Announce post #3123: Experimental Changes

Czcienn · July 2020

I really, really hope the celerity change is just reverted. Honestly, walking simulators just aren't interesting in a MUD context. Just let us go from point A to point B quickly enough so we can actually play the game. One of the biggest problems I had with flying through Starmourn's space system is that while it's cool to do the first 10 times, after that it just became a monotonous affair flying (i.e. autopiloting while I did other things) for 5-15 minutes just to get where I wanted. It just doesn't feel the same as travelling through space in a 3D game. In the context of Aetolia it's even worse because movement here is even less interesting.

But, if we really must live with this at least make it diminishing returns with "recovery" as it is now is just based on celerity rather than a separate value. For example, maybe the first 4 points of celerity each give 1 recovery, but after that it becomes 2 celerity for 1 recovery. This essentially raises the base recovery to 4, with most people being just 1 or 2 slower than before, while not requiring people to invest in celerity just to find that there aren't that many sources of recovery. Just makes the whole design process much easier (i.e. why should X skill give celerity and not recovery or vice versa).

Rihrin · July 2020

I'll just say that getting this news when I wake up, after work continually being a nightmare, really doesn't make a good start to the day. Everyone has made great points, but I want to throw in that I play the game to escape and relax. Now, I essentially feel like if I want to bash/PK/DO ANYTHING BESIDES RP - I have to dedicate hours of time to tweak system settings and I just don't have the time or patience for it in myself right now to do that level of work. Maybe if we had warning, and gradual changes on these, it wouldn't feel like such a heavy blow.

As others have said, these should have been warned about and people should have been testing them prior to implementation to give feedback. I don't even want to bother logging in right now because I know I'm going to get frustrated, so I probably won't. I'll go find something else to play (if I even have time TO play anything else) and see if any of these get reverted back to something sensible.

Teani · July 2020

When the last changes were made to limiting movement speed, I remember feeling incredibly drained, because I had spent hours on making a system that could take me anywhere in the world in mere seconds (and that's from someone who is not much of a coder). All that work was made completely useless. Since then I have built a new one. It's not a fast, due to mechanical reasons, but I suppose there is nothing I can do about that.

Now, though?
I don't really see the point to having the max 5 celerity, when recovery is just max 3. So, I can rush five , but then there's only three per tick? Why was that necessary?

Is it so you want people to enjoy the scenery more? The pathing system removes that anyway. Hell, I've spent a lot of time looking at descriptions already, and writing plenty of them too, so I feel like I deserve a chance to feel the wind in my hair as I blast across the continent on my sylph!

Is it for combat related stuff, like fleeing a fight? Well, put a clamp down on those who were just involved in pvp. Leave the mundane moving about alone.

Also, as a non-coder... if this elixir change makes me have to change anything in the system I have, I'll likely not be able to, nor have the energy to try to even contemplate changing to another sytem. The reason I've had this one for so long is because it doesn't have all the fluff and flashy ui that I find distracting as hell, and even though I don't know it that well, I've learned enough about it to tack on my own stuff to it. Not change the whole def or curing part of it!

Lin · July 2020

If you're a non-com the elixir change will be virtually unnoticeable to you, except maybe with high end bashing and your defup routine

Xavin · July 2020

For real, though, could someone please explain why the having any Celerity higher than your Recovery is worthwhile except for that initial burst of rooms? Do you recover all your celerity after doing something like leap? Is there something here we aren't seeing?

Teani · July 2020

Lin said:
If you're a non-com the elixir change will be virtually unnoticeable to you, except maybe with high end bashing and your defup routine

Not a complete non-com, so are you saying I'd likely have to make changes to my system if I want to fight?

Xavin said:
For real, though, could someone please explain why the having any Celerity higher than your Recovery is worthwhile except for that initial burst of rooms? Do you recover all your celerity after doing something like leap? Is there something here we aren't seeing?

If you want to hinder people from escaping a fight, it seems more reasonable to nerf the initial burst and then increase speed as you go (meaning the opposite of what is happening now), but yeah, I see no real reason to having two different numbers for celerity and recovery.

Kaiara · July 2020

Thanks, I hate it.

Bulrok · July 2020

10/10

Tenshyo · July 2020

Geeeeeeeeezzzzeee I have never seen a sudden change, across the board, be this vitriolic, and ALL of the changes make absolutely ZERO sense.

Why were they done/needed? What was the point? You had an otherwise perfectly functioning system of things before, and now this change (with no announcement or player discussion) just gets thrown out into the ether.

As many have said before, this takes the game back in a direction it shouldn't be going back to. It's wildly invalidating a ton of artifacts, and the ones I do have affected by this I'm just about to trade in.

I've read some bad patch notes/changes in my life, but I think this one easily takes the cake.

Czcienn · July 2020

Teani said:

Not a complete non-com, so are you saying I'd likely have to make changes to my system if I want to fight?

I think the elixir change is acceptable, even if not ideal. Sometimes there will be changes to how curing/affs/skills work that require some changes to systems. It's not reasonable to expect the game to evolve and become more balanced/interesting over time unless some bigger changes like this are made. This is especially true since firstaid handles most of it already and in most cases you won't even notice a difference. Unless you're looking to get into top tier pvp you probably don't even have to change anything.

Rhyot · July 2020

This are ALL dumb changes.

First of all, the elixir change is going to cause so many problems that people are going to start dropping like flies to voyria. If not that, then they'll get cheese damaged out because of poor immunity/health handling. Additionally, not everyone has the capacity to go into the system, modify their curing to handle for both and then move on. It was honestly best when they were two different balances.

Pit change - so essentially, this was nerfed drastically into pointlessness. Only strips once every 4 seconds but no longer immediately pulls if the target is prone and has levitation. This means that it's essentially a waste of time to try to use Pit. The Indorani has to summon Pit, ensorcell it, make it strip levitation (which is on a 1.4s balance time), and not die in 8s. Keep in mind that Pit yanking is on a tick timer not an immediate yank (unlike Purgatory). So really, Indo summons Pit, they get targetted, they die, Pit is over. Now.... the Purgatory equivalent is -superior-, is faster, and has absolutely no counter except "kill the wabbit". Zealot walks in, starts Purgatory and so long as they don't die in 6s.... it fires off pulling ALL aggressors into it. There's no check of levitation, no check of speed, no check of anything except that someone hit someone else. For a side that has very few entrenchment breaking abilities (whereas Spirit has many), this has eliminated yet another Shadow ability to get rid of entrenchment. Good job.

The celerity change is so bad that I can't even begin to explain how mind numbing it is. If I wanted travel to be slow as shit, I'd go play Eve Online. Have you ever had to jump 25 systems? You ever try to walk to BL from NoT with the recent changes? Feels very similar to me. Travelling to lessers/majors/orrery is going to be a giant pain and gives even less time to fight because of snail speed travelling. Even if it was a change to account for people running away from fights, there are a bounty of things you can do to stop people from running. Icewalls, web walls, web tattoo, piety/gravehands, Impale, Psi Tether, JPK stun, indoor room to stop leap/fly, BLOCK. Hunting Grounds and Sect are small enough as it is that you don't need these hindrances on speed movement to fight (which is where most combat is anymore barring global PK events like lessers/majors/orrery).

I'm not even going to touch on hiding abilities/illusions because I feel everyone else has done that superbly.

Either way... I think these changes are absolutely dumb. And I'll reiterate Rijetta: I don't like them.

Darim · July 2020

April Fools has long since passed.

Velana · July 2020

Celerity | 8 max
Recovery | 3

Tina · July 2020

I'll echo the changes have made the lifevision artifact incredibly overpriced for almost no benefit. I'm expecting refunds on it, and for it's credit price to be drastically reduced. As for the other things, echo what everyone else has said. Don't like any of it. The celerity change for combat running might have a use, but it should only be in effect if you have an aggro aura and are involved in pvp if at all. And depends heavily on how you get it, since it prevents you from leaving the room and you can't cure it. Which for some classes would make it incredibly easy to just kill you. Absolutely should have gone on a test server first, these are large changes you can't predict how it's all gonna work.

Ardent · July 2020

I'll trade my Celerity for lv2 Artibow now, thanks. And you can just go ahead and slap my custom design on it for my longbow. Sounds like a fair trade for getting shafted this hard.

Nisavi · July 2020

I'mma kind of refute something that people have said on these changes for "escaping combat". These changes haven't really done anything to impact that. The existence of artifacts and abilities like Wings/Amulet, Pathfinder, Translocator, Track, Traverse, etc. basically means that escaping from solo combat is often a trivial affair. People are also neglecting that while the opponent has trouble fleeing, the chaser will be often going just as slow. I'm not opposed to the idea or concept of slowing people down when in combat, but I'm not sure what this solution does to alleviate it and believe me, I have spent time sitting here to go over it. Sure, the Shock affliction exists, but what if I hit my opponent with it too? It's currently healed only by time, so if I hit my opponent with it and run away, then congratulations! They can't chase me any longer. It's not impossible to jump people. I've done it quite a few times. If you're dealing with a known runner though, you have to take precautions for the fact that they can escape and run away.

What this has done is make escaping from large blobs even more difficult than it already is, and has given people with wings/translocator/amulet a disproportionate advantage in being able to dip out whereas everyone else is subject to moving at the speed of paint drying.

Even after sleeping on this and trying to understand the mindset for each of these changes, they're just not solving anything -- and in fact create a bunch of larger issues that, if the already existing bugs and oversights are any indication, were not taken into account before implementation. I'm also going to say @Tiur, that this is a pretty low blow so shortly after a relic/artifact sale. Coldblooded is effectively useless for the most part, for example, as is the Heatsight power on my goggles and the Level 9 power on my goggles.

Alix · July 2020

I already miss being able to go 4 rooms at a time while path finding. I understand those changes might be useful in PvP situations, but surely it can be changed to only affect those in recent combat.

Ayastia · July 2020

Alix said:

I already miss being able to go 4 rooms at a time while path finding. I understand those changes might be useful in PvP situations, but surely it can be changed to only affect those in recent combat.

How is it useful in combat? Person runs slower, but the attacker is just as slow. I said it before I'll say it again. You cannot convince me the celerity changes were done for anything other than to get people to buy wings/amulet.

Stine · July 2020

Stine said:
Having no access or very little access to the new 'recovery' stat makes all manner of celerity worth way less than it was previously. If I have 5 celerity and 3 recovery, I may as well have 3 celerity.

With a mount and the celerity artifact (600 cr btw) I am at 4 celerity and 3 recovery. Without the celerity artifact, I am at 3 celerity and 3 recovery.

Please explain why this artifact is not useless save for 1 additional room on my very first movement.

Blessing - provides 1 celerity but 0 recovery - useless
Grace - provides 1 celerity but 0 recovery - useless

And for those of you who remember this one off promotion that I was assured would make a comeback and not make promo items I have(a desert terrarium toolkit) worthless:

a ravine terrarium - provides 1 celerity but 0 recovery - useless ON TOP OF it doesn't stack with some celerity bonuses that was never included in the announce post or helpfile about terrariums.

These changes have destroyed all movement speed sources. Even ones paid for via credits or promotions with real dollary-doos.

Nisavi · July 2020

Stine said:

Stine said:
Having no access or very little access to the new 'recovery' stat makes all manner of celerity worth way less than it was previously. If I have 5 celerity and 3 recovery, I may as well have 3 celerity.

With a mount and the celerity artifact (600 cr btw) I am at 4 celerity and 3 recovery. Without the celerity artifact, I am at 3 celerity and 3 recovery.

Please explain why this artifact is not useless save for 1 additional room on my very first movement.
Blessing - provides 1 celerity but 0 recovery - useless
Grace - provides 1 celerity but 0 recovery - useless

And for those of you who remember this one off promotion that I was assured would make a comeback and not make items promo items I have(a desert terrarium toolkit) worthless:

a ravine terrarium - provides 1 celerity but 0 recovery - useless ON TOP OF it doesn't stack with some celerity bonuses that was never included in the announce post or helpfile about terrariums.

These changes have destroyed all movement speed sources. Even ones paid for via credits or promotions with real dollary-doos.

And for context if Tiur and Keroc happen to be reading: The solution is not adding recovery to these. The solution is reverting the changes. Though, if I could get context on what kind of problem that Recovery was attempting to solve in the first place, I might be able to think of another solution that isn't as negative and drastic as this one. As it stands, I have zero idea as to what this was trying to solve. The only logic I can think of that brought this one was lore reasons and that admins didn't like how people were presently blazing across the continent. If my assumption is correct, then my response is: Mechanics trump roleplay, and some suspension of disbelief has to go into play in order for a better playing experience at large. No one wants to spend a ton of time trekking across the continent to get from Point A to B.

Isia · July 2020

via GIPHY

Isia · July 2020

^^^^^^

Tetchta · July 2020

Keroc be like

Nisavi · July 2020

Tetchta said:
Keroc be like

More like:

Saidenn · July 2020

Leyline hunting already took a good chunk of time given having to go area to area. Now it is going to be downright painful.

Tetchta · July 2020

Just to echo what a lot of people are saying, I'm utterly baffled by these changes. Even if there's a reason behind them that's sound, dropping such fundamental changes to the game all at once seems totally misguided. Gosh, and the changes to the celerity SKILL? I...man that was one of the coolest skills vamps had, and now it just feels like trash. And, personally, after spending 50+ hours bashing in order to get to level 140 so I can finally have a base celerity of 4, only to to have it rendered essentially meaningless by this change makes me feel, well. Like this:

Rihrin said:
I don't even want to bother logging in right now because I know I'm going to get frustrated, so I probably won't. I'll go find something else to play (if I even have time TO play anything else) and see if any of these get reverted back to something sensible.

And this doesn't even begin to touch on the changes that aren't Celerity. I feel like this is going to make AB testing an absolute nightmare. A good chunk of these changes just seem like they've removed huge quality of life features that made the game great, for practically no real reason.

Church · July 2020

Haven't seen this community so united in a long time, perfect execution.

Validan · July 2020

Here I thought classleads would be the real threat to my favorite class, but instead it was neutered by changes that effect not only several SKILLS but supporting ARTIFACTS and RELICS to it. So I'll just ask the blunt question - at what point do refunds for the class, artifacts, and relics begin?

If nothing else, the agreement across the board with the slew of changes proving to not only be discouraging but a negative effect on the playerbase. To mirror the others, I've logged in a couple times since and I end up logging right off shortly after because its just frustrating when your outlet becomes your headache.

Tetchta · July 2020

Validan said:
If nothing else, the agreement across the board with the slew of changes proving to not only be discouraging but a negative effect on the playerbase. To mirror the others, I've logged in a couple times since and I end up logging right off shortly after because its just frustrating when your outlet becomes your headache.

Yeah, I've logged in a couple times, hit AUDIT, gotten frustrated, and just qq'd right away.

Stine · July 2020

Church said:
Haven't seen this community so united in a long time, perfect execution.

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Announce post #3123: Experimental Changes

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