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Re: Mildly Irritating: Aetolia's Pet Peeves
Maybe they do want your company, @Sibatti, but they're too nervous about approaching you or some other reason.
I know because sometimes I feel like that, as in I don't want to seem like a bother to the people I approach or come across as too clingy so I try to curb it. Other times, it's because I am thinking about the angle with which I should use to approach the person and I can't decide so I stay away. (I'm really not disinterested, I swear. I just wanna stay true to my character.)
I know because sometimes I feel like that, as in I don't want to seem like a bother to the people I approach or come across as too clingy so I try to curb it. Other times, it's because I am thinking about the angle with which I should use to approach the person and I can't decide so I stay away. (I'm really not disinterested, I swear. I just wanna stay true to my character.)
Elene
10
Re: RP environment - outguilding
So. As someone who disdains a lot of orgs in general, but having been members of quite a few and in leadership in quite a few, and also having been rogue for a lot of my playing career, there are aspects of the initial post that I agree with, but a vast majority I don't.
So. First thing I'm going to refute is that the general tone of the post makes it seem like when it comes to guilds, guild RP, and the possibility of being outguilded. I think you forget that although guilds are a large part of the game, they're Entirely opt-in. Every org in the game has laws that are publicly visible. When you join a guild, or even afterwards, reading these laws are often a requirement. Why? So you know exactly what you're getting into and what the guild RP entails. In joining the org, you're agreeing to subscribe to the RP, though some guilds are far more strict about how much homogeny they have in terms of the kinds of personalities there are, but that's an entirely different story. Anyway. Guild RP and expectations are usually VERY clear, and if you don't like it/don't agree with it/don't want to play ball with it even a little, that's probably more a problem with you than the org itself because everything is right there in writing in front of you.
Decide to go against em anyway while you're still a member of the guild? Well. Hate to say it, but they kind of have perfectly good reason to outguild you. Why? Well, like I said, everything is spelled out in writing for you in regards to expectations, and you willingly go against it anyway. Outguilding is a bit extreme for a single offense, and most people in leadership will give you a chance. Repeated rule-breaking, though, you can't claim ignorance, and you can't blame the org for 'ruining everything you've established' - you kinda did that yourself.
To use kind of use a more relevant example: you're a member of a Spirit org that bans worship of Bamathis, but heck, you wanna worship Bamathis, laws be damned! ...and then someone finds out, you get caught, and you get upset when the org punishes you for breaking the law?
Don't like the policies or RP of the org you're with? Buck up and find one that actually DOES gel with you and suits your RP style and needs. Seriously. A big thing I've noticed with some players is that they get super complacent or really adamant about their character 'belonging' to a specific org, but are unwilling to change their RP to fit their environment and either just wallow in misery the whole time or just go against laws because they don't agree with it or it inconveniences them. When you become part of an org, you're making a conscious choice to meld at least a little with the role they've defined.
If you really want to be able to do whatever you want and interact with whoever you want without much consequence, well, there's always the option of going rogue. Don't want to give up your ranks, titles, reputation, or whatever? Well, that's kind of the hard choice you have to make. What's more important to you?
Outguilding should never be used because of a personal dislike of someone or because they disagree with leadership. Even with breaking laws, kicking someone out is typically a last resort rather than a first one.
As for the whole, 'orgs crushing cross-tether RP' argument... Hoo boy. Where to begin? I see cross-tether RP happening all the time. Even when I've been a member of Spirit orgs, I've never had a problem finding it, and I've never felt stifled. If you feel like RP is being denied, well. That depends on the kind of RP you're talking about, and this 'issue' only pops up in a VERY few circumstances, though there's two specific ones that I've seen it come up most often.
There's the whole divine worship thing I previously mentioned, with Bamathis being the most recent. I've lost count of how many times I've heard "Man, I wish I could follow Bamathis while being a member of Enorian".
The second instance I've seen the cross-tether RP crushing argument pop up has been in regards to cross-tether relationships. Specifically romantic ones. Most Spirit orgs have some level of fraternization law with romantic relationships being forbidden across the board. As I've mentioned previously, everything is there in writing, and yet people still do it. You want to romance or boink anyone you want and not worry about someone higher up putting their foot down and stomping on that RP? Go Shadow or go rogue. Don't act upset or surprised if you try the whole forbidden relationship thing and it's forced to end - you knew what you were getting into. If you're really hell bent on it, either side-hop or go rogue. If you're unwilling to do that, that's kind of your hangup.
Long story short: for the most part, most orgs are pretty responsible about kicking people out and having restraint in using that power (except a few notable cases where it's definitely been abused). You CHOOSE to opt-in to the org's RP and the role they've constructed for themselves when you join it. Since classes aren't so strictly tied to guilds anymore, you're really free to pick whichever org suits your play style and ideals. If you're really that set on being in a particular org, you do have to play ball with the rules they set. Yes, you're forced into a mold. To an extent. But you're making that informed choice. If the rules an org sets really bother you, then you'll have to think about what it is you really want out of the game and your play.
So. First thing I'm going to refute is that the general tone of the post makes it seem like when it comes to guilds, guild RP, and the possibility of being outguilded. I think you forget that although guilds are a large part of the game, they're Entirely opt-in. Every org in the game has laws that are publicly visible. When you join a guild, or even afterwards, reading these laws are often a requirement. Why? So you know exactly what you're getting into and what the guild RP entails. In joining the org, you're agreeing to subscribe to the RP, though some guilds are far more strict about how much homogeny they have in terms of the kinds of personalities there are, but that's an entirely different story. Anyway. Guild RP and expectations are usually VERY clear, and if you don't like it/don't agree with it/don't want to play ball with it even a little, that's probably more a problem with you than the org itself because everything is right there in writing in front of you.
Decide to go against em anyway while you're still a member of the guild? Well. Hate to say it, but they kind of have perfectly good reason to outguild you. Why? Well, like I said, everything is spelled out in writing for you in regards to expectations, and you willingly go against it anyway. Outguilding is a bit extreme for a single offense, and most people in leadership will give you a chance. Repeated rule-breaking, though, you can't claim ignorance, and you can't blame the org for 'ruining everything you've established' - you kinda did that yourself.
To use kind of use a more relevant example: you're a member of a Spirit org that bans worship of Bamathis, but heck, you wanna worship Bamathis, laws be damned! ...and then someone finds out, you get caught, and you get upset when the org punishes you for breaking the law?
Don't like the policies or RP of the org you're with? Buck up and find one that actually DOES gel with you and suits your RP style and needs. Seriously. A big thing I've noticed with some players is that they get super complacent or really adamant about their character 'belonging' to a specific org, but are unwilling to change their RP to fit their environment and either just wallow in misery the whole time or just go against laws because they don't agree with it or it inconveniences them. When you become part of an org, you're making a conscious choice to meld at least a little with the role they've defined.
If you really want to be able to do whatever you want and interact with whoever you want without much consequence, well, there's always the option of going rogue. Don't want to give up your ranks, titles, reputation, or whatever? Well, that's kind of the hard choice you have to make. What's more important to you?
Outguilding should never be used because of a personal dislike of someone or because they disagree with leadership. Even with breaking laws, kicking someone out is typically a last resort rather than a first one.
As for the whole, 'orgs crushing cross-tether RP' argument... Hoo boy. Where to begin? I see cross-tether RP happening all the time. Even when I've been a member of Spirit orgs, I've never had a problem finding it, and I've never felt stifled. If you feel like RP is being denied, well. That depends on the kind of RP you're talking about, and this 'issue' only pops up in a VERY few circumstances, though there's two specific ones that I've seen it come up most often.
There's the whole divine worship thing I previously mentioned, with Bamathis being the most recent. I've lost count of how many times I've heard "Man, I wish I could follow Bamathis while being a member of Enorian".
The second instance I've seen the cross-tether RP crushing argument pop up has been in regards to cross-tether relationships. Specifically romantic ones. Most Spirit orgs have some level of fraternization law with romantic relationships being forbidden across the board. As I've mentioned previously, everything is there in writing, and yet people still do it. You want to romance or boink anyone you want and not worry about someone higher up putting their foot down and stomping on that RP? Go Shadow or go rogue. Don't act upset or surprised if you try the whole forbidden relationship thing and it's forced to end - you knew what you were getting into. If you're really hell bent on it, either side-hop or go rogue. If you're unwilling to do that, that's kind of your hangup.
Long story short: for the most part, most orgs are pretty responsible about kicking people out and having restraint in using that power (except a few notable cases where it's definitely been abused). You CHOOSE to opt-in to the org's RP and the role they've constructed for themselves when you join it. Since classes aren't so strictly tied to guilds anymore, you're really free to pick whichever org suits your play style and ideals. If you're really that set on being in a particular org, you do have to play ball with the rules they set. Yes, you're forced into a mold. To an extent. But you're making that informed choice. If the rules an org sets really bother you, then you'll have to think about what it is you really want out of the game and your play.
Re: RP environment - outguilding
The objective of a guild is to develop one's character and the idealism they represent. It is not to be adverse to the guild's mission and existing in a constant state of conflict against those who are working to bolster the players within and provide positive reinforcement for not only new players but existing older ones.
If you are not aligning with the guilds ideas/roleplay....why are you in the guild? Is it purely to make an uncomfortable and stressful place for other players who are logging in to try and make an enjoyable place. The idea of multiclassing is so that you can play a Carnifex, but exist in your scientific brain, wanting to study bunnies as an Archivist. Or be a weaponmaster Templar who loves plants as a Shaman...embracing the bunnies and their spirits. We are given a diversity that allows us to be what we want to be while playing what we want to play.
We should want to be in an organization because we align and desire to cooperate with their style of gameplay, and work to help the organization grow. Me as a player, I have strong opinions on many things, but Oonagh wouldn't bring them into the game or his style of play....with the exception of memes, but honestly those stay in THINK commands....sorry @Desidora lol.
Anyways, I think it is fine and perfectly within reason to remove people from an organization who are detracting from its growth, causing infighting and a toxic environment because they choose to be adverse to the goals and missions of an organization. I think we should 100 percent hold people accountable for their behaviors. I did as Archmage, and I had roleplay reason to do so, and I was never unreasonable in my approach, offering mediation, discussion and opportunity to remedy issues.
TLDR, dont be a dick, and people wont be dicks back.
If you are not aligning with the guilds ideas/roleplay....why are you in the guild? Is it purely to make an uncomfortable and stressful place for other players who are logging in to try and make an enjoyable place. The idea of multiclassing is so that you can play a Carnifex, but exist in your scientific brain, wanting to study bunnies as an Archivist. Or be a weaponmaster Templar who loves plants as a Shaman...embracing the bunnies and their spirits. We are given a diversity that allows us to be what we want to be while playing what we want to play.
We should want to be in an organization because we align and desire to cooperate with their style of gameplay, and work to help the organization grow. Me as a player, I have strong opinions on many things, but Oonagh wouldn't bring them into the game or his style of play....with the exception of memes, but honestly those stay in THINK commands....sorry @Desidora lol.
Anyways, I think it is fine and perfectly within reason to remove people from an organization who are detracting from its growth, causing infighting and a toxic environment because they choose to be adverse to the goals and missions of an organization. I think we should 100 percent hold people accountable for their behaviors. I did as Archmage, and I had roleplay reason to do so, and I was never unreasonable in my approach, offering mediation, discussion and opportunity to remedy issues.
TLDR, dont be a dick, and people wont be dicks back.
Oonagh
5
Re: RP environment - outguilding
I can't necessarily agree with this, bearing in mind that I know the situation this post is primarily aimed at. If you have a player who, as a Templar, wants to be a slaver who sells denizens to Bloodlochian vampires, they're absolutely going to be told "You either change or you get out." Don't get me wrong, it's going to be couched in a lot more RP and gentle wording than that, but the change needs to be immediate because it runs completely contrary to Templar RP.
A guilds law and RP isn't set in stone, I appreciate that, however it still falls within a certain remit. If a person wants to run completely contrary to that, then that's their decision. However, you can't expect an entire organization of people who are in that guild specifically for its RP to want to see it changed for the sake of one person.
I do agree that outguilding should never be a direct threat to people or a cudgel to bash people over the head with however, if individuals want to repeatedly cause trouble or act in a manner that brings them into conflict with the guild they're in, they have to accept that it is a potential and likely consequence. To deny that is to essentially give anyone free reign regardless of their behavior.
You also single out guilds but leave cities alone, however, guilds exist within cities and are not sovereign territory and are answerable to the city they exist within. Using the original example, if I as the GM of the Templar allowed the slaver to continue in order to 'not dictate his RP' as you put it, I'd be firstly, putting myself at the mercy of the rest of the Templar who wouldn't and don't agree with the behavior and also the dissatisfaction of Enorian and its citizenry.
If an individual persists on pursuing a course of action that brings them into conflict with both the spirit and the laws of the guild they're a member of, despite numerous RPs and warnings etc then they shouldn't be surprised if they do get outguilded.
TLDR: The Indorani guild would beg to differ.
A guilds law and RP isn't set in stone, I appreciate that, however it still falls within a certain remit. If a person wants to run completely contrary to that, then that's their decision. However, you can't expect an entire organization of people who are in that guild specifically for its RP to want to see it changed for the sake of one person.
I do agree that outguilding should never be a direct threat to people or a cudgel to bash people over the head with however, if individuals want to repeatedly cause trouble or act in a manner that brings them into conflict with the guild they're in, they have to accept that it is a potential and likely consequence. To deny that is to essentially give anyone free reign regardless of their behavior.
You also single out guilds but leave cities alone, however, guilds exist within cities and are not sovereign territory and are answerable to the city they exist within. Using the original example, if I as the GM of the Templar allowed the slaver to continue in order to 'not dictate his RP' as you put it, I'd be firstly, putting myself at the mercy of the rest of the Templar who wouldn't and don't agree with the behavior and also the dissatisfaction of Enorian and its citizenry.
If an individual persists on pursuing a course of action that brings them into conflict with both the spirit and the laws of the guild they're a member of, despite numerous RPs and warnings etc then they shouldn't be surprised if they do get outguilded.
TLDR: The Indorani guild would beg to differ.
Re: Mildly Irritating: Aetolia's Pet Peeves
I agree with @Saidenn. I've come to realize that there are people I would love to get to know on an rp level that just don't put any effort back towards me, or seem to notice me. I can't force anyone to rp with me, noone can force rp.
Re: A Curious Question of Selling Coded Systems (and the revenue they generate)
What Rhyot is trying to say is that if you get Sunder you'll have a fully capable offense of dismantling everyone who put the work in themselves and is using homebrew.
What Rhyot doesn't know is that Sunder is garbage (no offense Jory ily) and anyone losing to it enough to be salty enough to drop passive aggressive comments about it every chance they get is even worse than a Sunder user. And they're a hypocrite, because they never voiced these complaints when Tripwire was top dog.
What Rhyot doesn't know is that Sunder is garbage (no offense Jory ily) and anyone losing to it enough to be salty enough to drop passive aggressive comments about it every chance they get is even worse than a Sunder user. And they're a hypocrite, because they never voiced these complaints when Tripwire was top dog.
Emir
5
Re: LOVE
Love, love, love to all of those who shaped Qelres into who he is. The characters who surround him make playing him a joy.
@Iazamat @Nerakh @Oemeria @Ephi @Galilei @Ayuna @Iosyne @Ivoln @Marin @Valdas @Elene @Rijetta
@Iazamat @Nerakh @Oemeria @Ephi @Galilei @Ayuna @Iosyne @Ivoln @Marin @Valdas @Elene @Rijetta
Qelres
10
Re: Mildly Irritating: Aetolia's Pet Peeves
I'll chime in and say that that sounds more like either an inability to set barriers or the preference of the individual who is the one in which both you (the player) and the other person (the offender) want to roleplay with. I hesitate to hold the offender accountable for the person you want to roleplay with not setting a barrier or having the ability to say "I am going to go do this thing with this other person now, I'll catch up with you later."
Third-parties are not in control of a first-party's actions and to blame the third-party is unfair to the third-party. If you make yourself known to the first-party and they never seem to make or have time for you, then I'd personally go find someone who does want to make time for you.
Third-parties are not in control of a first-party's actions and to blame the third-party is unfair to the third-party. If you make yourself known to the first-party and they never seem to make or have time for you, then I'd personally go find someone who does want to make time for you.
Saidenn
15
Re: Sunder
Hi everyone. After lots of updates and changes, I am excited to be able to bring you a new version of Sunder. The full changelog is located within the system itself, but in an overview:
- Refined and enhanced tracking for many, many more lines
- Updates to all changes and reports to skills/interactions
- New features for utility, such as vermin and shop interactions
- A slew of new helpfiles to explain facets of the system
- Expanded bashing capability far beyond previous versions
- Intelligent defup with checking skills, raceskills and tattoos
- Integration of an expanded name database for tracking
Not sure of the above link so posting a new one that I know will never expire: https://discord.gg/z33s7SX
This would not be possible without the many folks who helped provide information, test and so much more, including:
@Rhine @Iesid @Valeria @Valorie @Validan @Oonagh @Sryaen @Saybre and many others. Especially the community of folks who use the Sunder discord and help others with Sunder or general coding problems.
- Refined and enhanced tracking for many, many more lines
- Updates to all changes and reports to skills/interactions
- New features for utility, such as vermin and shop interactions
- A slew of new helpfiles to explain facets of the system
- Expanded bashing capability far beyond previous versions
- Intelligent defup with checking skills, raceskills and tattoos
- Integration of an expanded name database for tracking
Not sure of the above link so posting a new one that I know will never expire: https://discord.gg/z33s7SX
This would not be possible without the many folks who helped provide information, test and so much more, including:
@Rhine @Iesid @Valeria @Valorie @Validan @Oonagh @Sryaen @Saybre and many others. Especially the community of folks who use the Sunder discord and help others with Sunder or general coding problems.
Stine
7
