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Immersion
Trigru
the Bumberton's Delight
This discussion was created from comments split from: Here, Have Some Credits.
This was spawned from the original discussion, and addresses this portion of @Ambivalence's post:
This was spawned from the original discussion, and addresses this portion of @Ambivalence's post:
Ambivalence said:I don't want to draw this out.
Shamefully, I have a bad habit of counting chickens, and was so caught up in my expectations based on past experiences, that I didn't take the time to assess just how drastically the times, as well as my expectations, have changed. After one too many drops of the word "Cool" in guildchat, hours of thinly veiled OOC conversation and incomplete sentences passing for roleplay, and a player with a fedora "tipped rakishly over one eye," I've learned the hard way that Aetolia just isn't going to be the particularly breed of immersive experience I've been holding out for.
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I hope you find a happy RP niche.
"The smell of dusty fur, sweet smoke, waiting and patience, a thing that time cannot kill. The moth that candles won't burn."
Don't have to be looking for flaws to have some things be disgruntling, and at times there's only so much you can avoid the things that you don't find enjoyment or immersion in.
I don't think it warrants a jab or an attack though, with someone choosing to check out and find something that better aligns with their preferences.
Anyways, Aetolia is listed as gothic fantasy, but it kinda has developed into its own genre, and if you're looking for straight up fantasy, it may not fit in for you. That's unfortunate, I've tried to look for you in game to RP with some. Sorry it didn't work out.
Also, cut yourself out of clans. Most are OOC, and darkie side in particular has what seems like a ton of them. Which is cool, that half of the game is generally funner and more friendly to people. But if you want total immersion, you gotta remove that stuff. Like others have said, Aetolia dort of has it'd own environment. If you like the grunge dark Gothic theme you're gonna have to ignore some things. I suspect the same goes for any specific angle you're looking for.
I mean, I dunno. I don't see anything wrong with using "cool" in guild chat (the word is pretty much mainstream and not even really slang anymore) or making a tongue-in-cheek meta reference here and that. I find that more engaging and fun than "Darkest tidings, thou evil brethren" and heavily critical RP. I may be a bit bitter here, I've tried RPIs and people were so focused on staying in role and being "correct" in their RP that it was impossible to get help and figure out basic stuff - I tend not to police new people or ban certain words or anything like that, but to encourage them to slowly create a role over time. It's not super immersive all the time but I think it's more welcoming and encouraging. I remember when I first started playing Aetolia, I explored Xoral and just cracked up over the men yelling at me for peeking at them sunbathing. I pasted one of the says into CT to share, because I was so derpily excited by it... Within seconds I got like 3 messages about how people had "de-esteemed" me for bad RP, because I pasted the "man says" part. It felt so petty and discouraging and I nearly quit right then.
Aetolia has more RP than other IREs, but it's not an RPI. OOC communication via clans and webs, focus on mechanics and PK, bashing, these all play a part as well. We also have new players or players who haven't ever RPd at all and are learning. I don't think you're going to find a RPI-level immersion in any IRE game, because storylines are only half the gameplay, versus RPIs where they are the main focus. Maybe try hitting @Toz up - I know he's working on building a new RPI that sounds promising.
If you want to have a discussion of that, there is certainly room for that in another thread, but this isn't it, and neither is it necessary to knock down Ambiv's stance or preferences.
Edit: Since we've been moved to a thread - I find fedoras jarring. I can also be a bit of a purist. Fedoras may have been a thing in the 1800s, except in Aetolia that's not the context they're being worn in. They're being worn with pinstriped suits ala Frank Sinatra Vegas, which is NOT within the same time frame or -cultural/societal- frame.
While it may seem silly, the game loses some of its shine for me with things like that. Some of the disjointed aspects of the game's culture, technology, styling, etc, further adds to this - it begins to feel like Lusternia (which has some really great moments, then in others feels like a cut and spliced cartoon reel from across a decade's worth of different shows and companies - which while could be OK if that is the context and intent of the game itself, is NOT what at least Aetolia advertises and claims to be).
I wish we had more consistency and more depth. I want to play in a world that feels believable within its boundaries and is a living breathing thing.
On top of that the varied setting also means varied characters. Maybe I'm just overestimating based on my first impression but it seems like it very possible to have a playerbase of 100,000 or something and still have everyone with a decidedly unique personality within a few lines of dialogue if it would even take that much. I've already seen evidence of attire and speech styles from real world centuries' worth of eras and players do seem to try and capitalize on that. That's just from browsing shops while listening to CT. It's quite refreshing to jump into a game that advertises "HEY! WE HAVE PLAYABLE VAMPIRES!" and find that the playerbase isn't just a bunch of Draculas and Van Helsings.
Two cents from a newbie is all.
Indeed at 343 years old Riluo has went from rubbing sticks together to wielding immense artifacts and gauntlets that harness raw power from the fabric of reality. So putting that into perspective how could we think that a world would stay stagnant in its originally setting (18th century). It would be downright ludicrous given that it has been well over 350 years. Therefore with this in mind it would be safe to say we are now more in the age of gas lamps and early steam technology (19th century).
Of course people will disagree with this and I can respect that, but what can not be argued is the world has changed and that is a sign of a healthy community that has evolved with the game, and visa versa.
--sorry done on the sly via a phone so excuse the errors--
Abhorash says, "Ve'kahi has proved that even bastards can earn their place."
I think that's a trend I dislike the most within Aetolia, how everything always gets simplified. I loved the struggle to work things out, how you needed to work really hard to gain levels, how you needed to ask questions and have lessons to learn about things more rather than being pointed towards a help file. There's less of that now, because... I don't know, maybe new players really do expect being able to come in an "win" the game from the start now.
As for words and phrases, some things will be jarring to hear in an IC setting, but if it is a new player involved, you can just drop it for a bit and gently guide and perhaps suggest alternatives without being offensive. I don't hesitate sending an OOC tell to a newbie with suggestions. If it's an old player ruining immersion on an IC channel, they should be able to handle a tell like that without ragequitting. If they can't, they need to grow up.
If you RP with someone or encountere someone somewhere in the game, who doesn't share your views when it comes to immersion, you can try to ignore those bits where you disagree to keep up with the RP or choose not to interact with that person unless it's necessary.
We also know that not all people playing this game get involved in RP. It might be important to make that known, so the game doesn't lose players over lack of immersion. There have been quite a few suggestions made here on the forums lately to help make it easier to find said immersion and experience. An Active RPer list, a list for game-specific word references just to name two.
I'm really sorry to see @Ambivalence go. I hope you'll give the game another chance. It really does deserve it. We all love it in our own way for different reasons.
My two cents.
Technically, I reckon it's as appropriate as whatever or whoever the authority is says it is. However, I find that a distinct difference of present RL culture from IC culture is necessary for immersion (unless the two are deliberately one in the same); without that distinction, the world is about as enthralling as a Yahoo chatroom with a background description .
I play RP-oriented games for the narrative and theme, rather than to socialize, as I feel that the latter can be done in a variety of other outlets that facilitate it and the mechanical aspects of the game better than an MUD ever could. That's an opinion.
Unfortunately, I don't have the gross time for an RPI, and those games tend lack population even at peak times.
And this is not to bash down on any opinions or anything, just my personal opinion that I wish to reflect... If you want dark fantasy narrative and theme, but don't want to socialize, I am sure there are perfectly good books to read.
What's more, books are rarely interactive, and don't lend themselves to the level of creative license, collaboration, and engagement you can find in the right MUD. So, that point seems moot.
Experience Gained: 47720 (Special) [total: 2933660]
Needed for LVL: 122.00775356245
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I certainly go through my own share of frustration at Aetolia's inability to be everything I want out of a collaborative writing experience, but even then, I still manage to have really immersive and satisfying moments that keep me around. I haven't managed to replicate that in any other MU*, and believe me, I've tried.
"The smell of dusty fur, sweet smoke, waiting and patience, a thing that time cannot kill. The moth that candles won't burn."
"The smell of dusty fur, sweet smoke, waiting and patience, a thing that time cannot kill. The moth that candles won't burn."
Edit:
Well, to be more on point and not just an asshole, my immersion mostly ended when I started leading orgs and taking leadership positions. Like @moirean said, there's just a meta level to that and I don't really think that it's avoidable.
And god forbid I should have to join a web to lead people in pvp. Lol.
I remember, involve me and I
learn.
-Benjamin Franklin
I'm not really sure where the line should be drawn. It's important to remember that Aetolia wasn't created as "the RP IRE" - that wasn't the intention, but rather a sub-culture that's developed among a large (but not complete) number of the players. People who don't RP or who only RP every now and then or do rather light RP aren't breaking the rules or going against the original spirit of the game, and a good number of them started playing before the RP scene became so developed here.
I would end up a Magikarp though, and just splash. It would never be effective.
REAL MOMENT: (Brought to you by Aarbrok)
In the end of things, little flavor things done by a character may be slightly bothersome, but what we need to realize is the impact things like a sand/ice chair, some gears tossed into things, and various other little quirks that players may toss in that -do not- ultimately harm the overall play environment are hardly a detriment. When it boils down to the concentrated mass that is "Aetolia" this is a game we come to to 'escape reality' for various reasons and is a happy funtime place we need to remind ourselves we are coming to to play our characters and not others.
I will admit things like the sand chair have irritated me at some juncture when I want to take the time out of my life to stress over it and put real life science and plausibility into how something like that would work. At the end though, who does that harm, YOU. It is times like these where I say, and have even been told in other venues to take a step back and consider how maybe something as silly as a chair might make that person happy, and how it really harms you, if it actually even does.
I know I might get some grump for this but I really don't care, its just my perspective. Consider your perspective, and think am I making more harm than good.
Heres a cute kitten