Mirror classes

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  • SaidennSaidenn Member Posts: 83 ✭✭✭
    So I had started to type up one thing and I looked at the skillsets again and the little snippets.

    A revenant, by definition, is literally a living dead. I wanted it, at first, to be related to Dhar, but a name that literally translates to being undead seems a bit of a stretch no matter how I try to slice it. I could see Chirography take the place of Tracking, but I do agree with @Rijetta that it could be templar/zealot/lumi, too.

    Wardens, in reading and looking at their skillset names, are so Duiran, unbelievably Duiran. Ancestry and Communion alone mark it as Duiran-y.

    I don't know though. I can parse out so many different threads. I'm super excited.
    Rijetta
  • IesidIesid Member Posts: 143 ✭✭✭
    There's only one guild with ancestor RP.

    I think.
  • ChurchChurch Member Posts: 91 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2020
    Are we just not going to talk about how weird the name Wardenship is? Almost as if it was specifically crafted for the earlier anti-spoiler.

    Can we please make this Warding or Guardianship or something instead? :(

    edit: Wardening, Protectoration
    SeurimasIesid
  • AlelaAlela Member Posts: 24
    Iesid said:

    There's only one guild with ancestor RP.

    I think.

    Nah, at least two. One in Duiran, the other in Spinesreach.
    (Web): Abhorash has joined your web.
    (Web): Abhorash says, "Nerds."
    (Web): Abhorash has left your web.

    Alela's Affirmations
  • AlelaAlela Member Posts: 24
    Oh wait, make that three. Two in Duiran. One in Spines.
    (Web): Abhorash has joined your web.
    (Web): Abhorash says, "Nerds."
    (Web): Abhorash has left your web.

    Alela's Affirmations
  • HavenHaven World Burner Flight SchoolMember Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Revenant for Spirit and Warden for Shadow confirmed!
    ¤ Si vis pacem, para bellum. ¤
    Someone powerful says, "We're going to have to delete you."
    havenbanner2
  • TiurTiur Producer Member, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 1,113 admin
    I am a big fan of Protectoration. Someone is going to need to stop me.
  • RijettaRijetta Nowhere ImportantMember Posts: 232 ✭✭✭✭
    Tiur said:

    I am a big fan of Protectoration.

    Second
    A low, sultry voice resounds within the depths of your mind, "I look forward to seeing your descent."
  • AmrynnAmrynn Member Posts: 8
    Church said:

    Are we just not going to talk about how weird the name Wardenship is? Almost as if it was specifically crafted for the earlier anti-spoiler.

    Can we please make this Warding or Guardianship or something instead? :(

    edit: Wardening, Protectoration

    Late but wardenship is a word though? It doesn't seem common but the definitions coming up include stuff like "preservation" or "the powers of a warden"
  • IesidIesid Member Posts: 143 ✭✭✭
    It is real, it's just a lame word. No offense to who selected it; it just feels like a placeholder! I am still happy for mirrors though, goofy words or not.

    You know, @Tiur ... we could help you come up with a better word if we knew what Wardenship entailed...  ;)
  • RijettaRijetta Nowhere ImportantMember Posts: 232 ✭✭✭✭
    Wardenship is good actually.
    A low, sultry voice resounds within the depths of your mind, "I look forward to seeing your descent."
    AmrynnMjoll
  • StineStine Member Posts: 210 ✭✭✭
    When mirrorclasses(tm) come out, will they be new entries on style scrolls or will having the base class unlocked grant the style for the mirrorclass as well?
    RijettaSekeres
  • IesidIesid Member Posts: 143 ✭✭✭
    Will artifacts be copied or will each artifact be made to apply to their mirror class too? I believe this was asked before, but wondering if the answer has been revisited since growing closer to the launch of a mirror.
    LinStineSekeresJhin
  • IesidIesid Member Posts: 143 ✭✭✭
    Any further update on the questions above?

    Maybe another juicy tidbit for us fiends? :(
  • RijettaRijetta Nowhere ImportantMember Posts: 232 ✭✭✭✭
    Wow so fex mirror is close huh. Nifty. What other mirror is close and shouldn't be nerfed
    A low, sultry voice resounds within the depths of your mind, "I look forward to seeing your descent."
    Benedicto
  • ZeheiaZeheia Member, Immortal Posts: 81 Immortal
    Rijetta said:

    Wow so fex mirror is close huh. Nifty. What other mirror is close and shouldn't be nerfed

    Several of them. ;)
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  • IesidIesid Member Posts: 143 ✭✭✭
    Rijetta said:
    Wow so fex mirror is close huh. Nifty. What other mirror is close and shouldn't be nerfed
    I would like to know what y'all are getting too! It only seems fair. Maybe Tiur will drop a hint with another report comment or something..
  • HavenHaven World Burner Flight SchoolMember Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm thinking Templar and Carnifex still.
    ¤ Si vis pacem, para bellum. ¤
    Someone powerful says, "We're going to have to delete you."
    havenbanner2
    Drystin
  • TetchtaTetchta Member Posts: 506 ✭✭✭✭
    if we get templars I will poop my pants
    Straightening into rigid, militant attention, A division of Bloodlochian soldiers squares its shoulders and crisply salutes you.
    Zeheia
  • JhinJhin Member Posts: 50
    Iesid said:
    Will artifacts be copied or will each artifact be made to apply to their mirror class too? I believe this was asked before, but wondering if the answer has been revisited since growing closer to the launch of a mirror.
    Very curious regarding this. Because I own artifacts from both tethers. #ClassesMirroredArtifactsToo
  • SafiyaSafiya Member Posts: 8
    Jhin said:


    Iesid said:

    Will artifacts be copied or will each artifact be made to apply to their mirror class too? I believe this was asked before, but wondering if the answer has been revisited since growing closer to the launch of a mirror.

    Very curious regarding this. Because I own artifacts from both tethers. #ClassesMirroredArtifactsToo

    Since IRE is for profit, I would assume they would make brand new artifacts for each new class. Especially since the new classes aren't going to be anything like their mirror (besides mechanics).
  • TiurTiur Producer Member, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 1,113 admin
    Most likely it will be new artifacts that do the same thing. I don't think there are really more than one or two artifacts meant to share functionality across classes anyway. We also don't want to encourage blurring the line between tethers.
    Lin
  • TetchtaTetchta Member Posts: 506 ✭✭✭✭
    The IRL monetary barriers to sidehopping are just getting worse lmao
    Straightening into rigid, militant attention, A division of Bloodlochian soldiers squares its shoulders and crisply salutes you.
  • TiurTiur Producer Member, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 1,113 admin
    More like "The cost of owning everything is more expensive when you add more content"
    Iesid
  • JhinJhin Member Posts: 50
    edited January 29
    Tiur said:

    More like "The cost of owning everything is more expensive when you add more content"

    Perhaps when mirror classes come out then, give the opportunity to for a one time tether switch of a duplicate artifact from the mirror'd class. For instance enhanced_greenfoot would never be useful for a shadow tethered individual. Perhaps during a limited time you can convert your artifacts to the desired tether.

    I feel this would be fair since I purchased artifacts based on playing that type of class. Now that the same type of class will be available to both tethers, any crossover should be able to be finalized.
    DrystinIesid
  • TetchtaTetchta Member Posts: 506 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 29
    Tiur said:

    More like "The cost of owning everything is more expensive when you add more content"

    I mean, I get this, but the penalty for RP is extremely high in Aetolia. Conservatively, if I were, to say, sidehop right now, I'd lose, minimum, $1000 in artifacts and lessons(much more if I decide to just keep them and not use them in the event that at some point I hop back). I don't even want to sidehop or anything, but given that Aet is an RP game, it'd be kinda nice if there were some way to cap the costs of switching sides due to RP. Either some sort of flat fee to convert class-specific arties or something. This isn't a new problem for Aetolia, but it seems like the sting is going to be stingier knowing that classes are mirrored, and there being more incentive for people RP-wise to switch sides.
    Straightening into rigid, militant attention, A division of Bloodlochian soldiers squares its shoulders and crisply salutes you.
    Aramaeus
  • JhinJhin Member Posts: 50
    edited January 29
    Tetchta said:

    Tiur said:

    More like "The cost of owning everything is more expensive when you add more content"

    I mean, I get this, but the penalty for RP is extremely high in Aetolia. Conservatively, if I were, to say, sidehop right now, I'd lose, minimum, $1000 in artifacts and lessons(much more if I decide to just keep them and not use them in the event that at some point I hop back). I don't even want to sidehop or anything, but given that Aet is an RP game, it'd be kinda nice if there were some way to cap the costs of switching sides due to RP. Either some sort of flat fee to convert class-specific arties or something. This isn't a new problem for Aetolia, but it seems like the sting is going to be stingier knowing that classes are mirrored, and there being more incentive for people RP-wise to switch sides.
    Agreed. And even if you currently own a class a different tether, you should be able to convert the class over ONE time to the tether of your choice. Especially since, from what I understand there's not going to be new guilds for these classes either.

    Honestly I'm more than happy to pay to buy artifacts on a brand new class. Like when wayfarer was launched etc. But copies of other classes. It's a bit different. I understand the business behind it, but... it's always great to take care of the early adopters, because that's good business too. Grandfather the current player base into being able to make a one time artifact transfer. The artifact has already been bought. It's different to pay for new content vs. copied/reworked content.
    Tetchta
  • TetchtaTetchta Member Posts: 506 ✭✭✭✭
    Jhin said:

    Tiur said:

    More like "The cost of owning everything is more expensive when you add more content"

    Perhaps when mirror classes come out then, give the opportunity to for a one time tether switch of a duplicate artifact from the mirror'd class. For instance enhanced_greenfoot would never be useful for a shadow tethered individual. Perhaps during a limited time you can convert your artifacts to the desired tether.
    I keep thinking about this, and the problems with sidehopping, and all the things associated with it, and mulling it over in my head, and I really think it's something the game could address somehow moving forward. With multiclassing, mirrors, and tether mechanics, the game has probably never been as compartmentalized as it is now, and the costs of RP have never been steeper. They've always been steep, for the whole runtime of the game, for sure, but the idea def seems more painful now.

    I understand that IRE is a business and exists to incentivize sales and make sales, but I don't think that has to come at the expense of making players feel victimized by the sunk cost fallacy (or that they have to choose between a rock and a hard place if their character RP pulls them in a specific new direction). Aetolia's main draw, at the end of the day, is character roleplay, and for many people this is going to involve things like redemption arcs, corruption arcs, etc, etc, etc. But no matter how much RP you see out of, like, @Haven, you're likely to never see him bite the bullet and go full villain because that would involve him having to literally flush monetary investments down the toilet.

    This probably would require its own thread and several accompanying emails and stuff to hammer out, but I think, with Aet being so story-driven (in theory), it would behoove the game to have a bespoke answer to these sorts of problems, things that still potentially earn money (and maybe more money in the longrun) by making things like sidehopping easier. A few things that come immediately to mind:
    • Class-Specific-Artifact-Conversion: this would allow you to basically, for some predetermined flat fee, convert something like a Praenomen bashing artifact into any of the opposite tether. 100 credits? Not sure, but this would take some of the sting off, especially for people with L3 Artifacts.
    • Sidehop Tokens: this is a REALLY halfbaked idea I came up with this morning, so it might be incredibly dumb, but some sort of combo package that makes sidehopping easier for a flat credit fee.
    • Restricted Lesson Discounts: I do think with milestones, the loss of lessons is less burdensome, but if you're saying goodbye to mutltiple tether classes, it can be rough to lose those lessons. Maybe some way to sell lessons at a discounted rate.
    A lot of things that hurt player morale about these things are merely framing devices. Would a 100 credit conversion fee be roughly equivalent to the tradein value for several artifacts? Sure! Are sidehop tokens still a Price of Admission? Absolutely. But I think framing things like class changes and sidehops as an opportunity to sell new things versus making up for lost things is kind of an important framing for people, and it gives people multiple options when it comes to dealing with character roleplay. Loss Aversion is a real problem, I think, and worth considering, especially as mirror classes begin to relax tether mechanical exclusivity.
    Straightening into rigid, militant attention, A division of Bloodlochian soldiers squares its shoulders and crisply salutes you.
  • TiurTiur Producer Member, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 1,113 admin
    I think that the ease of sidehopping is better treated as a separate exercise and topic than mirror classes. Totally open to having a thread discussing it, maybe you can convince us. Not here though!

    That said, no one is forcing you to switch sides. Currently, if you tether hop, you can expect your class artifacts to not work on a new class. I do not see a reason that should change just because the class you are moving to is, code wise, a mirror of another. Save for cases we already allow artifacts to change over, like weapon runes, eq speed, mp regen, etc.
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