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But referencing being a customer in terms of how you expect to be treated by customer service is like one of the standard incoming-call-center drinking game lines.
So here it goes..
@Vyxsis and I have usually always gotten along IC, and I was not present for this event. I only know what I have read and been told by others.
@Vyxsis you are upset over the outcome of the Indorani, as a former Guild Leader I understand and would be as well if this were the Carnifex, BUT you were told not to do something and did it anyway. I mean what did you expect? A slap on the wrist? We all know that @Vyxsis likes to start conflict, and that is a good thing that I think Aetolia needs more of, but there is a right time and a right place to start conflict. Not during an event that is trying to bring all sides of the game together to fight a bigger evil. After reading everything I have read it seems you keep wanting to play the victim card and that is not fair. You as the -leader- of the Indorani had a choice to listen to the Divine or ignore them and do what you did. Sometimes as a -leader- you have to make tough choices and ignore the majority to do what is right and needed of you at the time. Then explain to the others why you needed to stop. That is what should have been done. As for wanting to know what you did wrong.. that is plain and simple if you ask me. The Divine said no and you said yes.
@Leana, @Tiur has mentioned this in the past that when events happen there are many different routes they write for them because he likes to let the players of the games have more control over events. This is something that I really like about how @Tiur handles events in the game. If the Indorani were supposed to be involved in this event more than just banning with Bloodloch to fight the greater evil it would have been told to @Vyxsis. As a former leader of not only the Carnifex, but also D'baen and Bloodloch I have been approached by admin about the events and the general aspects of the event.
If you ask me, it seems more like the Indorani wanted to make the event more about themselves than making this a world-wide event for everyone to enjoy.
This is just my point of view, take it or leave it.
The volunteers and administration on an OOC and IC level have been very clear in my interactions throughout this event of the threat and so far as came down to speak to mortals and have us put our trust in what ICly qualifies as the Elder Gods of our pantheon. As someone who has spent most my tenure in aetolia studying the Gods and trying to understand lore from multiple perspectives. When the God of Truth and the God of Artifice are holding hands as elders of the pantheon and saying Mortals we are the word of the Gods and desire that differences be put aside for the state of our world.
You do what we have demonstrated amongst the cities.
I... having been in past incarnations one who loved the creation of conflict took many years and only until recently to accept consequences for my actions. If I had a sovereign for every time I coup’d something or got kicked out of a City I’d likely be more wealthy than the sentinel coffers... at least last I checked they were well off... lol
I appreciate what you and the Indorani did, create a clan... create a cult... continue the legacy there is Nothing saying you can’t. I want you to take your energy and use it instead of let yourself try and make answers where they aren’t being given. I know there’s bad feels but it’s entirely in the hands of a player what they do with this situation. It took me a long time to be comfortable with that part of things. This is just the end of a book in a volume of RP documentation and potentials. We as a community have to not always come to our volunteers and administration for explanations of rather clear directive instead we can continue our own directive and convince them to onboard with us than bring it OOC.
I'm sorry your guild got deleted, that's got to feel like a massive let down. I know I would be bummed out, even if I was super pleased by the story that went along with it!
If you're still in the mood to play the game, keep it coming! But, if you're really upset about it (which is totally fair, because feeling like your effort has been wiped out is going to make most people upset) I'd suggest taking a step away from the game for a little bit (even if it's just a couple days - but a week often works better to reset the brain) and then come back and see if you're still as upset. Hopefully you won't be and you will be in a better headspace to appreciate the awesome blaze of glory you helped a guild go down in!
I'm sure you're hurting, that sucks and is reasonable, but it's also going to make you more vulnerable to being rude or mean in a way that you might regret later and that's never any fun after the fact.
I hope you newly guildless feel better soon!
really, though, i think the armchair psychologizing needs to stop. i'm gonna say this once and for all: we didn't want the event to be about us; we just wanted to RP in the way that seemed to fit our characters and their commitments, and the vast bulk of those commitments, including the ones relevant to this event, are ones we were given in the form of org and god lore - not just one idiosyncratic player.
When the Carnifex had to change direction I was approach before hand and told what was needed to know and an outline of what will happen. If this was a situation that was going to push the Indorani in a different direction you would have been approached. If this was a situation that the admin wanted the Indorani specifically involved with you would have been approached. The fact you were not approached and blindly went into this with your actions means the Indorani were -not- supposed to be in the spot light. I have been approached by admin and Divine both about the Carnifex and change or directions they wanted me to take them.
"With great power comes great responsibilities."
idk how long i can stay away because i'm neurotic as hell, but yeah - for now, goodnight all
@Vyxsis I have no hate towards you but I really think jester guild is up your alley
somebody back me up here - i'm not nuts, right? IC God speech =/= admin?? right???? bueller???????
okthxbai
I just loooooove the fact that the Gods are showing a bit of power and putting some fear into the players. For far too long, the Gods have been slightly more powerful buddies of the characters. I've never liked that. The Gods are Powerful and should be Feared and Respected. The Gods should put Their feet down when a character is disobeying. Doesn't have to be a zapping to kill or destroying half a city and a guild. It all has to be proportional. What happened here is that the entire world was threatened and destroying half a city and a guild is quite logical in that sense. If someone calls a God a booboo head, put them in a prison somewhere with a puzzle to solve to get out. (Actually happened to me once, a char ended up in a hidden prison on Polyargos and had to find a way to get out in order to take the ferry back to mainland).
I hope the Gods keep this up and toughen up a bit in every day life too. Characters shouldn't be able to have a shouting match with a Divine without proper reactions.
I had assumed that the deletion of the Indorani guild was something that had probably been planned/slated to happen for a while now, and that this event and the actions of the players presented a golden opportunity to make it happen.
It never occurred to me that it could have been done to 'punish' anyone until I read this thread. I figured that the Indorani leadership were in on it and played things through to help make it happen, just as part of the natural development of the game setting. I'm new to Aetolia in the larger scheme of things, but my understanding is that this is how game updates happen. A fun, interactive event, and incorporating the mechanical change into the history and lore of the game world.
Is that not the case?
P.S. Badass event is badass. Regardless of anything else, I personally feel that the storyline and execution are being handled beautifully. I'm in a wonky timezone too, so I miss out on a lot. I really appreciate that there are things like the blood buckets for we off-peakers to participate in. Kudos, godmins.
afaik, deleting a whole guild because they made one "wrong" choice in an event is pretty much unprecedented. i could be wrong, but that's the way i've heard it. usually, you'd have some OOC warning and/or OOC guidance about what they want from you that you're not doing - or, if it's planned because they want to introduce something else, they'll tell you and lay out how it's gonna happen/what to expect. completely deleting a guild without some form of opportunity to correct for, at worst, misreading a situation and following their org RP isn't something i've heard about. not the daru, not the cabal, not the . even those two examples were folded in or allowed to reinvent themselves. granted, none of the examples i know about took place under Tiur, but i assumed i could expect equal or higher standards from him rather than lower.
tbh, up until today? i assumed we hadn't heard anything from admin because they didn't want to spoil the surprise of how the story would turn out. i figured we were in trouble, sure, but not like... actually gone trouble. i was actually pretty optimistic. tried telling people not to worry, don't freak out, things aren't over, we don't know what'll happen, this could be yet another "lol artifice" moment, etc. i pointed out the various things that normally seem to happen upon org deletion (top of the list: communication) hadn't occurred. i personally felt pretty positive. however, since nobody contacted me beforehand about an upcoming deletion or contacted me after to tell me what was up, i reached out on my own out of concern for the players in the guild - my attempts to reassure and calm them were getting a bit threadbare. and, well, here we are.
tl;dr if it was planned, we didn't know about it. technically, it's an IC punishment, but considering how unprecedented it is and there was no "hey, we think we might actually do things like this now", people are upset.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Raz isn't the one that hijacked a storyline. That was you.
Also: Gods = admin. Volunteer or paid. Some of the biggest gods are played by paid staff. Not their fault you didn't realize this. Sev is so important to the lore that only a paid admin can play him. One of the core trio of paid admin told you not to do something. Not their fault you didn't know this fact about the godshells.
I'm with Tybereus on this. Your giggling with Ishmar made it really clear that you were going to involve Golgatha. If I can discern that, Severn could too. IDK why you'd tell us you were asking about potential rogues either when you told your guild that you'd said Golgatha's followers were behind the seal. Golgatha wouldn't get murderously enraged over being asked about rogues lol.
This isn't a customer service issue. And, honestly, only bad customers yell about how they're a customer and should be treated a certain way. I've been in food service and retail long enough to know that. If you're a customer worth keeping, there aren't tantrums flung, and the business employees tend to be a lot nicer.
I recommend introspection. Raz isn't the one at fault, and neither is Severn.
If a Shadow seal had appeared, you bet your unicorn that Teani (or probably any Sciomancer present for that) would have asked questions and made suggestions, wondering if they could do something to help. Even if Sciomancers have a strong connection to the Shadow Plane, and there are plenty of threats involved in that Plane as well as that of Chaos, I doubt Teani would have gone poking around after being put in a chokehold by Severn and told "No you don't".
This whole thing has had a global event feel to it from the beginning, what with both sides of the Pantheon being involved, so if they wanted to switch focus to something specific, I think they would nudge those people specifically (as has been mentioned perviously in this thread.
(As a side note: this might be what made the Master Crystal event so confusing for some, as Sciomancers and Ascendril got the nudge by way of interaction within their guildhalls, and then they were sort of dropped by the side and left on their own while the rest of the world enjoyed the global event.)
Honestly, I'm pretty impressed to learn that it may have all been completely improvised. Learning that our character's decisions can effect such a significant change on the setting? That's legitimately dope.
But then, none of this directly impacts me or my gameplay, so my opinion is really neither here nor there. I feel for any Indos who have been put out by all of this. My advice aligns with that stated by others on the first page: try to own it, have fun with it, make it part of your story. It's a really unique character development opportunity and I'm interested to see how it all evolves.
Vyxsis is 100% correct in believing that God decision != Admin decision. Gods != Admin.
Severn is an IC entity and it does not matter if Joe Celani or Razmael or Tiur is behind the wheel, anything said or done is considered IC and not an admin decision. If an administrative decision needed to be made they would do it as their administrator shell (being Tiur, Razmael, Keroc, etc)
There was even a post about this shit guys, come on. And during the war I know everyone talked about events and our meeting after it started that reinforced the God != Admin that it should be well known just due to word of mouth and how gossipy Aetolia is.