Announce post #3136: Question Thread

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Comments

  • TiurTiur Producer
    Lin
    I have two takes on Tiur's answer to story events, re: being unable to do fires, racial tension, etc. etc.

    1) It seems short-sighted, letting a few especially contentious examples paint the playerbase as a bunch of softies. Two spring to mind: the race riots in Enorian, while not the most exciting subject, weren't reviled because of the premise, but because they were one of the worst examples of railroading Enorian's attempt to do the right thing, producing a shitty outcome no matter what they did. Then there's Bamathis. I'm not as stridently against him as some of my peers, but I have to concede they have a point. He was several elements that, in isolation, aren't too bad (no one minds Abhorash being a straight-up Hitler Youth posterboy because he's evil in an interesting and unique way), but put all together made for a very unfortunate juxtaposition. These are two extreme examples and i think letting things like this limit your creativity is a mistake.


    Normally stories are a great way to explore topics. I just want to avoid hitting something that has too much emotion attached to it to do well. Currently, with the state of the world, a lot of story tools hit too close to home. We've got stuff, though! I'm excited.

    2) You connected contentious real world events with gothic fantasy. What's up with that? Give us some nasty Cthulhus to fight. Surely there's more in Aetolia's future than a fantasy analogue of BLM or something?


    Blaaaarg. Last year I was told that the Big Bad is too often a giant Cthulhu we all have to band together to fight! But I get you. There are more facets to Gothic Fantasy I can explore, it just requires reaching for story tools I'm not too sure of how to engage the game with. We all love Hill House, but how to sneak it in....
  • TiurTiur Producer
    That's all for now! I'll reopen this and let people comment. Not 100% we should continue, but I do kinda like having a place that all these things congregate and get looked at as a group.

    I realize I skipped Elene's stuff.
    Elene
  • edited October 2020
    Tiur said:

    I realize I skipped Elene's stuff.

    Mine too


  • Not really a question, but I would just like to say thank you and I appreciate the time you took to answer all of these questions.
    ValorieSaltzRebra
  • SessizlikSessizlik Muffin Mage
    Tiur said:

    Teani
    A few more questions: What is the process involving player banning? As in, what steps are taken to determine if a player is going to be prevented from playing the game, whether it is short term, long term or permanently? What kind of factors play a role in this (money spent, IC actions, OOC actions, immersion breaking actions, all of the above)? What would it take to have this kind of ban lifted?
    My reasons for asking these are many, but I'll share one: at times it feels like some people are allowed to get away with far too much, making other player's time in the game miserable in may different ways, without any noticeable punishment.


    This is the question that's giving me a lot of heartache on how to answer, and I know this won't satisfy, but I'll try.

    I do my best to be as objective as possible. Some things are easy, like credit card fraud, but behavior is very difficult. Bug abuse is also easy; if you do it, and we can figure it as intentional, you're not worth it to keep around. Even abusive, mean, angry players are perfectly aware that this is a game and you report stuff like that.

    Behavior, though... first, I need to know about it. If someone is constantly nice in interactions with me, and never issued, I have no reason to go looking through things about how they act. Next, it needs to be in the game. It has to be pretty egregious for something in a chat program to make it appropriate for me to act in game, especially with how those things can be faked in reporting. Lastly, I use issues and player comment files to build a history. Someone with a history of certain behaviors that has received a warning is going to get worse and worse punishments, until they are gone entirely. Essentially "fired from being a player."

    I've almost never done that. Perhaps I should, but often there are two sides of a story. It's why I love IGNORE. If you ignore this abusive person, and they go around it to be abusive, that's an obvious, glaring rules infraction. I also cannot recommend this hard enough: Distance yourself from people who are 'bad' for you. You do not have to talk to them on discord, or pay attention to them whatsoever in game. I know that's not always possible, and I'm sorry. I do try my best, and I mean it when I say that I'm keeping an eye on someone's behavior.
    I need to comment on this. For those of you who don't know, I played Martinaux. I was harassed really bad by a player both IN the game and oocly. My FRIENDS in the game were harassed for being in the same room as my character. Harassed out of rping with me. I ended up retiring Marti and started a new character, but I couldn't break that fear of reaching out to people and start rping, because I was afraid she would find out and would harass those people as well, since she's done that to another alt I had. So I retired that character as well and started a new one. THE FEAR WAS STILL THERE!
    So, now I've stopped playing alltogether, cause that person simply took all the fun out of the game for me. And I know she's been doing it to numerous other people. I'm trying hard not to be upset with all the credits that unicorn cost me through all those retirements, but I will never forgive the game being taken away from me. And I have to put some of that blame on the Admins. You all KNOW what is going on. You KNOW who I am talking about and what she's been doing to so many people and you LET her do it. WHY?! I was told to report if she did anything even after I distanced myself and created new characters. When she still harassed my friends, speculating that certain new characters were me and talking unicorn, I told you, @Tiur, and STILL NOTHING HAPPENED!
    I miss the game so, so much. I miss the tedious bashing and having fun rping with people. I miss the friends I had, because I don't dare to talk to them anymore. It hurts. It hurts cause I can't play this game anymore. Because you don't stop abuse when proof is shoved in your face.
    image
    Rebra
  • edited October 2020
    Sessizlik said:

    Tiur said:

    Teani
    A few more questions: What is the process involving player banning? As in, what steps are taken to determine if a player is going to be prevented from playing the game, whether it is short term, long term or permanently? What kind of factors play a role in this (money spent, IC actions, OOC actions, immersion breaking actions, all of the above)? What would it take to have this kind of ban lifted?
    My reasons for asking these are many, but I'll share one: at times it feels like some people are allowed to get away with far too much, making other player's time in the game miserable in may different ways, without any noticeable punishment.


    This is the question that's giving me a lot of heartache on how to answer, and I know this won't satisfy, but I'll try.

    I do my best to be as objective as possible. Some things are easy, like credit card fraud, but behavior is very difficult. Bug abuse is also easy; if you do it, and we can figure it as intentional, you're not worth it to keep around. Even abusive, mean, angry players are perfectly aware that this is a game and you report stuff like that.

    Behavior, though... first, I need to know about it. If someone is constantly nice in interactions with me, and never issued, I have no reason to go looking through things about how they act. Next, it needs to be in the game. It has to be pretty egregious for something in a chat program to make it appropriate for me to act in game, especially with how those things can be faked in reporting. Lastly, I use issues and player comment files to build a history. Someone with a history of certain behaviors that has received a warning is going to get worse and worse punishments, until they are gone entirely. Essentially "fired from being a player."

    I've almost never done that. Perhaps I should, but often there are two sides of a story. It's why I love IGNORE. If you ignore this abusive person, and they go around it to be abusive, that's an obvious, glaring rules infraction. I also cannot recommend this hard enough: Distance yourself from people who are 'bad' for you. You do not have to talk to them on discord, or pay attention to them whatsoever in game. I know that's not always possible, and I'm sorry. I do try my best, and I mean it when I say that I'm keeping an eye on someone's behavior.
    I need to comment on this. For those of you who don't know, I played Martinaux. I was harassed really bad by a player both IN the game and oocly. My FRIENDS in the game were harassed for being in the same room as my character. Harassed out of rping with me. I ended up retiring Marti and started a new character, but I couldn't break that fear of reaching out to people and start rping, because I was afraid she would find out and would harass those people as well, since she's done that to another alt I had. So I retired that character as well and started a new one. THE FEAR WAS STILL THERE!
    So, now I've stopped playing alltogether, cause that person simply took all the fun out of the game for me. And I know she's been doing it to numerous other people. I'm trying hard not to be upset with all the credits that unicorn cost me through all those retirements, but I will never forgive the game being taken away from me. And I have to put some of that blame on the Admins. You all KNOW what is going on. You KNOW who I am talking about and what she's been doing to so many people and you LET her do it. WHY?! I was told to report if she did anything even after I distanced myself and created new characters. When she still harassed my friends, speculating that certain new characters were me and talking unicorn, I told you, @Tiur, and STILL NOTHING HAPPENED!
    I miss the game so, so much. I miss the tedious bashing and having fun rping with people. I miss the friends I had, because I don't dare to talk to them anymore. It hurts. It hurts cause I can't play this game anymore. Because you don't stop abuse when proof is shoved in your face.
    Having held a position in my life where I have had to mediate between two parties, I feel the need to play Devil's Advocate to this commentary. @Tiur has the unenviable position to collect evidence from all sides, listen to both parties, and make a decision, even if that decision is to do nothing. I am not attempting to diminish your experience, nor say that what happened was not disturbing, awful, or unacceptable, but I also do not know the story of, the experiences of, or what was shared by the other party or parties involved.

    That is the difficulty with behavior. Experiences are subjective and colored by subjectivity. To use a hyperbole, we laugh and stare and shake our heads at the antics of those dubbed "Karens" in social media, but from their perspective they are fully justified in their response. Again, that is hyperbole and it is commonly accepted that, based on the actions observed by a large number of people, that their responses are incorrect to the situation.

    The Administration, I imagine, have to be extra careful how, what, and where they use their "ban hammer" on players, which is why we often see punishments that become more severe over time that eventually lead to a ban. That is the nature of mediation and governance when it comes to two parties that disagree on the behavior of one, even more when one of the two parties feels that the behavior of one should limit their access to a service. Before you can rightly justify to your company, to your boss(es), and sometimes to yourself, that a person is deserving a ban from the services provided by your company, especially for behavior, your case often has to be airtight and agreed upon by more than one party, as is the case with "Karens".

    Did the Admin drop the ball? Possibly. Did the person in question do things that deserve punishments leading up to and including a ban? Possibly. But without knowing both sides, the interactions, the behaviors from all parties, the actions of all parties, etcetera, it is difficult for me (as Devil's Advocate) to state that the Admin have a greater responsibility to ensure a ban is done when x player says it is justified. It is terrible anyone has to go through a situation that left you feeling as you did when attempting to enjoy the game @Sessizlik. I hope, in the future, you will find a way to enjoy the game, and the community, again.

    Edit: To clarify in case there is any misunderstanding: I do not defend, justify, or condone any behavior that can be classified as harassment or harmful to another player's experience. This post is, instead, an attempt to help provide insight into the position @Tiur or any other admin may be in when faced with a situation or situations that ask for or demand that a player be banned for their behavior toward another.
    Tetchta
  • TeaniTeani Shadow Mistress Sweden
    edited October 2020


    Wouldn't it be a good idea to actually answer all the questions? I thought that was the purpose of clearing the air before moving on. Leaving contentious questions, when asked politely, unanswered will not improve the situation. People will simply continue to wonder and question the Administration's handling of things even if you pass on the torch of customer service to someone else.

    Edited to add:
    Why are Minipets considered such a high reward as to compete with 20-30 credits rewards during promotions when they can't be traded in for that much? Not everyone is that interested in them.



    Archelaus
  • To elaborate on a previous question of mine - re: PvP systems or activity generators: are you open to the idea of a PvP objective that occurs much more often than our current ones and maybe encourages smaller groups of players? The frequency could justify that kind of slimming down of numbers - and the lower maximum roster size might increase the diversity of strategic options. The numbers don't matter too much to me for the sake of the question. I think there's a lot of untapped potential in that kind of format. You could probably place it in a contested zone or something?
  • are you open to the idea of a PvP objective that occurs much more often than our current ones and maybe encourages smaller groups of players?

    Isn't this just minor foci?

    Although, I'm kinda hoping the third production skill might be PVP focused. That could be fun. Since this is the question thread, I'll go ahead and ask: what is the third production skill? Please?


    Didi has expressed her esteem of you for the following reason: Smart organized leader.
    Experience Gained: 47720 (Special) [total: 2933660]
    Needed for LVL: 122.00775356245
    DrystinTeani
  • SibattiSibatti Mamba dur Naya Amidst vibrant flora and trees
    edited October 2020
    Why does so much of Aetolia's history conflict with itself? I'm primarily speaking about things that have been said/done in previous years (events, God/Admin directives, etc.) that are being directly contradicted now. These aren't even ancient, "oldtolia" things either - stuff as recent as 2015. There are very clear statements and plots that have taken radical 180s, or simply disappear when staff changes over.

    I've heard the argument that "not everything should be black and white" and I get that, but we have a significant portion of the playerbase that aren't playing by those rules, and just want to be told what to do, apparently - and are willing to do things like remove people/punish people for nuance. It makes for an extremely frustrating experience.
    TetchtaPhoeneciaArchelaus
  • TetchtaTetchta The Innocent
    Tiur said:

    Blaaaarg. Last year I was told that the Big Bad is too often a giant Cthulhu we all have to band together to fight! But I get you. There are more facets to Gothic Fantasy I can explore, it just requires reaching for story tools I'm not too sure of how to engage the game with. We all love Hill House, but how to sneak it in....

    I will say that a trite storyline or event would be much better than absolutely nothing.

    GalileiTeaniArdent
  • Tiur said:



    Q3: Is anyone actually paying attention to the Nalus shell? I sent a message on 8/19/20 asking for thoughts on a report/classlead change and its impact since it was changed and have yet to hear any response.


    We are, but clearly not enough. We'll attach him to our discord system and handle responses more timely. I often just forget to check his messages.
    Hi @Tiur, I forwarded this same message on 10/10/20 after your above response. It is now 11/2/20 and I have yet to hear any response. Not even so much as a 'we don't have an opinion as of this time, handle it in class leads' or something equally unhelpful but at least showing the message was seen.

    This is going on three months since a message was sent. Why couldn't you or Keroc just have checked the messages on Nalus when you were going through my original question and shot me an answer? I basically feel like I'm being ignored, at this point.
    IesidArchelausValorieSessizlikRhineDrystin
  • edited November 2020
    I have been thinking and I wonder why do Divine not push back more against mortals? Is it simply their choice or is there some rule against it? I myself would very much enjoy it if they would be creative in this way and I think there is some missing RP potential in this department.

    Like why do they rarely ever smite, why do they not mess around with people more and be mischievous? They could easily kidnap, torture, threaten, mess with them in a multitude of ways through being creative with spells or other sort of things. I only ever see, if rarely, a divine will smite a mortal but then they can just simply revive with little consequence. I get it the mortal in question would have to go along with most of these things and it may not be for everyone, but why not? Is there too much potential for abuse? They are gods and goddess afterall and should be able to do whatever they wish, even if for their own amusement at times. They would only have to worry if a band of mortals got together to destroy their shrines which could maybe start a holy war, or if favoured enough their own patron might step in on their behalf. Or maybe not, maybe they find it amusing too. But I'm sure in most cases it would be proven acceptable unless the god/goddess themselves were the ones picking the fight without any reason.

    Just curious as to why this is. It is RP afterall.

    edit: Also that goes for people whom are in their divine order. Should they if not so desire it be able to ask them to climb to the highest mountain and yell something crazy and then jump off if it gets them favour or grants them a hearing to get a favour, quid pro quo? I mean that example is kind of absurd, but again they are a Divine. The mortal could always refuse and take the long/difficult route too. Or again does that open too much up for abuse?
  • AxiusAxius where I am
    @Azarae fun fact. There was at one point an allowance for this. I recall a time where Iosyne tossed a couple of Her followers down the Maw in the Lair. It was a fun little RP interaction from what I heard, and it resulted in it being math'd out that the fall was long than it'd take to fall from the moon to the core of earth. (They were falling for something like 5 minutes, and someone did the math on that)
  • You would have loved original Khepri
    SessizlikMjoll
  • LinLin Blackbird The Moonglade
    Tends to change depending on the prevailing culture in the Pools at the time. Back in the day we were pretty punishment/mettle/troll happy
  • Azarae said:

    I have been thinking and I wonder why do Divine not push back more against mortals? Is it simply their choice or is there some rule against it? I myself would very much enjoy it if they would be creative in this way and I think there is some missing RP potential in this department.

    Like why do they rarely ever smite, why do they not mess around with people more and be mischievous? They could easily kidnap, torture, threaten, mess with them in a multitude of ways through being creative with spells or other sort of things. I only ever see, if rarely, a divine will smite a mortal but then they can just simply revive with little consequence. I get it the mortal in question would have to go along with most of these things and it may not be for everyone, but why not? Is there too much potential for abuse? They are gods and goddess afterall and should be able to do whatever they wish, even if for their own amusement at times. They would only have to worry if a band of mortals got together to destroy their shrines which could maybe start a holy war, or if favoured enough their own patron might step in on their behalf. Or maybe not, maybe they find it amusing too. But I'm sure in most cases it would be proven acceptable unless the god/goddess themselves were the ones picking the fight without any reason.

    Just curious as to why this is. It is RP afterall.

    edit: Also that goes for people whom are in their divine order. Should they if not so desire it be able to ask them to climb to the highest mountain and yell something crazy and then jump off if it gets them favour or grants them a hearing to get a favour, quid pro quo? I mean that example is kind of absurd, but again they are a Divine. The mortal could always refuse and take the long/difficult route too. Or again does that open too much up for abuse?

    From my viewpoint (and I need to disclaim that this is just my viewpoint, not representative of all the Pools), players don't really take this sort of thing well. Creative punishments, even ones that are mechanically harmless, have a tendency to be received very negatively on an OOC level.

    Of course there are players that are open to this sort of RP where their characters are put into compromising positions. And we do do it in these instances where we know that it'd be well received and enjoyable for both parties. At the end of the day, that's the most important thing - believe me, it'd be incredibly vindictive/satisfying for a Divine to really stick it to someone who is blaspheming or whatnot, but if it's not fun for the player AND the Divine, then it's ultimately a net negative.

    That's why it's usually a zap and done - gets the message across that such won't be tolerated, keeps up the immersion that the Divine are several billion power levels above you, but ultimately doesn't create a longstanding negative reaction for/from the player either. When those reactions happen it's actually a very, very bad cascading effect: obviously the players are mad but the volunteer is also flamed, the rest of the Pools is unhappy about their peer being slammed, the admins start getting angry emails, and so on. It breeds a lot of toxicity all around on all sides. I've personally seen this time and time again for what are even the most innocuous punishments levied ICly by Divine. I've also been guilty of bad reactions myself when I was a player - it can be hard to find fun in situations that are negative for your character and not everyone can do it.

    It's been alluded to in other threads that player flame is one of the biggest reasons that volunteers become disillusioned and ultimately quit. Personalized punishments are a huge avenue for this kind of flaming to get started. That's why you're much more likely to get the kiddie gloves if the volunteer isn't familiar with you/isn't fully confident that you're open to it; otherwise it's more likely than not that the whole thing is going to blow up in a very bad way.

    It's not an allowance thing. Obviously we aren't allowed to outright grief you but there's nothing restricting more raw/compromising situations. It just ends badly on an OOC level more often than not.

    Again, disclaimer that this is just my own experience from seeing/being involved in this situation from both the player and Pools sides.
    SaidennTetchtaTsarraSaltzAzaraeLinFezzixZeheiaSilena
  • TetchtaTetchta The Innocent
    Tedrunai said:


    From my viewpoint (and I need to disclaim that this is just my viewpoint, not representative of all the Pools), players don't really take this sort of thing well. Creative punishments, even ones that are mechanically harmless, have a tendency to be received very negatively on an OOC level.

    From a player perspective, to weigh in, I remember getting fairly salty about the Herolt Bounty thing for the first hour or so. I got over it, and now it's kind of a fun RP thing for me (Tet having an unspoken rivalry with Herolt). I get the hesitation tbh, and not everybody is gonna get won over over time after the shock wears off.

  • edited November 2020
    @Tedrunai Thank you for the insight on this. I was trying to start something fun (or atleast that is what I thought) with Omei with Azarae and was kind of wondering why they were trying to just put Azarae off, but this explains it alot more. Best thing I guess would be to forget about it, is abit of a shame though but totally understandable. Maybe one day in the future if things change. Last thing I wish to do is cause tension. Thank you again and I appreciate your answer.

    edit: Out of curiousity, how can you even approach someone in the pools and see if they are okay with it and tell them you are okay with it too? I mean are they not allowed to communicate in any sort of OOC way, so how do you even establish that? Considering there is a disconnect between adventurers and above...how is that even possible? How do you go about it? It would be nice to know how I can go about this so I do not step on any toes in the future, or should I just play it super safe and air on the side of caution and just never bother with anything cause it could be taken the wrong way, or anything else for that matter?
  • TeaniTeani Shadow Mistress Sweden
    Wouldn't it be nice with some kind of config option where you foreswear your right to complain about Divine IC punishment? If you have that one actively enabled, volunteers can just point to that if you start getting OOCly salty or refuse to accept the consequences of your character's actions. Could even be set as a firm Admin punishment with a full day as a maggot if you go against it after making your choice.



    AzaraeValorieSaltz
  • config saferp off
    ValorieLinTetchtaRijettaRhineDrystinSilena
  • TedrunaiTedrunai Immortal
    edited November 2020
    Personally, I will usually send an OOC message to someone before embarking on some really dark/twisted/consequential stuff. Like hey are you okay with this leaving potentially lasting consequences on your character? It might ruin immersion a bit on the front end but in my opinion that's better than the alternative where the parties aren't aligned with what they want to get out of the situation. Everybody is the hero of their own story so while yeah it'd be really raw and cool and immersive for these Divine to go swinging their unicorns around and squishing these mouthy mortals, ultimately we need to take the OOC player on the other side into account too.

    On a broader level though, you should never expect Divine attention. It's just not consistent due to the simple fact that the people behind those interactions are human volunteers. Even if you're open to whatever comes, even if it'd promise to be a great situation all around it just...might not happen for various reasons. Maybe work is crazy that day/week/month. Maybe time is really limited and we need to spend what time we do get on Aetolia resolving ongoing threads instead of starting new ones. Maybe there are critical projects going on behind the scenes. Maybe the person just isn't feeling up to something big and is just around for some casual/light stuff. Maybe they're putting RP/godrole on the backburner to work on a coding project. Maybe they've taken a break from Aetolia. It goes on and on for any infinite number of reasons why interactions might not happen.

    We're interacting with tons of people with tons of storylines going on all at the same time. Unfortunately sometimes things fall by the wayside and don't come to fruition. This is a hobby for most of the Pools so if the volunteer doesn't feel like picking up whatever is being laid down, please don't take it personally. It might be for any infinite number of reasons, as mentioned above, and is rarely ever about you personally as a player. Of course if you do prove to be abrasive/unpleasant to deal with OOCly then that affects people's willingness to engage but for the most part that's not really the reason why you might get ignored or brushed off.

    All in all, remember that there's another person playing for fun behind the god roles. While yes it'd be amazing for us to be able to devote hours nurturing interactions and storylines with everyone, in reality it's just not possible. So go ahead and try to start things, enjoy the interactions when they come, but don't expect something to happen. And try not to get discouraged or bitter when it doesn't happen, again it's usually not for any personal reason against you.
    SaidennAzaraeSibattiAxiusRhineArdent
  • In my experience, IRE asks a lot of its volunteers compared to many organizations with volunteering as a primary source of labor. In the times I have volunteered for animal shelters and organizations, fundraising groups, and the like, 99% of volunteers are those people who can spare 1-2 hours a week, maybe 3-4, to do very menial tasks that free up the very limited paid staff to work on organizational and administrative tasks.

    Aetolia, and IRE as a whole, are unique in some regards in that we have a collection of volunteers who fairly quickly go from somewhat 'menial' work (building, designing, small progs, assisting in smaller events), to being responsible for continuing the storylines and role of a God that has more years of backstory than a helping of us have played. It is demanding, in and of itself, knowing who, what, and how you are supposed to play, all while knowing that the 'menial' work is not being backfilled by new volunteers immediately, as can happen with a lot of volunteer organizations.

    We are, as a whole, passionate about Aetolia, and I know the Pools are no less. That is why they do what they do, that is why -any- volunteer (apart from fringe examples and community service) do what they do; they love the project which they have chosen to give their time. While in many ways the Pools do exist to help facilitate our stories as players, the world story, and the mechanical bits we, as players, cannot alter due to coded limitations, they are still volunteers at the end of the day.

    When I ran some orgs forever ago in Imperian, I feel I got some of the best advice I could when it came to interacting with volunteers from the then-Thanatos, also known as Seki (rest in peace). We were working on a small RP arc around my character but also involving guild and city, and I asked her as we were going over the bits and pieces and she had already created so much, if there was anything I could do to help her out on a player level. She told me (paraphrased), "Be patient, be engaged when given the opportunity, and have fun. I love doing this because I love watching you guys have fun. I have fun when you're having fun." So yeah. I know we won't find EVERY event fun and volunteers can and will miss the mark or confuse us or do/say something with an NPC or story that doesn't fit in the mold for the story before or some event that happened between you and one other player and that NPC exactly 5.7 years ago.

    Try to have fun, and if you're not sure if you're having fun or something doesn't make sense, don't be afraid to send an OOC message sometimes that is like, "Hey, I've had experience with this NPC/story/whatever, anything I can do to help with you or the proceedings?" You may get ignored, but that's okay. Volunteers miss messages, get busy, or not really sure if/how they can include us beyond the ways they are. Best thing to remember is we all tend to have fun when we're trying to create fun for other people more than ourselves.

    TL;DR: Be nice to each other when we can, be empathetic, and try to remember that you tend to get more when you give than when you take.
    SaltzRebraTedrunaiBraxGavramelAxiusValorie
  • Speaking personally, I don't mind if a player shoots me an OOC message (very rarely). If I don't think it's appropriate to respond, I won't. Definitely don't expect special treatment because of it, but sometimes it's good to know, for example, that players might want to continue something later even if they're leaving now, and don't have a good way to bring it up IC, or myriad other things.

    Again, personally, I have zapped (or creatively zapped) players, or done some creative (and usually very brief) punishments, after watching very carefully to make sure that they would be well-received. We want you guys to have fun. Something that is funny to us but would upset you all isn't actually funny to us and would never happen to you knowingly.

    If you want divine RP - reach out! We may not know you're seeking it! We enjoy a wide variety of interactions that you may literally never know about if you don't simply start. I absolutely won't reach out to players who show no interest in the character I play without a very good reason. Our temples are usually public for a reason, and we absolutely can hear you SAY or EMOTE with our names (as long as we're online/paying attention/available) and consider whether we should be reacting.
    She/her but also responds to they/them thanks to chilling as Somebody or other.

    If in doubt, please refer to the Forum Rules! If in more doubt, please reach out to a moderator.

    Act as you would wish to be treated.

    "It costs you nothing to assume that we are acting in good faith."
    SaltzAxiusSaidennAzarae
  • TeaniTeani Shadow Mistress Sweden
    edited November 2020
    Tiur said:
    That's all for now! I'll reopen this and let people comment. Not 100% we should continue, but I do kinda like having a place that all these things congregate and get looked at as a group. I realize I skipped Elene's stuff.


    Vharen said:
    I realize I skipped Elene's stuff.
    Mine too
    Teani said:
    Wouldn't it be a good idea to actually answer all the questions? I thought that was the purpose of clearing the air before moving on. Leaving contentious questions, when asked politely, unanswered will not improve the situation. People will simply continue to wonder and question the Administration's handling of things even if you pass on the torch of customer service to someone else.

    I realize you wrote that you were hesitant about keeping this up, but there are still some things up in the air. There have been fewer questions this round and three and a half weeks of keeping the thread open. 

    Pardon the frankness here, but it feels like communication and transparency is still an issue because of that, and that there is a reluctance to truly resolve problems that need to be resolved in order to move on. Having been in a discussion regarding one of those unanswered questions with you, @Tiur, I am aware that it is a minefield. However, waiting it out is clearly not going to make it go away. Is this how you wish to leave it?



    ArchelausSessizlikLinNaos
  • TiurTiur Producer
    Okay! I'll close the thread while I formulate answers. I'm currently extremely busy running an event and coding, obviously. My goal will be to answer questions I unintentionally missed. Those that I skipped on purpose, I will try to find a way to explain why I am not answering them without causing any trouble. Some cannot be answered in customer service voice, and I need to debate internally the pros and cons of that.
This discussion has been closed.