Warzone Aura

XeniaXenia Member Posts: 1,076 ✭✭✭✭✭

Over the course of this proxy war event there've been some shifts and changes to open PK zones in an attempt to maintain balance and allow a way for everyone to participate with enough breathing room to not be overwhelmed with PK. Currently the villages do not give aura but the areas outside do. As things continue I'm seeing more and more disputes over people being killed without aura and the lines are becoming increasingly blurred. I've been thinking on how this can be resolved because 'Follow these clear cut rules' doesn't really work. The rules, while defined, get lost as people gain negative experiences with one another and feel they have justifiable cause for stepping outside the PK-Aura. I'd love to see this reworked, below are two solutions I think could address the problem.

Villages give Aura, there is no safety anywhere within the warzones. Enter at your own risk.


Villages give aura but add the ability to become a 'pacifist' war supporter. While this option is selected, players won't receive war aura, will not be able to march troops, nor attack war related npc's, or engage in PvP with players who are within the war related areas (Liruma, Mitrine, Ophidian Empire, etc). This protects them from random ganks and makes them immune to accidental ganking. This is a one time opt in thing. At any time during the war, you have the option to reject your pacifist ways, and you will then gain aura just like everyone else, and be open to any attacks from enemy factions so long as you are within the war related areas. After rejecting your pacifist status, you are locked in for the rest of the war as a combatant. This shouldn't cause any problems with troop management now that you can pass off your troops to other people. Admin might need up how many divisions a person can have under their control, however.


I'm interested in hearing what people think of these solutions as well as any others they have in mind. Discuss!

EmirIazamatTozAxiusMjollKalakRhyotOonagh

Comments

  • AishiaAishia Queen Bee Member Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think the problem is hanging out in non pk zones waiting to pk people more than anything. If you want to pk you should be waiting in the pk zones.
    httpsimages-ext-1discordappnetexternal8be0wXv29U0b9e3Zx0Ms-6O19NtmwxMAGo0Hqkw83Ochttpscdndiscordappcomattachments494775592382627840609989230072168448aish_wo_bgpngwidth960height614
    Azu
  • XeniaXenia Member Posts: 1,076 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Aishia said:

    I think the problem is hanging out in non pk zones waiting to pk people more than anything. If you want to pk you should be waiting in the pk zones.

    . The rules, while defined, get lost as people gain negative experiences with one another and feel they have justifiable cause for stepping outside the PK-Aura.


    I could air out a laundry list of things that have happened, so could you and or others, blah blah blah and end it with 'Why don't you just follow the rules?!'. I'm suggesting we avoid all this by making it a true warzone with the option to be a pacifist and excluded from combat.

  • AishiaAishia Queen Bee Member Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I feel like it's supposed to be like you said, a proxy war. I think probably both sides are spending too much time trying to engage with each other at the back end of the war, when the intention was probably only to be while moving troops/bashing enemy units/completing hostile objectives in war zone areas.
    There's supposed to be some leeway to do the nonhostile ones. It kinda sounds like you're proposing a MORE problematic and less inclusive version where like half the playerbase or more won't even want to log in or participate anymore. Should probably be pushing pk AWAY from the villages rather than just making it so no one can participate without getting dogpiled by 10 man gank squads from either side. Inb4 dogpile of partisan forum reactions.
    httpsimages-ext-1discordappnetexternal8be0wXv29U0b9e3Zx0Ms-6O19NtmwxMAGo0Hqkw83Ochttpscdndiscordappcomattachments494775592382627840609989230072168448aish_wo_bgpngwidth960height614
    Xenia
  • XeniaXenia Member Posts: 1,076 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2018
    There's always this threat that "people" are going to stop logging in/playing/participating. Granted I am new compared to many of you but I've yet to see evidence of this in my time playing.

    There's also never been active warfare since I've players. At what point is this player base going to evolve and move on from whatever happened > 5 years ago? Who's to say some players aren't going to get hooked and take a larger interest in PK and breathe a new set of life?

    Just because you have no interest in helping a new generation of players learn to PK or usher them through the process, deal with the set backs and losses, doesn't mean that others don't or won't and will now have an excuse to do so.

    Edit: This part was probably abuse flag worthy. My bad.



    TrikalEmirIazamatKalak
  • AishiaAishia Queen Bee Member Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Was something you mostly saw in previous iterations of war I suppose. Whole world got open pk some cities pushed militia involvement too much so everyone was open pk.
    httpsimages-ext-1discordappnetexternal8be0wXv29U0b9e3Zx0Ms-6O19NtmwxMAGo0Hqkw83Ochttpscdndiscordappcomattachments494775592382627840609989230072168448aish_wo_bgpngwidth960height614
  • TekiasTekias WisconsinMember Posts: 365 ✭✭✭
    Just gonna put this out there: The goal was clearly to be inclusive to all sorts: Com, Non-Com alike. There's missions that have absolutely nothing to do with combat or hunting at all. There's missions that thrive in it. Making it all PK (even with an exclusion option) seems a step back from what the intent is, rather than making it better.
    Formerly: Spiegel. Eidycue.

    Hi.

    image
    EowynSaritaTeaniOonagh
  • KalakKalak Member Posts: 274 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2018
    Thematically I always found aura appear as outlandish because it is a separation indicator between PvP, PvE and non-combat activities. The war event has been a good step towards going away from detached avenues of conflict (Ylem, Sect etc.) to seamless ones and we might as well take the next step and turn warzone into a total hotzone.

    There is always a risk that one person can stop playing actively, we should not put that worry into our equation. But in throughout my time within IRE I have yet to see people leaving in droves because they were killed 2-3 times while doing their routine ingame activities. Mostly people leave after burning out due to a kind of drama within organizations. The deaths of people instead create validation for protectors, mercenary guard, assassin, bounty hunter roles. I find it awkward in this game people can declare you an enemy to their entire faction and expect going about their business in peace.

    Now back to the warzone issue at hand, non-coms giving crafts and fishroes can be considered RPwise a logistical operation and in war disrupting logistical operations is one of the keys to success. Killing a faction NPC, supplying factions with crucial items and denying enemies such supplies are part of the deal.

    For example, when Kalak bought 250 wound dressings from Enorian at 1 gold per, he was promptly declared an enemy to Enorian. Which was a non-com purchase activity from the outset. But for war it was a minor logistical disruption worth 500 cloth commodity. So why should we not consider fishroes and sweetgrass in similar vein? If one party is adamant on farming them, they would be denying fishroes and sweetgrass to the other side. I am not saying they should be declared enemies for that act but they should be under a modicum of risk for harvesting for war and delivering to the hotzone.
    XeniaZailaHaven
  • EowynEowyn SomewhereMember Posts: 106 ✭✭✭
    None of the solutions above will help the situation. As others have already said, it'll just make it worse for those who are just trying to help be involved.

    1. Very few are participating solely for RP reasons, and are trying to help out for their primary org's sake. No one in our two orgs will -not- want to be able to get troops for their efforts.

    2. Most deal with what aura they do get right now, very few slipping around it. It's often hard to find someone who can bring you in, and you all have been countering those sneaking in options fine. I'm probably the only one right now with a steady, non-avoidable way to get in without getting aura that you can't stop. Wormholes can be canceled, rooms can be mono'd for songline/portal/del/etc, cube so people can't re-lightform/phase. It uses supplies, sure, but that's part of a 'war', even a proxy one. Using up our commodities.

    3. The only real benefit of having aura in villages is that we could attack those that camp a board without having to worry about them not having aura from sitting there too long.

    What we have now is not great, but it works for a proxy war. I'd rather not tip the scale and frustrate either side more than they already are.
    TekiasXenia
  • EowynEowyn SomewhereMember Posts: 106 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2018
    Neither side is any better than the other side in either following or not following the rules consistently. Neither side is better than the other in any regard to this war. We've all been jerks in different capacities and situations - that is the way of the game, unfortunately. One side acts, the other side retaliates, one side acts harder, the other side goes harder, and it keeps going back and forth until both are just livid at each other. If we started a list, we'd see that, but all it would do is start arguments that serve no purpose but to re-frustrate tensions that are already strained.

    In the end, I will still remain on my point that the suggestions will not help. Maybe the no-pk flag thing -if- people still get troops and can assign them to someone else, but I don't think enough to see any significant difference in participation/frustration.

    Edit: I do think what Fezzix says would work. Friendly village safe, enemy village you get aura. That I could get behind.
  • TozToz Member Posts: 2,491 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Our jerk status is camping the mission boards and killing people who have aura. That is a completely permitted kill, following the letter of the law. Anyone who killed a lifer with no aura has been reamed by us and our leadership any time it has been brought to our attention, and I'd wager that it hasn't happened period in a week or two.

    Conversely, light side has killed more people lately with no aura - they are actively getting worse about it. Their leadership is doing it and encouraging it, you included. I'm not upset about that though, because I'd prefer it be that way. I am upset about the disparity and double standards that have continued throughout the war.

    If we have to play with no aura no pk, and things don't change, I'm not sure what the next step is aside from issues- I've already been hunting down the people who jumped me without aura several times, but that doesn't seem to be discouraging the illegal activity.

    To summarize, I'm guilty of being an unicorns, at worst. You are guilty of knowingly, willingly and repeatedly violating PK rules. I think the rules you violated are dumb, inflexible, and should be changed. If you disagree, please stop breaking them because I don't want to issue my friends.

    Arbre-Today at 7:27 PM

    You're a vindictive lil unicorn
    ---------------------------

    Lartus-Today at 7:16 PM

    oh wait, toz is famous
    ---------------------------

    Karhast-Today at 7:01 PM

    You're a singularity of unicorns awfulness Toz
    IazamatMjollEmirXenia
  • IazamatIazamat Member Posts: 148 ✭✭✭
    Can someone actually explain how it's worse/won't help instead of repeating that ad nauseam?
  • RhyotRhyot BloodlochMember Posts: 400 ✭✭✭✭
    I actually think that marking the entire area and both villages as open PK areas will help. This is supposed to be a war. You're supposed to run disruption missions, you're supposed to target high profile characters and eliminate them. You're supposed to break supply lines and you're supposed to stop your enemies from gathering. All of these are actual things that happen in wars. This should be no different.

    Aetolia is a game that is meant to encompass all sorts of people. Lately, its been punishing people who want to do PK away by taking away any form of PK at all. Until the war, there's been very little Sect fighting and only group fights in the forms of lessers/majors. Most people don't even do the orrery anymore because of pathetic rewards or because the missions at the mission board REQUIRE things to be done with the orrery. Because of the war, we're seeing a lot more PK and it's a lot more fun. You're seeing a lot more Sect fights as well. You're also seeing a lot more 1v1 activity too! Something that's been on the decline for the past year!

    More and more we see things pushed to the RP side of things and less the PK side of things (re: Three Widows War). Wanting protection status to help in the war is part of this problem.


    The community as a whole needs to understand that war is meant to be a completely PK avenue. Yes, non-comms can help, but even they need to realize that their help can AND IS seen as support for the enemy, especially if you're running missions. You're ACTIVELY helping in the war, which by legal terms, makes you active combatant and active participant.

    TLDR: @Xenia and @Toz are right. Make the villages open pk and let loose the dogs of war.


    Zaila
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