Mirror classes

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  • edited January 2021
    Tiur said:

    I think that the ease of sidehopping is better treated as a separate exercise and topic than mirror classes. Totally open to having a thread discussing it, maybe you can convince us. Not here though!

    That said, no one is forcing you to switch sides. Currently, if you tether hop, you can expect your class artifacts to not work on a new class. I do not see a reason that should change just because the class you are moving to is, code wise, a mirror of another. Save for cases we already allow artifacts to change over, like weapon runes, eq speed, mp regen, etc.

    Well honestly @Tiur I get your point but it works slightly different. Visualize Aetolia as a pie divided into 16 slices. Each slice represents one class. Every class/slice comes with unique content. It an investment to fully own each slice of content. Players are buying slices for (1). The type of content and (2). the uniqueness of this content. When mirror classes are introduced each slice will be cut in half. And now players will own half of the same "type of content" they once did. New slices of content are not being produced here but rather full slices are being cut in half. The players tether has nothing to do with the slicing of the piece in half.

    Right now I own Zealot content, there's no other class in aetolia like Zealot and I chose to own it because I enjoy the content. If its content is going to be duplicated I should be able to choose what tether I want that type of content to be placed. If Aetolia were to bake more pies then that's new content to sell. I.e. Mining, farming, fishing, gaming, etc. But when Aetolia cuts current slices of pie in half, the least you can do is provide players with the ONE TIME option of what tether they'd like that content to exist. I understand that currently, you have to switch tethers anyways to have access to certain content, but if that content were already available and accessible under your current tether would that player have even gone through the process of jumping tethers? Personally, I don't care for the introduction of mirror classes, but if mirror classes are to be introduced, it should not be at the players expense.

    If slices are being cut in half let me pick which side of the slice I'd like to keep.
  • While I get where you are coming from... the analogy is wrong. Your slice isn't being cut in half. It's being duplicated.
    LinIesidTetchtaNaosGavramelDemarcusIllikaal
  • Mirror classes are obviously a non-trivial undertaking. So, it's more like they're baking a whole new pie. Sure, they're using mostly the same recipe as the original, but the new pie has some different spices. None of that is to say accommodations for mirrored class owners wanting to pickup the mirror class couldn't/shouldn't be made, just that mirror classes aren't free to create. Expecting them to be free to pickup just because might be a bit of a stretch.

    As it stands, you do have a discount for switching to the mirror class: forget the mirrored class and trade-in its artifacts. 50%/66% (rarely 75% or 100% certain artifacts) off has been "fair" enough until now. Free seems unprecedented and unfair to the act of creation taken by the Pools. However, I'd love it if they bumped down the lesson loss for mirrored classes to 33% or 25% for a week or two after the mirror class comes out. Or just all classes forever. 50% loss is pretty steep, really.
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  • TetchtaTetchta The Innocent
    edited January 2021
    Tiur basically said to not argue about it here, but, man losing 50% of your character value is actually insane in a game about competing ideologies. It makes it practically impossible for either side to make a measurable impact and acting like it's ever been fair is deeply silly. And it's not a discount, it's a penalty ROFL.

  • My gut impression is that a tether switch token artifact would be the best idea, assuming it can be coded. Thinking about classes as a mechanic in general, not specifically in terms of side-hopping, trading lessons and class artifacts to pick up a new class is the same fundamental principle as selling a game you're not going to play anymore to get store credit for a game you do want. The basic idea is something I'm familiar with, so it's not that hard to accept.

    Switching from a class to its mirror would be a very different dynamic. You're not trading something you're not going to use to buy something new, you're trading it in to buy what you already have. It's going to generate a lot of Feels Bad. I think the current system is going to have to be adjusted to account for that as mirror classes are released.
    TetchtaHaven
  • Seurimas said:

    Mirror classes are obviously a non-trivial undertaking. So, it's more like they're baking a whole new pie. Sure, they're using mostly the same recipe as the original, but the new pie has some different spices. None of that is to say accommodations for mirrored class owners wanting to pickup the mirror class couldn't/shouldn't be made, just that mirror classes aren't free to create. Expecting them to be free to pickup just because might be a bit of a stretch.

    As it stands, you do have a discount for switching to the mirror class: forget the mirrored class and trade-in its artifacts. 50%/66% (rarely 75% or 100% certain artifacts) off has been "fair" enough until now. Free seems unprecedented and unfair to the act of creation taken by the Pools. However, I'd love it if they bumped down the lesson loss for mirrored classes to 33% or 25% for a week or two after the mirror class comes out. Or just all classes forever. 50% loss is pretty steep, really.

    The problem here is that people who buy more should not be punished more. If you own less its not much of a problem. The more you own the more you're punished by not being able to cross over your investments. I don't think the intention of Iron Realms is to punish big buyers.
    TetchtaSibatti
  • TetchtaTetchta The Innocent
    Legyn said:


    Switching from a class to its mirror would be a very different dynamic. You're not trading something you're not going to use to buy something new, you're trading it in to buy what you already have. It's going to generate a lot of Feels Bad. I think the current system is going to have to be adjusted to account for that as mirror classes are released.

    Precisely this. Like we can't pretend we don't know that mirror classes are literally the exact same class and then be like "well I'll just eat the cost." We know they're the same class. Because we have been told that they are. It's not like we can forget that information. I don't even mind a penalty of SOME kind, but it being a percentage that's more or less 60% of whatever you've sunk into the game already is incredibly steep and only gets worse the more you buy. As @Jhin pointed out, it feels like a penalty for supporting the game.

    Jhin
  • edited January 2021
    IRE's gotta make money and mirror classes are as much a business venture for them as it is supplying an in demand feature to us.

    The point of mirror classes, I would think, is partially to ensure that you don't feel you need to sidehop to get access to that cool class you want to play but don't wanna give up your RP for.

    Wanting to change your RP is a completely different issue, as Tiur said.

    PS. Spoilers? Please? Or maybe a new ETA? Newbie channel leak said End of Month, but we're on 1/29/21 and don't expect you to hold to that with so much in the air.
    Tetchta
  • BraxBrax Immortal
    Legyn said:


    Switching from a class to its mirror would be a very different dynamic. You're not trading something you're not going to use to buy something new, you're trading it in to buy what you already have. It's going to generate a lot of Feels Bad. I think the current system is going to have to be adjusted to account for that as mirror classes are released.

    I just wanted to chime in here to this point.

    Let's look at something like League of Legends for an example.

    Champ 1 has:
    - Damage in a line attack
    - Crowd control that roots
    - Some form of escape skill
    - Ultimate that does a ton of damage

    New champion is released. New ability FX, new model, new animations, new lore, new promotion for it, new skins, all of it.

    Champ 2 has:
    - Damage in a line attack
    - Crowd control that roots
    - Some form of escape skill
    - Ultimate that does a ton of damage

    Does that make them less of a new champion?

    You buy the new champion because you love their theme, aesthetic, and lore - even if the skeleton is the same. The same principle applies to mirror classes.

    You're not going to be trading in Archivist to play Archivist-But-With-White-Robes-Instead, you're trading in Archivist to play Botanist, or Jester, or Treant, or something else different.

    Note: Those are not hints, they are entirely made up.

    The only difference in sidehopping from Ascendril -> Archivist or Ascendril -> mirror Ascendril is that you'll already have a familiarity with the core strategy and offerings of the class if you choose mirror Ascendril instead; everything else is different. The class is different, the aesthetic is different, the roleplay is different, the lore is different, all of it.
    JhinHavenTetchtaNaosIesidMazzionRhine
  • Iesid said:

    IRE's gotta make money and mirror classes are as much a business venture for them as it is supplying an in demand feature to us.

    The point of mirror classes, I would think, is partially to ensure that you don't feel you need to sidehop to get access to that cool class you want to play but don't wanna give up your RP for.

    Wanting to change your RP is a completely different issue, as Tiur said.

    PS. Spoilers? Please? Or maybe a new ETA? Newbie channel leak said End of Month, but we're on 1/29/21 and don't expect you to hold to that with so much in the air.

    While I agree to a portion of what you shared @Iesid. I think there's a problem not clearly being addressed as it relates to mirror classes. I feel lines are being blurred between the interest of RP and the interest of combat.

    From a combat perspective, there's a competitive advantage and disadvantage to having and not having classes. Each tether has their unique strengths in combat. As a player, I'm interested in figuring out the unique styles of different types of combat. As a player I've had to sacrifice access to different styles of combat by trying new styles of combat (in a different tether). If you take away that sacrifice then I should be allowed to select what tether I want my investments to be shifted to. I didn't play Zealot because of the Illuminai/Enorian RP. I played Zealot because I could set someone ablaze and prevent them from curing it by beating their torso to a pulp. That combat mechanic interests me and created the desire for me to spend money on mastering that system of combat.

    When we think about mirror classes we shouldn't only think of it as an RP tool, but also think of it as duplicating systems of combat. There is no good reason to make me pay twice for the same exact system of combat. I'm not paying for the lore of a class, I'm paying for the system of combat. I should not be punished as a player who has invest in multiple systems of combat. The rules today I can't use every system of combat at once, but when the rules allow me to use every system of combat at once, I should not have to pay twice for something I previously owned.

    Mirror classes is greater than RP, it's also about investing in combat systems.

    Think about it, are most artifacts sold for RP or combat?
  • Also @Brax I disagree. Every new champion released in League has a different play style. Yes, the "afflictions" are the same, but the play style is unique to each champion. No two champions use the same "system". For instance Leona and Rell are very similar. But you play with each of these champions different. A mirror class is similar to Rell having the exact same abilities as Leona, just riding a horse. No two champions in League have the exact same mechanics. A mirror class will have the exact same mechanics.
  • PhoeneciaPhoenecia The Merchant of Esterport Somewhere in Attica
    There has ALWAYS been a huge cost to sidehopping long before mirror classes were even considered. You still lost lessons for forgetting tether-specific classes. You still lost credits for trading in artifacts that were no longer useful to the classes you had available to you. Whatever investment you had was lost the minute you sidehopped.

    That was always the case, and after mirror classes, that'll still be the case.

    If anything, there'd be fewer reasons to sidehop except for RP since every class will be available to both sides of the game.

    If you've made the conscious decision to jump ship to the other side before mirror classes, you did it knowing you'd be taking losses. It's not a decision made lightly, and more than a few people have gone back and forth between tethers several times.

    Yes, the mirror class is going to be mechanically identical to the original. Does it suck that your old class artifacts won't work with the mirrored class on your new tether? Of course it does. But you swapped sides knowing there'd be a penalty.

    People love to talk about Aetolia being an RP game, but RP also has consequences, and a lot of times those consequences impact your investment. But you're also making decisions based on your investment too. Sunk a lot of gold and credits into your character, but suddenly don't like all the people around you? Or maybe RP circumstances have led things to a point where a sidehop might make sense.

    If being where you are is such a pain, you're either going to sidehop anyway and eat the cost or roll an alt. If the investment loss is too much for you to handle, then maybe you'll reconsider your options or just suck it up and try to deal with the situation you've got.
    TetchtaSeurimasLin
  • edited January 2021
    Brax said:

    You buy the new champion because you love their theme, aesthetic, and lore - even if the skeleton is the same. The same principle applies to mirror classes.

    Oh, believe me, I know the appeal of spending money on aesthetic. I bought multiple Magic the Gathering cards, including an entire deck, twice because I wanted to have them in foil. I can definitely imagine a point where I'd forget a class and pick it up again with a different theme, but that is a very ambitious thing to suggest in practice.

  • TetchtaTetchta The Innocent
    edited January 2021
    Phoenecia said:

    There has ALWAYS been a huge cost to sidehopping...

    That was always the case, and after mirror classes, that'll still be the case.

    If anything, there'd be fewer reasons to sidehop except for RP since every class will be available to both sides of the game.

    If you've made the conscious decision to jump ship to the other side before mirror classes, you did it knowing you'd be taking losses.

    People love to talk about Aetolia being an RP game, but RP also has consequences, and a lot of times those consequences impact your investment.

    "It's always been bad therefore it should remain bad as it gets worse and more painful" isn't the winning argument you think it is. And honestly, you're so backwards on that, it's staggering. There's going to be more reasons to sidehop more than ever with mirrors. People who feel held hostage by one side because of mechanics they really like are suddenly going to have way less reasons to justify stayin on a side they don't like.

    Let's not equate customer purchases with roleplay consequences when it comes to the blowback for switching sides. That's not the same, and you know it. Your character losing their prestige, support network, friends, and making new enemies is NOT equivalent to a paying customer losing 50-60% of things they paid for OOC. Like call me silly but I don't think that someone should have to eat $1000+ because their character's RP changed, nor should they feel forced to stagnate their RP just because they have a ton of money sunk into classes.

    Your justifications are bad. These are bad arguments to justify a model that is anti-consumer and, frankly, could be tweaked in a number of creative ways that enabled people not feeling that lose as severely while creating new avenues for profit. There's so many new forms of revenue that could be made to combat this that could easily overall become more profitable, even if the per-person cost goes slightly down. Has there always been a cost? Sure. But there didn't used to be multiclassing, there didn't used to be a cure for vampirism, and there used to be separate curing systems for Undead and Living Players. "It's always been bad" isn't an excuse. Like, yeah, it's always been "bad", but the actual, real-dollar cost has definitely gone up over time, and people are going to continue to feel it pinch more and more and more until RP has ground entirely to a halt when it comes to "Hey if you wanna be a good guy, Join Enorian" or "If you're sick of being controlled by dumb stuff, Join Bloodloch" routes. The more expensive sidehopping gets, the more rare it'll become.

  • edited January 2021
    And to be honest @Phoenecia as I respect your opinion in your purview. You have to understand there's a different perspective for combatants. You have everything to gain with mirror classes and nothing to lose. Imagine not being able to forge because you switched tethers. Or not being able to use your design tools because you switched tethers. And then all of a sudden you can use your design tools in any tether. But sorry you have to repurchase the shadow version of the design tools. What I'm trying to explain here is that their are different costs associated with RP vs Combat.

    And combat items are much more expensive than farming tools. While your opinion is valid in a certain category, you shouldn't be trying to refute a point that is outside of your interests.
    SibattiLin
  • TetchtaTetchta The Innocent
    edited January 2021
    I just did a quick calculation and I would lose at least $895.15 if I sidehopped right now (presuming I didn't miss anything). If I decided to hang onto my classes and artifacts, though (in case I wanted to sidehop again), that $895.15 becomes $1486.10. This essentially means I'd spend $0 on a sidehop if my RP tried to lead me there, as opposed to some sort of flat cost I could pay to minimize that loss.

    Asking people to just magically pretend mirror classes aren't the same class isn't gonna work and it's just going to highlight these losses more for folk.

    EDIT: this is ignoring styles, which I haven't spent...a TON on, but have definitely spent some credits on, one way or another. Not sure how much though.

  • Color me shocked, but I can't agree with @Jhin's explanation of the idea enough; you aren't baking a second pie(new content), you're dividing the original slices into two(recycling the basic premise of a class). I won't pretend that mirror classes aren't taking some level of work to accomplish, but it definitely feels as if the core functions of those new classes are already done. This isn't Keroc completely revamping Zealot, or (insert whoever actually did the legwork) completely reworking the Mage classes - the fundamentals are already there.

    10/10 make class specific artifacts transfer over to their mirror, to do anything else feels vaguely money-grabby.
    TetchtaHavenSibattiDrystinEhtias
  • HavenHaven World Burner Flight School
    If mirror classes are simple reskins then artifacts should work across tether:
    Luminary is a priest class fueled by faith magic and wields a mace/shield. They are accompanied by a guardian angel.
    MirrorLuminary is a priest class fueled by rage magic and wields a mace/shield. They are accompanied by an enslaved devil.


    But admin have said repeatedly that's not necessarily the direction they're going. They're expected to be more like:
    Luminary is a priest class fueled by faith magic and wields a mace/shield. They are accompanied by a guardian angel.
    MirrorLuminary is a gunslinger class with a series of gadgets and wields a castergun. (Turret that uses angel mechanics. Deployable gravity wells/disks that use Rites mechanics. Castergun works like mace/shield mechanics.)

    Either way, I believe they are a good change for the game. Changing the model away from "tether = class mechanics" opens up more options to every player and evens out the playing field. If the admin are careful and do not copy existing themes of established guilds/classes then I'd argue that, yes, players are receiving new content and would justify the cloning of artifacts.
    Legyn said:

    My gut impression is that a tether switch token artifact would be the best idea, assuming it can be coded. Thinking about classes as a mechanic in general, not specifically in terms of side-hopping, trading lessons and class artifacts to pick up a new class is the same fundamental principle as selling a game you're not going to play anymore to get store credit for a game you do want. The basic idea is something I'm familiar with, so it's not that hard to accept.

    Switching from a class to its mirror would be a very different dynamic. You're not trading something you're not going to use to buy something new, you're trading it in to buy what you already have. It's going to generate a lot of Feels Bad. I think the current system is going to have to be adjusted to account for that as mirror classes are released.

    A tether switch token for artifacts would be a fair implementation 1000%. Even better if current players get a free set of tether tokens when their mirror class is released. Anything less than that is a punishment to the players that have stuck around and invested in the game before the new changes. Which I believe is the heart of @Jhin's concerns. If the admin don't have plans to grandfather current players smoothly into mirror classes, then they should get right on that before they drop any mirror classes.

    That said... With the implementation of milestones and the upcoming implementation of mirror classes, it makes more sense for admin and players to take an 'account approach' to the game and encourage creating alts rather than side hopping and investing in just one character. I think one of the things the game should probably take a look at next is newbiedom and leveling as a whole but that's an entirely different can of worms.
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    Tetchta
  • edited January 2021
    I just keep thinking about how the beast claws work for five different classes. 
    TetchtaLin
  • HavenHaven World Burner Flight School
    @Tiur

    How extensive are the changes going to be? Are all mirror classes going to be using the same equipment as their counterpart?
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  • Aetolia's previous stance on artifacts working for more than one class was to actually let them where applicable. Things that effected Tekura effected Zealot and Monk, things that effected Illumination effected Zealot and Luminary, Devotion, Corpus, blood stuff for vamps, Telepathy, etc.
    Copperhead of the Third Spoke says to you, "Intelligence matrix in moniker Bulrok reveals above average results when compared alongside proximal presence."
  • edited January 2021
    Naos said:

    Color me shocked, but I can't agree with @Jhin's explanation of the idea enough; you aren't baking a second pie(new content), you're dividing the original slices into two(recycling the basic premise of a class). I won't pretend that mirror classes aren't taking some level of work to accomplish, but it definitely feels as if the core functions of those new classes are already done. This isn't Keroc completely revamping Zealot, or (insert whoever actually did the legwork) completely reworking the Mage classes - the fundamentals are already there.

    10/10 make class specific artifacts transfer over to their mirror, to do anything else feels vaguely money-grabby.

    As long as you agree with the same solution that's fine by me. And for the record, I never said no work is involved.
    NaosTetchta
  • TiurTiur Producer
    edited January 2021
    Mirror Templar would have to use the same weapons, as Templar's thing is 'alltheweapons'. But like.. MirrorCarni doesn't have to use a hammer if we give them something that fits all of the hammer's key points. Two handed, forged, stats in range x-y, blunt damage type, etc. It could even be a two handed crystal that summons magical rocks that smack people around, as long as the crystal is made by forging, has the same speed range as a hammer, and the effect is ultimately blunt damage. Frying pan using magical princess class with pet chameleons instead of hounds, even.

    At the very best, you guys are only convincing me that a one time cheaperthing should happen. New shiny RP opens on the other tether, I could see making it easier to move over to it. But long term, I don't really see why a class with similar code, but different RP, is a division of content and requires a discount to shift to. It's like claiming that adding another race that doesn't have new raceskills cheapens all the other races. Which I guess is maybe what you're saying? I just don't agree.

    E: I forgot to address timing. One is nearly done, the other needs a bit. We had a loooong talk and figured it's not fair to make one tether wait extra. So we're a few weeks behind. Once Mining is clear I'll have Raz back and it should be smoother scheduling, we've suffered for having him sidelined for so long. Also I hurt myself and it's limiting my computer time.
    DrystinBenedictoLegynSeurimasMaira
  • RijettaRijetta Nowhere Important
    edited January 2021
    What? Please clarify what you mean by the extra addition at the end of your post.
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    Tetchta
  • I want to be hopeful about all of this but the fact that a 'long talk' had to be had to realize that wouldn't be fair is incredibly unsettling.
    Copperhead of the Third Spoke says to you, "Intelligence matrix in moniker Bulrok reveals above average results when compared alongside proximal presence."
    Tetchta
  • edited January 2021
    Double post because editing is for cowards.

    Could you clear up some confusion, at least. 'Someone powerful' said over newbie that we could expect to see them by the end of the month, and now we're being told you're weeks behind, because one is nearly done, and the other needs some time. This is counter to what's been alluded to elsewhere by volunteers also, implying more than one is almost ready. Your rejection on the Erosion report also heavily implied that Carnifex is the first mirror for Spirit to get, and Shadow is in the dark on what theirs is going to be. (haha geddit cause shadow)

    Edit: Claims editing is for cowards. Edits his post anyways.

    Aetolia's track record for sticking to a schedule is pretty terrible. That's not a judgement thing, either. I don't think any less of any of you because of it, I honestly believe Voldemort cursed us like he did the Defense Against the Dark Arts position. I'm just being honest so I can get to the next suggestion.

    At this point, I don't think it would be a bad idea to give us some sort of break down of what's going on - coding challenges, writing challenges, lore challenges, etc. Spoilers be damned! Just give us a weekly update of progress, highlighting ups and downs, and keep us informed. It's easier to manage frustration with the delays, personally, like this, rather than having radio silence except for a few weird not spoilers, and then a big break of bad news.
    Copperhead of the Third Spoke says to you, "Intelligence matrix in moniker Bulrok reveals above average results when compared alongside proximal presence."
    AlmolTetchtaKxrachus
  • TiurTiur Producer
    I could likely give some updates as to what's happening! The second class is Raz's baby, and while messages are getting written and plans made, it needs his attention, or me to finish mine.

    I really thought we could do one by the 31st and another after that really quick, but it was pointed out to me that any mistakes or problems had really bad optics. We took a long talk, because we covered like... is missing a deadline worse than looking to favor one tether over another? Players are pretty understanding, but how many days does the understanding last? And we came to: They need to be released within the same week. The best understanding we could get would be the events: we don't want them to overlap, and that's something we can't change, so that's the best plan.

    We got some stuff pre-built for the events, unfortunately we did it in opposite order, so I still need to push things to builders for the nearly finished mirror. The class itself is getting there, I've put in all the bifurcations and a message splitter, so it's fiddly things like affliction masking left to do. Hunting down everywhere the affliction shows and making sure that the new one shows instead for the new class, then sitting down and thinking through to make sure I didn't miss any instances where it should overlap or not overlap.

    I also spent most of this week sleep deprived because my hand hurts so bad. I haven't gotten an ortho visit yet, because this is america and it takes a few weeks, so fun. Most likely I have carpal tunnel, or something is exacerbating a pinched nerve that I've always had. So I've been one handed coding, which takes some adaptation.Trial and error will teach me the correct amount of rest/work I can do so I can get back to normal. Taking yesterday off let me sleep a whole night! I'm sure you guys know what I mean, I don't think I've taken a whole day without typing since my honeymoon. (Basically I wake up around 2am with my left hand frozen in a claw because the tendons are inflamed. This is a problem I had as a kid when I broke my radius and ulna, and living in the middle of nowhere, had to kinda hold them together with a magazine and rubberbands for a while until I could get to a doctor, why it chose to skip the intervening 25 years, I have no clue) Not an attempt at pity! Everyone has problems that they have to adjust their life around so that they can work. That's actually why I typo so much and don't fix it! My pinky doesn't always work and I've kinda just given up on caring.

    One other slow down we've hit is that, frankly, some of the older messages in the game SUCK. It feels really weird to look at a boring AF instakill, then mirror it into something super neat and special. So I okayed fixing the old class a bit. It's not a big bump at all, but dang... I never realized how bad some of the old classes are :( That's likely a clue as to which one's being mirrored.

    I think that's it? I'm back to coding today, and the bossfight for Revenant will be super neat and I'm vibrating in excitement to get to it. I'll try to update more often with what we're doing!
    SeurimasIesidBulrokMazzionBenedictoRihrinZeheia
  • edited January 2021
    If you change Vivisects instakill message I s2g. You guys do not know true salt and rage. But you will. >:)

    But thanks for the updates!
    Copperhead of the Third Spoke says to you, "Intelligence matrix in moniker Bulrok reveals above average results when compared alongside proximal presence."
  • TiurTiur Producer
    Vivasect holds a special place in my heart too, no worries.
    DrystinIesidSeurimasLin
  • Tiur said:
    At the very best, you guys are only convincing me that a one time cheaperthing should happen. New shiny RP opens on the other tether, I could see making it easier to move over to it.
    Jhin says:
    @Tiur Just to clarify, am I hearing that a one-time, limited duration artifact and lesson transfer “token” of sorts will be made?
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