You could take it a wild step further and differentiate class and guild names entirely.I do like that idea. Like if Carnimirror is going to be something to do with using spirit in conjunction with blades/glaives could be a 'Battlemage' compared to current Templar skills which could be classed as 'Warden'.
So, for example, if you were in the Syssin guild, you could choose to be a Sneak (current Syssin Skillset with a new name) or an Interrogator (new mirror class tied to the guild)
So, unguilded people could say they have the skills, but that doesn't make them "A Syssin"
...I cannot speak for the others but that's what I disagree with. There are many reasons and situations that call for outguilding. Treason (Selling guild secrets, stealing from the guild, killing guild members [especially leadership], actively going against guild goals and ideals, etc.) tends to be the common reason that outguildings occur. Although not as often cited and usually open to a wide berth of interpretation and thus typically more open to disputes , organizational health is another valid reason for outguilding someone. The list can go on really.
If this is what the conversation distills into, there will always be something you want from the other half of the game, and you're trying to have your cake and eat it too.
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I have actual opinions on the outguild button though. As explained in HELP 8.7:
While a Guildmaster may, at his or her option, choose to expel a guildmember, the Gods prefer that some leniency is given, especially for young members.
Kicking someone from a guild should happen never. [......] There is never a reason to permanently ban anyone, and no exiling should last longer than a real life year. Enemy status should not be maintained for longer than a year, though I'm completely cool with requiring that the exile ask to have enemy status actually lifted.
What situations demand a boot? If you can ISSUE the person, and you think you will win, you can probably go ahead with the boot. There are 0 other reasons to destroy someone's rank, put into question their works, destroy their ability to vote, remove their sanction privileges, and remove access to stuff within a guildhall for less. The room for abuse is huge.
I think the majority consensus will probably fall on "as long as the offender has class, outguilding can be done for (nearly) any RP reason."Honestly even knowing most of that story along with a few other arguably bad outguilding stories, I'd say that the freedom allowed by having player-run orgs is 100% worth the few instances of failure, especially since admin have shown a willingness to step in if things get too out of hand (Sentinels I think in the past, and more recently the Archivists).