kai abilities too. 
    "And finally, swear to Me: You will give your life to Dendara for you are Tiarna an-Kiar."
    Xiuhcoatl
  • BenedictoBenedicto Tentacles Errywhere!
    I'm in the same boat in that Monks, though not necessarily Daru, make the best team class in the game. If you had a 4 people from a class facing 4 Monks in a team fight and they knew what they were doing, Monks should win every time.
    image
  • CorlinCorlin
    Boilingblood :(
  • TaelinTaelin
    Call me dumb, but I've seen this boiling blood thing for monks twice now and can't figure out which ability y'all are referring to. Halp a ignorant fellow out plz?
  • CorlinCorlin
    It's a zealot ability, and perhaps the only argument I'd make that says Zealots have an edge over monks.

    It lets us punch with broken arms. It reduces damage of those punches, but not the actual limb damage applied. It also lets us ignore a few affs that'd normally get in the way of melee, like clumsiness and blurry vision.

    So, breaking the arms of a zealot is only useful for negating our guard.
  • TaelinTaelin
    edited June 2013

    Lame...

    But Thanks for answering none the less.

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