Best Of

Don't carni have hammer throw to do what you just described?

And indorani having bonedagger or decay (if I'm remembering right) at least area wide, and broader access to archery via syssin, and access to firelash just like spirit, and access to teradrim adjacent abilities....

c'mon, don't try and call out an item being used by one side of the game occasionally as something only that side has when there is 0 reason that the other side of the game couldn't be using it.

Teradrim ranged/adjacent abilities are nullified by a Shaman existing. Indo doppie's effectiveness is also generally cancelled out by abilities like Lummie's Banishment or Shaman Exorcise (wow 2 for 2).

Sentinel's also have broader access to archery and are tether specific, while Syssin are not. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if Powershot is basically the same as Hammer Throw. A better comparison for Syssin is Syssin vs Monk, since the classes are neutral but the guilds are tether based. And I think most people appreciate Telepathy over Syssin bows.


I won't list out responses like Rhyot but will make a more general consideration. I assume the report being referenced in the beginning of the thread is report 2778, where the decision mentions "filling up their pitifully small skillsets" when referring to the Templar class. It's not too hard to do 'ab battlefury', 'ab bladefire', and 'ab righteousness' and see the the total number of abilities are pretty low. 30 abilities seems pretty normal, although some skillsets get into the 40s. Battlefury at 29 isn't doing too bad, but add in Bladefire at 26 and Righteousness at 24 and you have three skillsets with a low number of abilities.

Now, whether you think Templar are OP or UP, I would bet K would say they are somewhere around relatively balanced. With that being said, adding in new abilities will automatically make the class better (assuming they aren't just flavor skills). Even small things like adding a new 10% resist will still 'make the class better'.

This means that tossing a bunch of new abilities at the class will likely end up tipping it into OP territory, even if it is considered slightly underpowered currently. And considering the decisions of reports like 2934 and 2840, it might be hard to get anything group fight oriented put in, like the twisting and malice suggestions.


My suggestion would be to do things like reducing the value of ability x and adding some of that value into new ability z. Or simply spreading out some of the value of a singular good ability by splitting it up into two new abilities.

One example might be doing something like not allowing emanate to be used if you have the pestilence aura up, essentially requiring you to decide between eating auras for specific affs or having constant passive affs running. You gain value with emanate but lose the value of pestilence.

I would also probably refrain from creating big totally new mechanics like the unit stuff in the beginning, keeping new abilities/mechanics as basic as possible since you're probably unlikely to get massive changes/new stuff worked on any time soon.


As a side note, it took real life years to get breeding to actually allow Carni to access all the traits/abilities the hounds have somewhat easily, and that was after the class had gone through a couple fairly large revamps (once being hilariously underpowered and the other hilariously overpowered). Major changes were requested but in the end there were a few basic tweaks made to some skills/the breeding mechanic as a whole, and it also came with a pretty big nerf/redesign of what hounds can do (wHich i GuESS maDe tHE ClASs NOt bE aN aFF claSS AnymOre).

In other words.. idk good luck. Templar seem to have some decent things they can do, so I would bet there would need to be some give and take when it comes to making new abilities vs just tossing new stuff into the class.