Announce post #3152: Classlead Changes

AutoposterAutoposter BotMember, Bot Posts: 356 ✭✭✭✭
12/18/2020 at 20:47
Tiur, the Gnosis
Everyone
Classlead Changes

In preparation for the next Classleads, here are some changes you'll want to keep in mind!

1 report per person. This is going to cause salt, I know. But being as this is the first round I'm holding, I want only what people really care about to be what gets attention. I realize some of you will ask a friend to submit for you, but that's your friend's decision, and maybe it'll encourage us all to make more friends.

I'll be making them Anonymous. People letting their personal disagreements bleed into Classleads frustrates me to no end.

After this round we'll readdress the frequency of classleads, as I'll better know what I can handle. We'll also be considering increasing report quantity for people with a history of valuable reports/comments.

Onward to the forums thread!
-T

Penned by my hand on Kinsday, the 7th of Chakros, in the year 492 MA.
MjollTetchtaSeurimasIllidanSryaenRijettaArdent

Comments

  • TetchtaTetchta Member Posts: 506 ✭✭✭✭


    1 report per person. This is going to cause salt, I know.




    Straightening into rigid, militant attention, A division of Bloodlochian soldiers squares its shoulders and crisply salutes you.
    Sryaen
  • TetchtaTetchta Member Posts: 506 ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2020
    Yeah "only one report" is "going to cause salt" the same way someone kicking you in the nuts is going to "cause salt." Obviously people are going to have issues with a six month balance cycle that also simultaneously cuts report volume by two thirds (unless we coordinate with others which, yeah, everyone loves group projects.)

    Seems bad, especially since you'll have more time than ever to read tickets and code changes.
    Straightening into rigid, militant attention, A division of Bloodlochian soldiers squares its shoulders and crisply salutes you.
  • CzciborCzcibor Member Posts: 158 ✭✭✭
    There is no way either Ascendril route can be fixed one report at a time especially when the design space has been so limited based on past classleads, so I want to get some clarification on this point.

    If we can present a genuine problem but our solutions are not desired for whatever reason, will the report be rejected outright or will there be a chance for us to work together to come up with a more suitable solution? Basically, in the past I have felt a strong tendency to take a solution implementation approach to classlead decisions rather than a problem fixing approach.
    TetchtaRijettaIllidan
  • RijettaRijetta Nowhere ImportantMember Posts: 232 ✭✭✭✭
    Perhaps with one report per person we could do classleads monthly
    A low, sultry voice resounds within the depths of your mind, "I look forward to seeing your descent."
    TetchtaDrystin
  • BorminchiaBorminchia Member Posts: 57 ✭✭✭
    yikes
    BulrokTetchta
  • IllidanIllidan Pray AreaMember Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2020
    Czcibor said:


    If we can present a genuine problem but our solutions are not desired for whatever reason, will the report be rejected outright or will there be a chance for us to work together to come up with a more suitable solution? Basically, in the past I have felt a strong tendency to take a solution implementation approach to classlead decisions rather than a problem fixing approach.

    After giving it a lot of though, this is probably my single biggest fear/frustration. Many of the problems I planned on addressing this round I addressed several years ago, but at the time they were not perceived as significant enough problems. They still are MASSIVE problems by and large because every solution got rejected outright due to not being favorable and or because they were believed to not be problematic.

    Getting 1 report every 6 months only to get the classic "Well it's not a problem, and if it is we don't like this solution but won't come up with one on our own." is only going to massively tilt people.

    Furthermore, when Nalus got designated as the shell with the suggestion to players that we should message it with combat concerns was bogus, because plenty of players (myself included) have sent the shell plenty of messages about plenty of egregiously broken things in combat to get absolutely 0 response. I feel that players should not have to waste reports on things that are pretty unquestionably unbalanced.
    They didn't listen when I said Shamans were strong in groups. 
                                                                                                    
              
  • IesidIesid Member Posts: 143 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2020
    I'm not that bothered by '1 report per person' on the surface - what it means is that comprehensive fixes will require that multiple players of a class or tether team up and address the issues together with multiple reports instead of relying on their three reports to carry all the water. Considering most of our reports get rejected anyways, it just means we've got to think very hard about what we're writing and submitting.

    Please don't call me salty, by the way. It's like a restaurant telling me I have bad taste before I look at the menu. Please don't do that. Some of the players who submit reports are rational human beings that don't want to express rage in written format. Thanks.

    My issue is with something else entirely: frequency. Six months is too long to wait for us to solve issues we found in month two of six or even one of six. At this very moment, issues exist on both sides and we have been putting up with them for twice as long as we usually do. I know people who are refusing to participate because it seems pointless. As others illustrate above, we have concerns that we're going to be dealing with these problems for another six months because we don't want to flood the board with reports on the same issue - especially combined with the problem of only getting one shot. If we submit exactly one report on an issue to make sure we cover more ground elsewhere, we might not get a serious issue fixed. If we spend more reports trying different solutions or explanations, we sacrifice multiple people's eloquence, experience, and the employment of their credibility on other issues just because we feel so strongly about XYZ.

    You are putting us in a bad position from Day Zero with these changes and the next problem only exacerbates it.

    We have absolutely no indication or guidance on how to address these inconsistencies and nor do we have any reading on the pulse of the admin's opinion because Nalus is still ignoring people's messages (see: @Stine sent a request multiple months ago and Nalus has STILL not answered him - @Tiur was even asked about this on the Questions Thread and we still didn't get a response) and thus we're taking shots in the dark. In previous cycles, Keroc would have at least provided a tacit opinion like 'nah I think this is ok and here is why' if I messaged him something - so long as I kept the salt to a minimum.

    Please rethink the report amount and the frequency. The combat environment cannot grow or flourish like this. Things get stale too fast to only revisit every half year. Things become sore points and having to deal with them twice as long is going to take away from one of the greatest mechanical draws Aetolia had as an IRE: consistent and timely attention to their PK balance.
  • BulrokBulrok Member Posts: 199 ✭✭✭
    Does the most recent change mean that deleting skills is an option again? >:)
    ShAmAn'S aRe UsEleSs In GrOuPs

    Bias is ok so long as it's coming from someone who is biased - Aetolia Volunteers 2021
    Ardent
  • IllidanIllidan Pray AreaMember Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My concern is that the deletion/nerf of barrel was not enough, and that if any further reports get submitted suggesting further tuning down will be dismissed with "Well we already nerfed it so lets see what happens for the next 6 months."
    They didn't listen when I said Shamans were strong in groups. 
                                                                                                    
              
    Sryaen
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