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Re: Post Your Pictures!
Went hiking for a week for our ten year anniversary.
An amazingly reflective lake.
The lake and hotel we stayed at; view is from hiking up a nearby mountain. The lake really is that weird turquoise colour - it almost looks fake! It's the result of rock flour runoff from being glacier-fed, apparently. The tiny little dots on the lake are canoes.
View from atop a different mountain. We were in the middle of a passing cloud so wisps of it are still visible.
Walking through the aforementioned cloud - very wet and could barely see anything.
Hiking up/through a bunch of glaciers.
After a triumphant (and very tiring) climb!
We weren't actually expecting to go hiking; we found a random trail on the first day and got hooked on the spectacular views. Ended up hiking about 20 km each day, much of it uphill. All in all, this experience convinced me that I really need to work off all the weight I gained being inactive and boredom eating during COVID-19!
An amazingly reflective lake.
The lake and hotel we stayed at; view is from hiking up a nearby mountain. The lake really is that weird turquoise colour - it almost looks fake! It's the result of rock flour runoff from being glacier-fed, apparently. The tiny little dots on the lake are canoes.
View from atop a different mountain. We were in the middle of a passing cloud so wisps of it are still visible.
Walking through the aforementioned cloud - very wet and could barely see anything.
Hiking up/through a bunch of glaciers.
After a triumphant (and very tiring) climb!
We weren't actually expecting to go hiking; we found a random trail on the first day and got hooked on the spectacular views. Ended up hiking about 20 km each day, much of it uphill. All in all, this experience convinced me that I really need to work off all the weight I gained being inactive and boredom eating during COVID-19!
Tedrunai
36
Re: Quotes & Misquotes: Falling Off of Bridges
16:30:36 (Web): Savas says, "A zombie cleric slaps Ephi hard on her cheek."
16:30:39 (Web): Savas says, "I laugh every time."
16:30:43 (Web): Ephi says, "Shut up."
16:30:49 (Web): You say, "Lmao."
16:31:01 (Web): Ephi says, "Im carrying u since ur lil bone dagger tickles."
Savas comes in with a kick. Ephi returns fire with a left hook.. OUT OF NOWHERE!!
16:30:39 (Web): Savas says, "I laugh every time."
16:30:43 (Web): Ephi says, "Shut up."
16:30:49 (Web): You say, "Lmao."
16:31:01 (Web): Ephi says, "Im carrying u since ur lil bone dagger tickles."
Savas comes in with a kick. Ephi returns fire with a left hook.. OUT OF NOWHERE!!
Rhyot
13
Re: Bashing Damage Numbers!
I think it's important to state how awesome multihit/faster attacks are. The more you attack, the more you crit.
I'm not really going to math it out but I know that personally I'd prefer a less damaging attack that was faster or multihit over a slower attack that hit like a truck, any day.
I'm not really going to math it out but I know that personally I'd prefer a less damaging attack that was faster or multihit over a slower attack that hit like a truck, any day.
Savas
5
Re: Bashing Damage Numbers!
Since I started this thread I suppose I should come back and update with some of my own numbers and maybe summarize some of the points that have been made throughout the thread. Hopefully this will help point out why getting a snapshot of your DPS using a single attack/combo and dividing it by it's speed will only give you a base line and not the whole story.
New numbers and Xaanhal testing:
Teradrim - 19 STR - Club: Damage: 157 (+18) Penetration: 91 (+18) Speed: 157 (+18) - Red orb/Red amulet - +bal enhancement - stonefury imbue/blue runemark bashing defences
No hunting token or blunt damage rune (..yet)
Batter: 1481 damage, 2.52s balance, 587.7 DPS
Skullbash: 2095 damage, 3.54s balance, 591.8 DPS
Barrage: 498x3 damage (1494), 3.61s balance, 413.8 DPS
According to announce #2836, Teradrim bashing attacks are batter and skullbash. I included barrage to make a point, though.
My batter and skullbash are not optimized for DPS (arguably). I could be doing something like 30 DPS more if I was using a max damage club, something in the 180+ range. However I would also be around .5 seconds slower.
Recently I ran through the Xaanhal instance three times, using each attack exclusively for each run. I discovered that it takes me about 14 minutes to clear with batter, while both skullbash and barrage took me about 17 minutes.
This shows a couple of things:
The balance time on barrage and skullbash are nearly the same, yet barrage has significantly less DPS. However, it takes about the same amount of time to clear out an area because of the benefits that multihit gives you (or arguably the shortcomings of high damage, slow single hit attacks).
The DPS on batter and skullbash are similar, yet batter clears out the same area quite a bit faster. The only difference here being that batter takes 1 second less balance.
Multihit vs single hit and "wasted" damage, faster vs slower attacks:
It's been reiterated throughout the thread quite a few times that multihit is better, mostly for the crits. However the 'you get more crits' premise isn't really the reason. It's more that your damage gets spread out more evenly and not "wasted" as often.
When I get an annihilating crit with skullbash, I'm doing 2095 x 2 x 2 x 2 x 2 x 2 = 67040 damage. Those mobs in Xaanhal I'm hitting have something like 13000 health. I will instantly kill the first mob, dealing 13000 damage, and the overkill will instantly kill a second one, doing another 13000 damage. What this really means is my anni crit is not doing 67040 damage but 26000. And since my skullbash takes 3.54s to recover, I'm doing 26000 damage / 3.54s for 7344 DPS.
Getting an anni on my batter will do 1481 x 2 x 2 x 2 x 2 x 2 = 47392 damage. But the same rules apply, that damage is really limited to 26000, since that is how overkill works. However, batter is faster. 26000 damage / 2.52s = 10317 DPS. In other words, if I'm going to be getting anni (and even muti) crits, I'm much better off getting them using batter than skullbash.
The same thing pops up on the opposite side of the spectrum. If you've ever watched your basher bash, you'll notice that on occasion your attack will only do 100 damage. That's because the mob you hit only had 100 hp left, after the last time you hit it. I would much rather be doing that final 100 damage with a 2.52s balance attack than a 3.54s one.
The final thing to mention is when you get no crits at all. At 13000 hp, it would take me 7 skullbashes to kill a mob. At 3.54 seconds per skullbash, that's 24.78 seconds. Batter would take me 9 hits. At 2.52 seconds a hit, that's a total of 22.68 seconds.
You could probably nitpick at some of the points I made above but there's a reason why the general consensus is "multihit is better, faster attacks are better".
Damage modifiers:
The final thing worth going over is something that Stine has mentioned a couple times, which has to do with how damage is modified. Classes that wield weapons seem to have higher damage potential, with Templar topping the charts. This is likely because Templar can double up on +3 stat runes, cutting damage runes, and augments, and bash as dual wielders. They're also multhit, and somewhere between fast and average speed.
These damage mods are amplified because of how things like red orb/amulet and hunting tokens increase damage, too. As an example, when I'm not using red orb/amulet, my damage is only 1343. When I wear my red amulet, this goes up to 1410. When I activate red orb, the damage goes up to 1481 (the number I have above). 1343 x 1.05 = 1410. 1410 x 1.05 = 1481 (technically 1480.65, yay rounding). Damage modifiers are multiplied on top of each other, instead of taking some "base" damage value and adding that in.
In other words, if I was doing 1000 damage, and I bought a level 3 hunting token, my damage would go up to 1000 x 1.05 x 1.05 x 1.05, which is 1157.62. As opposed to what can be more common in games which is adding to that base number. 1000 + 3(1000 x 0.05) = 1150. Not a major difference, but it means that every way you can modify your damage will amplify all the other ways you can modify your damage. It seems that things like magic potence or knuckles don't keep up with the different way weapon attacks can be modified.
There's also some argument that this way of modifying damage can help boost high damage attacks like skullbash, but in my opinion the wasted damage and general slowness of these attacks (mentioned above) will make all this extra damage you get a lot less exciting.
Tiur mentioned in his post that they can see every bashing attack, and that the damage is more or less where they want it. I personally agree, which is rare for me to do when it comes to balancing in Aetolia. At most, there's argument for improving things like knuckles/potence/artifacts to help non-weapon classes keep up with weapon classes, and maybe some of the slower, weaker, single hit classes (holy shit bonedagger is garbage) could be caught up a bit.
New numbers and Xaanhal testing:
Teradrim - 19 STR - Club: Damage: 157 (+18) Penetration: 91 (+18) Speed: 157 (+18) - Red orb/Red amulet - +bal enhancement - stonefury imbue/blue runemark bashing defences
No hunting token or blunt damage rune (..yet)
Batter: 1481 damage, 2.52s balance, 587.7 DPS
Skullbash: 2095 damage, 3.54s balance, 591.8 DPS
Barrage: 498x3 damage (1494), 3.61s balance, 413.8 DPS
According to announce #2836, Teradrim bashing attacks are batter and skullbash. I included barrage to make a point, though.
My batter and skullbash are not optimized for DPS (arguably). I could be doing something like 30 DPS more if I was using a max damage club, something in the 180+ range. However I would also be around .5 seconds slower.
Recently I ran through the Xaanhal instance three times, using each attack exclusively for each run. I discovered that it takes me about 14 minutes to clear with batter, while both skullbash and barrage took me about 17 minutes.
This shows a couple of things:
The balance time on barrage and skullbash are nearly the same, yet barrage has significantly less DPS. However, it takes about the same amount of time to clear out an area because of the benefits that multihit gives you (or arguably the shortcomings of high damage, slow single hit attacks).
The DPS on batter and skullbash are similar, yet batter clears out the same area quite a bit faster. The only difference here being that batter takes 1 second less balance.
Multihit vs single hit and "wasted" damage, faster vs slower attacks:
It's been reiterated throughout the thread quite a few times that multihit is better, mostly for the crits. However the 'you get more crits' premise isn't really the reason. It's more that your damage gets spread out more evenly and not "wasted" as often.
When I get an annihilating crit with skullbash, I'm doing 2095 x 2 x 2 x 2 x 2 x 2 = 67040 damage. Those mobs in Xaanhal I'm hitting have something like 13000 health. I will instantly kill the first mob, dealing 13000 damage, and the overkill will instantly kill a second one, doing another 13000 damage. What this really means is my anni crit is not doing 67040 damage but 26000. And since my skullbash takes 3.54s to recover, I'm doing 26000 damage / 3.54s for 7344 DPS.
Getting an anni on my batter will do 1481 x 2 x 2 x 2 x 2 x 2 = 47392 damage. But the same rules apply, that damage is really limited to 26000, since that is how overkill works. However, batter is faster. 26000 damage / 2.52s = 10317 DPS. In other words, if I'm going to be getting anni (and even muti) crits, I'm much better off getting them using batter than skullbash.
The same thing pops up on the opposite side of the spectrum. If you've ever watched your basher bash, you'll notice that on occasion your attack will only do 100 damage. That's because the mob you hit only had 100 hp left, after the last time you hit it. I would much rather be doing that final 100 damage with a 2.52s balance attack than a 3.54s one.
The final thing to mention is when you get no crits at all. At 13000 hp, it would take me 7 skullbashes to kill a mob. At 3.54 seconds per skullbash, that's 24.78 seconds. Batter would take me 9 hits. At 2.52 seconds a hit, that's a total of 22.68 seconds.
You could probably nitpick at some of the points I made above but there's a reason why the general consensus is "multihit is better, faster attacks are better".
Damage modifiers:
The final thing worth going over is something that Stine has mentioned a couple times, which has to do with how damage is modified. Classes that wield weapons seem to have higher damage potential, with Templar topping the charts. This is likely because Templar can double up on +3 stat runes, cutting damage runes, and augments, and bash as dual wielders. They're also multhit, and somewhere between fast and average speed.
These damage mods are amplified because of how things like red orb/amulet and hunting tokens increase damage, too. As an example, when I'm not using red orb/amulet, my damage is only 1343. When I wear my red amulet, this goes up to 1410. When I activate red orb, the damage goes up to 1481 (the number I have above). 1343 x 1.05 = 1410. 1410 x 1.05 = 1481 (technically 1480.65, yay rounding). Damage modifiers are multiplied on top of each other, instead of taking some "base" damage value and adding that in.
In other words, if I was doing 1000 damage, and I bought a level 3 hunting token, my damage would go up to 1000 x 1.05 x 1.05 x 1.05, which is 1157.62. As opposed to what can be more common in games which is adding to that base number. 1000 + 3(1000 x 0.05) = 1150. Not a major difference, but it means that every way you can modify your damage will amplify all the other ways you can modify your damage. It seems that things like magic potence or knuckles don't keep up with the different way weapon attacks can be modified.
There's also some argument that this way of modifying damage can help boost high damage attacks like skullbash, but in my opinion the wasted damage and general slowness of these attacks (mentioned above) will make all this extra damage you get a lot less exciting.
Tiur mentioned in his post that they can see every bashing attack, and that the damage is more or less where they want it. I personally agree, which is rare for me to do when it comes to balancing in Aetolia. At most, there's argument for improving things like knuckles/potence/artifacts to help non-weapon classes keep up with weapon classes, and maybe some of the slower, weaker, single hit classes (holy shit bonedagger is garbage) could be caught up a bit.
Re: Mirror classes
@Oonagh do vamp now!SHADOW SPIRIT
Vampire - Lightbound
Corpus - Eminence
Mentis - Oration
Sanguis - Infusion
The lightbound have created themselves through the closely guarded secrets of the Akkari. Through their bond with the Duamvi, these beings have ascended their form with the glorious presence of Spirit within their bodies. Having embraced wholly the symbiosis, their form has undergone a grander fusion than originally anticipated, granting a hospitable home for the beings of Rewh'va and gaining unfathomable strength in Eminence, presence of body and ascendance. Oration, in utilising the words of the Light's gift to confound and perplex the non-believers, and Infusion, utilising the spirit within to bleed out the heretics.
The following abilities can be found in Infusion:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Infuse The latent power of the Light.
Seek Search out the heretics.
Lightbrand Brand a defeated undead foe to fight in the Light's name.
Lightspawn Bring a lightspawn into existence.
Track Track those lashed by the Light's power around you.
Command The Lightbranded follow your command.
Consume Coat your weapon in Light to make foes bleed for their sins.
Bestow Share latent Light unto an ally.
Darken Let your light be the only beacon.
Level Determine the blood reserves of the heretics.
Drain Drain the impure blood of the heretic.
Gift Gift your lightspawn with a second chance at redemption.
Lightforming Remove a lightspawn from the corporeal.
Improve Improve the potential of your lightspawn.
Pulse A rush of pulsating spirit within.
Blur The illumination of your form is difficult to discern.
Disquiet Induce anxiety in your enemies.
Concentration Focus and refine your Light's gift.
Bind Binding threads of Light will hold you.
You possess these abilities for furthering the Lightbound line:
Same vein of siring...so on and so forth, but by bestowing the gift of a bolstered Duamvi.
An addition to the existing ritual that bolsters you with greater Spirit/Light at Dawn involving another bestowing the knowledge of the Lightbound and giving you a taste of the gift, allowing you to accept and culture your own experience as the progenitor to your ascendance.
Your path specialization grants the following:
Different paths...depending on the type in the same vein as the Vampire paths...
I dont know, this one seems to have potential, and would expand upon the already present
Duamvi/Undead presence, being a simile of sorts, present off the vampire model, as an improved, not just symbiote relationship, but outside the standard realm having embraced Spirit in a greater capacity to achieve greater mortal form. Can also play on the arrogance of a person who is Lightbound, finding themselves the superior representative to the Light.
Anyways, you asked for it, so I kinda gave it a shot.
Oonagh
5
