Who is cool with getting rid of TELLs? *poll done*

ZailaZaila Pacific TimeMember Posts: 547 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited February 1 in Harpy's Head Tavern
This is an idle curiosity that has been in the back of my mind since the April Fools prank last year, and finally sparked the poll by @emelle's comment in the gold-sink thread. I am not proposing a method by which this would be enacted, but lets pretend there's some appropriately fitting, RP'd event or something that makes it happen (feel free to hypothesize on what that would be in a comment).

Would you (overall) like getting rid of the capacity to use TELLs.
Post edited by Zaila on

Who is cool with getting rid of TELLs? *poll done* 53 votes

No.
79%
IlyonXavinSaritaKonnornArbreLinJamiMarienaHavenAkaryuterraTeaniAislingTinaIrruelTozXeniaAtrapoemaValdusAishiaKelliara 42 votes
Yes; but only if every other method of communication remained unchanged.
11%
PerilunaSethTrikalMihaketiMazarinePazradym 6 votes
Yes; and also get rid of some other IC channels. (feel free to explain which in a comment)
9%
EmelleFyrrenLeanaIstiraValain 5 votes

Comments

  • RhyotRhyot BloodlochMember Posts: 490 ✭✭✭✭
    No.
    I have a handful of people that I talk to via OOC tells because we either a) don't share clans together, b) want to talk about whatever without other people jumping onto a conversation, or c) we're opposite sides but still want to talk to the other in an OOC manner.

    This, for me, would greatly alienate who I can/can't talk to in an OOC manner.


    Zaila
  • KodazaKodaza Los AngelesMember Posts: 115 ✭✭✭
    No.
    I feel like some asides are too quick and casual to warrant having to send a full letter. Sometimes you just want to say "Oops, didn't see you" when you accidentally poach someone else's hunting, or say "we got separated" when you go off balance following someone for some reason or another.

    My initial instincts are also that it'd take away an important tool for checking on novices, but I suppose the counter to that argument is that it'd make novice chat more active? So I'm persuadable on that front.

    Zaila
  • TrikalTrikal Member Posts: 156 ✭✭✭
    Yes; but only if every other method of communication remained unchanged.
    Sure, and to point to Kodaza's things of losing someone / stealing a kill on accident, you could just yell it which makes a lot of sense ICly as you loose someone you yell out "Oi! You left me behind" or just yell out "Sorry" in passing as you continue on your murder spree.
  • ZailaZaila Pacific TimeMember Posts: 547 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No.
    As a point of reference: this pretend change would still allow messages to work the same - so short snippets like the first couple @kodaza mentioned would be easily still doable, but a whole messaged conversation and the ease of individual ooc chatter without having to open up a web would definitely be impeded.
  • EmelleEmelle Dreamshaper Tecpatl's CradleMember Posts: 712 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes; and also get rid of some other IC channels. (feel free to explain which in a comment)
    I think limiting methods of IC communication to more realistic means (like letters and messages) would help cultivate a culture where people group up more often, which seems to be a main goal with some of the forthcoming changes. It would require some adjustments on the part of players obviously, but overall I think it would be great for immersion.
    Trikal
  • ApianoraApianora NowhereMember Posts: 20 ✭✭
    No.
    I'd say over 75% of my communication, especially IC, is in tells. Besides that, I can only imagine how beyond frustrating this would be for newbies, be they true newbies or IRE newbies. I mean, tells are as easy as typing the person's name and some text. Messages/channels require further commands.

    Plus, would this also include removing it from mobs as well? Because if so, it'd break functionality of people using their shop mobs for RP and make a pain for admin with multi-mob events.

    I could go on in more detail as to all of my no's to this, but I'll leave it at these few as they are the primary. I don't see enough benefit of losing tells or any other current channel forms that would improve immersion more than people just making an effort, as a community, to improve immersion in their own way.
  • MarienaMariena By a lake. Member Posts: 616 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No.
    No.

    That would hamstring a vital part of talking, newbie helping and initiating rp, getting consent for more snarly rp (If you're doing heavier, darker, etc story lines), and would take you right out of rp if you had to read an ooc SAY.



  • ZailaZaila Pacific TimeMember Posts: 547 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2017
    No.
    Apianora said:

    [for newbies] I mean, tells are as easy as typing the person's name and some text. Messages/channels require further commands.

    I'd argue NEWBIE is easier to remember than figuring out someone's name then saying something to them, but if you mean for OOC conversation that you want to do privately: yes definitely easiest via tells.
    Apianora said:

    would this also include removing it from mobs as well?

    No, my suggestion up there was intended to only cover the purview of player-to-player tells.
    Mariena said:

    getting consent for more snarly rp (If you're doing heavier, darker, etc story lines), and would take you right out of rp if you had to read an ooc SAY.

    Most people I interact with seem to do this with messages already, so that wouldn't really be a problem with this theorized system.
  • MorwenMorwen Under The SeaMember Posts: 27 ✭✭✭
    No.
    I don't have any problem with tells or the different IC channels.

    Tangent: I do, however, dislike the use of an OOC channel for IC ylem coordination. I would prefer an IC tether/ylem channel for that kind of communication so I don't have to join an OOC channel to participate in IC events.
  • TozToz Member Posts: 2,494 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No.
    I don't think it would help with people grouping in public. You'd just wind up with people grouping privately with the ones they want to talk to, or chatting in webs instead. I like tells because I can sit in my haven mostly afk/coding and still reply to things somewhat, without the pressure of emoting in time with a scene or some social setting. Plus, for RL stuff, I sometimes have to abruptly afk- with no tells, why sit online and leave people waiting for emotes every 15 min when I can sorta RP with tells and keep it casual?

    Tl;Dr this won't give any real benefit/gain, because it won't make people group and it'll be a headache overall.

    Arbre-Today at 7:27 PM

    You're a vindictive lil unicorn
    ---------------------------

    Lartus-Today at 7:16 PM

    oh wait, toz is famous
    ---------------------------

    Karhast-Today at 7:01 PM

    You're a singularity of unicorns awfulness Toz
  • MorwenMorwen Under The SeaMember Posts: 27 ✭✭✭
    No.
    I also wanted to add that as a GM, I would find this change to be very burdensome. There are many times where multiple people require my attention and tells help me be partake in multiple conversations at once. If I had to go and sit in a room to talk to every single person vying for my attention, I would get very little done in the time I have in game... Including the things I personally enjoy because I would be unable to efficiently multitask.
    ZailaFezzixTeani
  • IstiraIstira HereMember Posts: 6
    Yes; and also get rid of some other IC channels. (feel free to explain which in a comment)
    I definitely understand and sympathize with a lot of the points being made, but I also think that the removal of tells would necessitate more creativity in how we communicate IC.

    People wanting to buy/sell/trade would need to actually meet up with their clients or suppliers and negotiate fees and terms in person. GMs would need to schedule and host regular meetings with their chief subordinates, while expecting letters from those unable to be physically present, and task a particular member with recording minutes, delegation would become absolutely vital, etc... Just like a RL org. It would breathe a lot of life into otherwise brief or mundane encounters.

    I guess it feels like a less drastic change for me because I've spent a lot of time playing an RPI that doesn't have tells. In that game, if you want to RP, you just go to a public gathering place and see what's up, get involved. You don't know what's going on with the people around you unless you actually make the effort to engage with them.

    My primary concern would be, as others have stated, how it would impact newbies. It can be intimidating and alienating to require new players to step out of their comfort zone before they're comfortable with the basics.

    All that said, Aetolia (along with all the other IRE MUDs) isn't an RPI. The game is so rich with content and mechanics that it attracts all kinds of different players -- people who want to grind levels, write intricate storylines with other characters, become a badass PvPer, a politician, a crafter, a merchant, chill out and chat with friends, or just sit around and fish, and so on and on. Basically, we all go to the same restaurant, but we don't all have to order the same thing from the menu.

    tl;dr: My vote is a selfish one. I personally would dig forcing players to be more hands-on with the game world. But I'm not sure if Aetolia at large, with its intention to cater to a whole different range of playstyles, is the right setting for such a big push towards RP focus.
    EmelleTrikal
  • CinarraCinarra Member Posts: 12
    No.
    This is likely repeating the theme of previous comments, but my main concern is newbies.

    Tells are very useful because they are bright yellow and stand out against the (default) black background. They are good for people who are new to MUDs, who might otherwise not catch GNT (which defaults to white at the start) or other forms of communication, that may be easily overlooked in any number of different kinds of spam. Even says are easy to overlook, because NPCs say things all the time.

    It is especially notable for new people using the Nexus client, because the Communications tab defaults to being in the same window as the quests/tasks tabs, meaning if someone is nose-down trying to figure out some quest or task, they might not catch communications from other players until they learn to customize the client.

    And the newbie channel, while useful and bright green, can be intimidating or concerning to new players who don't wish to trouble a large number of people, or who are just a bit shy about asking a whole channel for help.
    KodazaZaila
  • KelliaraKelliara Member Posts: 575 ✭✭✭✭
    No.
    I'm actually of two minds about this.

    On the one hand, I don't entirely disprove of removing a few methods of comminucation, such as ones that have been mentioned up above.

    On the other hand, though, I use tells a lot to handle city things. Particularly when people have trouble finding me, or if I'm dealing with several things at once.

    While I'm 100% sure I'd figure out a way to manage without them, I can't deny that they're damned convenient
    Now with 253% more Madness.
    Cute-Kelli by @Sessizlik.
    Kodaza
  • FezzixFezzix Member Posts: 306 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2017
    No.
    Emelle said:

    I think limiting methods of IC communication to more realistic means (like letters and messages) would help cultivate a culture where people group up more often, which seems to be a main goal with some of the forthcoming changes. It would require some adjustments on the part of players obviously, but overall I think it would be great for immersion.

    My tells are IC. How does my means of communication detract from roleplay? Characters who are less inclined to be social still won't be social. Nobody in this thread has mentioned that tells are another form of roleplay, and if any physical interaction is desired, they can easily meet up. For simple inquiries and one-off thoughts, tells are perfect, and I get a LOT of them as a GM/Senator.
    Zaila said:

    As a point of reference: this pretend change would still allow messages to work the same - so short snippets like the first couple @kodaza mentioned would be easily still doable, but a whole messaged conversation and the ease of individual ooc chatter without having to open up a web would definitely be impeded.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't messages take up server space? Messages are much more inconvenient, but let's say by your argument that people simply switch to them instead of using tells. Doing so defeats the intent of forcing people to group up.

  • FaerahFaerah Member Posts: 218 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2017
    Istira said:

    GMs would need to schedule and host regular meetings with their chief subordinates, while expecting letters from those unable to be physically present, and task a particular member with recording minutes, delegation would become absolutely vital, etc... Just like a RL org. It would breathe a lot of life into otherwise brief or mundane encounters.

    This is really expecting way too much out of people who already spend a rather large bulk of their time enhancing other player's playing experiences. Also, I don't know what meetings you go to, but the RL org meetings *I* go to have people on a Skype screen with everyone else talking to other people (via chat and catching up with emails) on their laptops while also flipping through their phones... Along with people phone conferencing in... So... RL orgs function a bit differently in my world than you suggest.
    Post edited by Faerah on
    ZailaIstiraKelliara
  • LeanaLeana Member Posts: 225 ✭✭✭
    Yes; and also get rid of some other IC channels. (feel free to explain which in a comment)
    As long as you keep the message system in place, the Newbie channel, and webs for pvp functions or ooc communication (with some enforceable restrictions), it -could- work, but probably won't. And if people keep switching to web/message/something, then those channels gotta go too.

    It would make the world feel bigger, more mysterious, dangerous, and fulfilling to explore. Functions in the game that already exist would have new meaning, such as the letter and board system. I just like the idea of going to a tavern or city center or other hot spot to find people actually taking part in the world. What we have today is most people just ignore the rooms for the most part unless scheduled RP happens, an event, or it's their own personal rp location they always initiate in.

    I'm not stupid and I know that our small playerbase requires these instant communications to function for organization. Clans, City, Guild, and Tells make up almost all the communication. I also don't think it's a good idea to change a game's method of operating over a decade into it's life if you're not reinventing it due to extreme failure. This is never going to happen, but it's a thought experiment to shed light on the way we communicate now. I hope the people replying remember this is just a conversation and not some new policy that is actually being considered or will ever be considered by IRE.


    IstiraEmelle
  • ZailaZaila Pacific TimeMember Posts: 547 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No.
    re: GMs having to hold meetings

    Yeah, going to have to back Faerah on this one. RL meetings of more than three people that I can't multitask are often exercises in tedium and "please someone shoot me now"

    Additionally, large-scale RP group events are something I tend to avoid because either I can't keep up reading, can't get a word in edgewise, or I'm just bored to tears because I have nothing to do. None of those experiences are gonna breathe new life into an encounter.
    IstiraKelliara
  • IstiraIstira HereMember Posts: 6
    Yes; and also get rid of some other IC channels. (feel free to explain which in a comment)
    Er, sorry if I caused any offense; I seem to have ruffled a feather or two.

    I didn't mean to make anybody feel singled out, I was throwing out some loose and general examples. I'm obviously coming from a very different gaming background, and was just expressing my perspective. Some of my most favourite memories from my time as a GM were the guild-wide gatherings, so I was mostly drawing from those experiences. I didn't mean to presume anything.
  • ZailaZaila Pacific TimeMember Posts: 547 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No.
    @Istira
    People arguing against your ideas doesn't mean we're offended or that you've ruffled our feathers, it just means they disagree, definitely don't worry about it.

    The point of this thread was "let us all share wildly different opinions while satiating my curiosity and thinking critically about how we all utilize the functions in the game." Polite disagreement like what I've seen here is encouraged!
    Istira
  • FaerahFaerah Member Posts: 218 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2017
    Please don't mistake my aggressive tone for anything other than me sometimes being unable to turn the lawyer off when I get home from work. I am not easily offended... Just easily driven to argue with people. *cough*
    ZailaIstira
  • AkaryuterraAkaryuterra Member Posts: 63 ✭✭✭
    No.
    I admit, this is probably lazy of, but I feel this would be a bad idea, because there are times I am happy to communicate, but do not feel like the full rigors of engaging in RP.

    In these instances, I feel I would likely favor not engaging, over engaging, because it was more than I was inclined to engage in at a given point in time. This would especially be the case if there was a gathering of more than a couple people - ie five or more people at the inner gate or something.

    This would, in some cases, lead to the opposite effect for people who are not comfortable with crowd roleplay.
    image
    ZailaArbreKodaza
  • XeniaXenia Member Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No.
    I would like to actually have the option to say No, but get rid of city and guild channels. I've always liked being forced to all talk in a group, but allow for individual communications. I can never justify how it all works ICly that we can speak on a channel.

    ZailaEmelle
  • IlyonIlyon Member Posts: 746 ✭✭✭
    No.
    In a game that is all about interaction between players, reducing means of communication (be it tells or org channels or whatever) is about the worst thing you could do, and all it'd achieve is less interaction.

    ZailaRoxi
  • TeaniTeani Shadow Mistress SwedenMember Posts: 2,122 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No.
    Like some others have already mentioned, as an org leader, it makes it virtually impossible to keep all the balls in the air without the option of communicating via channels and/or tells.

    As for some other things people have mentioned, it's still possible to do in-person stuff like trade and meetings. I do this regularly. At times I even tell people that I won't have certain discussions over tells because it makes no sense. Other times, I might be rushed because of RL stuff and the convenience of being able to simply send a tell, get a response or send confirmation without interrupting someone else and what they are doing takes away a lot of stress.

    When it comes to assisting with people grouping up, I will simply bring up the good old "get rid of the damn hoods" and "remove havens from the game" argument and you'll be able to see more people who are around because they can't hide. Removing tells won't necessarily see this happen.

    Removing org communication sounds ridiculous to me, simply because sometimes an org needs an easy way to rally. I sometimes play with the notion of it being like the market channel where you have to wait a certain amount of time before you can use it again, but I've had a lot of fun and productive discussions over those channels too and those are equally important as meeting up for real.



    Istira
  • TozToz Member Posts: 2,494 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No.
    Also every RPI I have played/been a part of except one (CarrierRPI) has had some kind of system of long-distance talking or communication. ARPI/PRPI/Haven(wasn't there long) all had radios or cell phones put in so you could reach out and nudge people for RP. Black Sands had some minor telepathy for organizing people, though it was somewhat limited, Carrier technically had thought sharing though it was more randomized, and I *think* ARM also has some telepathy, even a good chunk of RPIs have a system for organizing people/chatting, it just mostly gets used differently because like @Oleis says, RPIs play different.

    Arbre-Today at 7:27 PM

    You're a vindictive lil unicorn
    ---------------------------

    Lartus-Today at 7:16 PM

    oh wait, toz is famous
    ---------------------------

    Karhast-Today at 7:01 PM

    You're a singularity of unicorns awfulness Toz
  • GogrutGogrut Member Posts: 6
    For RP reasons I'd say I'm cool with removing TELLS because they could be replaced with letters and such so it's a bit more realistic.
    But for OOC communications it could be a problem.
    image
    Zaila
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