Age of Dawn

So a lot of talk about the Age of Dawn in the game. Spirit aligned Divine really starting to become active and stuff about Sabelism. Just kinda wonderin if the theme of Achaea and Aetolia were planning on switching? Any thoughts, comments, ideas guys? Doesn't seem like a gigantic leap to me. Obviously it would be a big role play thing involved. But lets face it, Spirit guilds and organizations don't have nearly the numbers and power Shadow ones do. So kinda makes sense to get a more balanced game, throw a little bone to the Spirit guys so to say.
«13

Comments

  • Hm. I'm actually opposed to this somewhat. The Age of Dawn as I understand it isn't something that can be obtained so easily. It means no more undeath, no more Corruption, no more Artifice. In other words, Good wins, the end. As much as I would like to see this, claiming that 'The Age of Dawn is here!' and still having a Dark side about would cheapen it. Also, for the record, I do wish that they'd just stuck with 'Aiyr Sabael' rather than 'Sabaelism'. It translates literally to 'Faithism', which equates in my mind to 'Happy Happyism'. And also, y'know, worked with Auresae's Order more closely than ended up happening. I didn't hear a word about it until after it got pushed through. Ahem. Anyway, yeah. I vote to keep it as an ideal, treat it like it's going to happen. But some shift in the status quo would be nice, yes.
    Avatar courtesy of Eleanor. Thank you!
    ~~

    image




    ~~
    Always interested in knowing how I'm doing!
    IshinJensen
  • I'm not sure why the admin are pushing towards Sabaelism, really. Especially as it seems to be based on the idea of the Age of Dawn which has been a concept since the founding of the Luminaries and the Daru. The idea of the Age of Dawn is that it is the age in which Corruption is purged, vampirism is no more, etc. Essentially, an end to the Midnight Age. It isn't really a new idea, as it is one that has been going around Luminary/Daru/Auresian circles for almost 15 years now.

    Ultimately, it doesn't really change anything as it's the same concept that has been around. The big difference is it's being pushed Enorian-wide. Even arguing that that is a difference is a stretch, though, as various CL's have made that push (Including myself).

    By its very concept, the Age of Dawn is unachievable because, well.. that's the axis the game's conflict lives on Living/Undeath, Purity/Corruption, Light/Darkness. The various events that take place are different chapters of that battle, so essentially, you have been seeing the advancement?

    The population imbalance has existed for a long time, sometimes it goes one way, sometimes another.
    JensenIshin
  • Gonna kinda echo Mel and Kyl here. I'd like to SOME kind of push in that aspect (as in being "Oh hey, we're Light, and we did this THING") to put a bit of contention back, but not eliminating the premise of the game.

    But Kylan is right, it'd be kinda game ending to be like "Light wins, GG."

  • ArekaAreka Drifting in a sea of wenches' bosoms
    @Melantha - What work would you have wanted with Auresae's Order? Other than the term, it isn't an extension of the one order but an encompassing of all of them. We tried to work with each order evenly - it's what the clan was, each order was to have the OH and a representative there. Offers were made. Sabaelism as a phrase is simply because it is more accessible to more people than expecting everyone to translate multiple words of the aiyr mo fowatzu wutang wo sheallagh whathaveyous.

    As to Age of Dawn - it's a roleplay device and rallying point for the organizations. It isn't feasible to actually happen in the game unless you're going to cut to end credits.


    image
  • edited January 2015
    @Areka Most of my reasons are somewhat selfish, I admit, and a lot of my discontent is nebulous. Illumine is supposed to be an Order-specific language, and a formal one, at that. For a long time, it's been roleplayed as such. Now, all of a sudden, it's being used to legitimize something that, on the face of it, seems to fly in the face of literally years of established city and guild roleplay. Something that literally came out of nowhere. And for pity's sake, did the very first thing mentioned have to be someone nursing a hangover after a foursome? That the language isn't exclusive to Auresae's Order, sure. That throwing around multiple words of it is impractical, I can understand. But when it's "Behold the ancient scrolls we found, written in holy Illumine!", you expect something, I dunno, classier? There are any number of ways that it could be made more acceptable. Heck, once you get into the actual dogma, I can even agree with a lot of it. I just feel that was a poor way to go about it. And I still maintain that Sabaelism reminds me of this. At least shorten it to 'Sabael'? Nothing at all wrong with that. Without actually having been there for the formative phase, I can't really point out anything else concrete that I'd have liked to see.
    Avatar courtesy of Eleanor. Thank you!
    ~~

    image




    ~~
    Always interested in knowing how I'm doing!
  • What @Tenshyo‌ said is more to what I was referring
  • Something that shifts the balance and the light is on top could be considered the 'Age of Dawn' in my book
  • JensenJensen Corruption's Butcher
    Divine intervention making one side win doesn't sound like a good idea. With that in mind it would be nice to see a village saved or forest untainted every once in a while. It also brings me to my next idea.

    A landmarks style mechanic for forests and towns. Has a long timer and theatrically replaces an area with a light/dark version depending on who wins. Could be ciem style, could be puzzles, could be capture the flag, could be rejuvenating/exterminating. Could also be area specific. Gives you guys at least a chance to clean some spots up and have something tangible to rally behind.
    image
    MelanthaIshinArekaHavenSaervokPerilunaErzsebet
  • @Jensen Divine intervention would -have- to happen in this scenario, at least for Good to win out. After all, "all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing". So, yeah. That it's an... impractical idea isn't being questioned. But I really like your mechanic idea. Seems like it would be a real pain to code, though.
    Avatar courtesy of Eleanor. Thank you!
    ~~

    image




    ~~
    Always interested in knowing how I'm doing!
  • JensenJensen Corruption's Butcher
    No idea how difficult it would be. I know designing whole new room descriptions would be an undertaking.
    image
  • From the sound of if, Sabaelism sounds like more of a push to kinda give Enorian a bit more freedom. In the past there have been complaints that RPing out lifer characters in Enorian limits you somewhat in regards to what you can do, since a lot of things would be labeled as bad/evil/wrong.

    With the opening lines (according to Melantha, I didn't get to read it) being about nursing a hangover after a foursome, it kinda shows that the people of the light could indulge in things that'd maybe be frowned upon for the good city, whilst still pursuing their goals.

    A bit more freedom in RP is always a good thing you'd think, but this whole concept is somewhat new. Our community is known to aggressively tackle 90% of new things by not liking them right away (and sometimes vehemently opposing them), but after development or it's actually gotten to the point the administration has intended it to, enjoys it profusely.
    image
    Feelings, sensations that you thought were dead. No squealin' remember, that it's all in your head.
    AshmerIshinEmelle[Deleted User]Rivas
  • @alderic that's completely wrong. That was the old ideals of Sabelism that are being done away with. What's being kept is the ideals of coming together and worshiping/uniting all the spirit gods.
    @Jensen What specifically would be wrong about it? Vamps have been overpowered for years. The shadow organizations have obviously been overpowered hince their immense popularity. What's wrong with the Spirit orgs now is that fact. No one even wants to try because they know they will just lose.
    HavenRivasErzsebet
  • I mean just look at the turnouts at lesser leylines... shadow always has greater numbers, unless they just aren't in the game
  • MoireanMoirean Chairmander Portland
    It seems to me like pushing Age of Dawn onto every lifer would only worsen the number disparities. Not every member of Enorian and especially Duiran is into the "light". Some just don't like vampires. Some aim to be morally good. Some just politically dislike Spines or BL. Some just like the architecture. Etc.
    AshmerEmelle
  • @Jensen‌
    1) You just like the power where it is and do not want it to change
    2) Vamps still OP... You go up against Ashmer and see who wins
    3) What strengths? It's so weak no one wants to even join. The newbs we get 90% of the time end up going to shadow just cause they are better. End of story. Don't even get me started on the devoted 'spirit orgs' that have like a total of 4 combatants.
    4) Power balance shifts? Pretty sure the power balance has been in shadow since I started playing over 10 rl years ago.
    5) No I don't want an instant win. I do however want a game that's not 'if you want to kick butt and actually be good, go shadow'
    JensenArbreDraimanAldricIshinAshmerRiluoZsadistHavenLimErzsebetLait
  • oh and also, 'seems' unfair? Do you want to join the light? I'm betting no because you wouldn't be as powerful
    ArbreJensenIshinHavenErzsebetLait
  • Just a new paladin's opinion, but I chose to play Rina mostly because I wanted to play a good guy in a world hopelessly overrun by evil. That's pretty damn cool, in my opinion. Thematically, I would be fairly disappointed if that changed 180 degrees.

    I'm still not quite one foot in the combat side of the game yet, but I don't think which side is mechanically winning should have much to do with the theme and the "Age of Dawn" things (which also seems pretty cool to me) and it also doesn't make much sense to me that such a major thematic change would happen when mechanically the dark side is winning, too.
    SarkisMoireanJensenPlatoAldricIshinEmelleAreka
  • JensenJensen Corruption's Butcher
    I was light till age 200 Plato. Held sentinel, luminary, Daru, bahkatu, and Syssin class.
    Helped win the last war we had for Duiran
    I couldn't beat Ashmer even if he sat down for me to kill him
    You're inability to see weaknesses in other classes does not mean they aren't there
    You've put blinders up to the eb and flow of this game. You're taking it way to personally and not looking at the game with unbiased eyes.
    image
    MoireanArbreIshin
  • So, having been involved a little with this (like making the pages accessible in the vulgate) and just being really interested in the history of Enorian and stuff...

    Sabelism is a move forward. Why, I hear some of you ask?

    Because it offers freedom, like Aldric said. Admittedly, in the very early days of the game, a lot of stuff was nebulous about the whole good/evil, right/wrong dichotomy, but over the years, the city has definitely settled into a boring and frankly inflexible, unattractive, stagnate set of ideals that has restricted players to be in essence, either "Light" or "get out". There's no wiggle room allowed for the players, as endless, silly, trite moralizing led to increasingly extremist perspectives that make sense only slightly, and restrict the average player to the margins of being a mindless zealot or looked down upon for not being a holier-than-thou headcase.

    This is a toxic environment for many people and hurts the city. It burns people out, it leaves them feeling cold about participating with the city and limits more moderate individuals to quietly watching from the sidelines as the hardcore, "RARGH BURN ALL FOR THE FURY OF RIGHTEOUSNESS IS THE FIRE OF BLAH BLAH", run around making everyone else miserable.

    It's not declaring that the Age of Dawn has come, merely that it is coming, as long as the Light and its allies are able to be flexible and unified. The Light is no longer defined by a single perspective (i.e. the holdovers of Rahn) and permits a more diverse, inclusive, interesting range of views, that is under the umbrella of a centralized religious concept, Sabelism. And yes, the "ism" was tacked on to the Illumine word for "faith". This makes it easier for the non-Illumine speakers to have a name for this concept without calling it "THE GRAND UNITED RELIGION OF LIGHT AND SPIRIT ALIGNED GODS". By comparison, Sabelism rolls off the tongue, I think.

    Sabelism includes practically all of the Life and Light aligned deities and forms a pantheon that accepts all their worship without pointing at a particular group and saying their inherently more sinful or bad than the other. Or at least, not those who are fellow practitioners of The Grand United Religion of Light and Spirit-aligned Gods. It gives the city Cardinal a job. I.E. Pope of this new (old) religion. It even has a place for those who like to PK in the name of the Light. (Crusades!) One of the main purposes of Sabaelism, however, is that it permits the City of Enorian itself to separate itself somewhat from the religion.

    The religion is for those who want a religious RP and want to be RAAWR for the Light or even just "Go Light! Whee!". The city is for those who want to experience a freedom to just be alive and enjoy the multi-cultural melting pot of refugees, outcasts, and survivors of Darkness, Corruption and just general butt-hattery that those nasty evil people in Bloodloch and Spinesreach get up to. Enorian can then include the anti-theists, the oddballs, and even a few hedonists, because Sabelism offers a directed outlet for the Lighters, and the city itself is more welcoming to Lifers who don't feel at home snuggling trees and wearing loincloths (Duiran isn't a bad place, I just pick on you guys because it's fun). And for the Duiranites who want to, they can theoretically follow Sabelism without feeling bad because they're betraying their guild or city either. It lets the Lifer side of things have a bit more flexibility and that's always a good thing.

    I know it may be a bit of a blow for the Auresian's especially, because your language got co-opted (retconned) into being the language of an earlier era. But it also makes a lot more sense from a story/background fluff angle and doesn't make it any less holy or important. If anything, it's the liturgical language for a whole religion. Like Latin and Latin is awesome. As for the orgy and excess, I refer you to what Sarkis wrote in reference to the letters and the philosophy of the early city of Enorian. I didn't spend all that time transcribing the pages and providing analysis just for people to ignore. Though, if you want the Cliff's notes edition, I'm pretty sure I can provide that for the curious and the TL;DR crowd.
    PlatoMoireanKerrynAldricEmelleArekaMelanthaRivas
  • @Jensen and you are where now? And why?
  • JensenJensen Corruption's Butcher
    Spinesreach and I'm there for the RP
    image
    Riluo
  • Please make sure to watch the tone of discussion here. Keep it friendly, folks!

    image
    KerrynIshinAshmerObyn[Deleted User]
  • ArbreArbre Arbrelina Jolie Braavos
    I'm a lighter now and I agree with them, @Plato. Just because they're in the dark side, it's not because it's the best PK side - it's where RP took them. There's an ebb and flow. There was a point in time everyone tends to refer to as the Sibatti era where Duiran was the place to be and we annihilated everyone else. Now it's Spinesreach's time. As for @Ashmer, someone has to be the top combatant, now it's him. We (the lighters) have a lot of negatives in our playerbase itself that helps defeat our cause altogether, though I do see things beginning to improve a bit.

    Basically, it's the Midnight Age. The darkies are supposed to be winning. That doesn't mean their classes are better (because they're not), they're just the main draw to the game. You want to change that? Change your org, don't ask for admin handouts. @Sibatti and co proved that that was possible once already.
    JensenPlatoFaerahAldricIshinEmelleRiluo
  • JensenJensen Corruption's Butcher
    That lasted through Kiyotans term too, what a fun time to be a Sentinel
    image
    IshinKiyotan
  • AishiaAishia Queen Bee
    Whoah when did @Ashmer become Americas next top combatant!?
    AshmerEmelle
  • Arbre said:

    I'm a lighter now and I agree with them, @Plato. Just because they're in the dark side, it's not because it's the best PK side - it's where RP took them. There's an ebb and flow. There was a point in time everyone tends to refer to as the Sibatti era where Duiran was the place to be and we annihilated everyone else. Now it's Spinesreach's time. As for @Ashmer, someone has to be the top combatant, now it's him. We (the lighters) have a lot of negatives in our playerbase itself that helps defeat our cause altogether, though I do see things beginning to improve a bit.

    Basically, it's the Midnight Age. The darkies are supposed to be winning. That doesn't mean their classes are better (because they're not), they're just the main draw to the game. You want to change that? Change your org, don't ask for admin handouts. @Sibatti and co proved that that was possible once already.

    I didn't 'ask' for a single thing. I'm just stating my opinion. You guys say I take it too personally... well I say you don't take it personally enough. If I put anything other than 100% into something then I might as well not be putting in anything at all. I just thought it would be fun and an attention drawer to Achaea and Aetolia if they swapped roles. Achaea last I heard was the Aetolian opposite. So its not like its that big of a jump that it can be done and nothing would really be broken, RP or otherwise. And when is it Enorian's time? Also last I checked people are more involved in loch than they are in Spines. Enorian I wouldn't be surprised if no one logged onto their Enorian character at all for awhile. Because their are so few members as it is. When was the last time luminaries got a revamp? Because from what I hear shadow has another re-vamp comin to it
  • JensenJensen Corruption's Butcher
    Spinesreach beat out Bloodloch in a large tiered tournament largely because of an incentivized reward structure for pvp participation from management and from a lot of effort in part of its citizens. To my knowledge this has never been the case before
    image
    IshinMoirean
  • AishiaAishia Queen Bee
    I have a hard time understanding what this is besides "make lifers be winning please." But I kinda think DARKTOLIA is a good theme. I think with the Albedos stuff slowly growing into something that'll be providing new plot eventually anyways.
    IshinRivas
  • Boy oh boy.

    Plato, you say you've been playing for 10 years, but have you been paying attention for much of that? Just as was mentioned, there was an era where Duiran absolutely destroyed anybody who got in their way. I've only been playing a couple years less than you, but even I can see that there's a sort of balance that seems to flip this way and that between the sides and numbers.

    The class disparity is almost fundamentally nonexistent in terms of power. The drastic difference in fighters from each side may make it appear as such, but the reality simply is that obviously more classes are going to be represented amongst more fighters.

    Back to the city aspect, one of the biggest things is charisma. Moirean's an example of somebody with charisma who keeps activity pumping in a city, doles an incentive out for just about everything, and puts the power in the players' hands to have fun. This leads to more people wanting to be part of the organization because hey, soandso seems to be having fun there, I want to have fun too! It's a ripple effect.

    The Sibatti era in Duiran was also wildly successful because, here's the kicker, she did the same thing. I'm not trying to say that there aren't any great leaders on the lifer side, but it's hard to compare the current leaders to those who've excelled so well in the past in terms of charisma and drive. If Enorian got a group of motivated, excited folks to change up things, study what the city has the most fun doing, and go forth from there, we'd see success work its way from the top down.

    Unfortunately, as it stands now, a chunk of Enorian's population is chomping at the bit to change things up and make things more fun, but a larger portion is quite content to keep things exactly the way they are.
    image
    Feelings, sensations that you thought were dead. No squealin' remember, that it's all in your head.
    ArbreJensenIshinMoireanEmelleSetne
Sign In or Register to comment.