The Reality of it all...

2

Comments

  • SeurimasSeurimas Member Posts: 76 ✭✭✭
    Xavin said:

    Seurimas said:

    Duiran and Enorian are presented with 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' scenarios as part of events


    That just really seems like a Good and Light kind of problem, to me. Because the Dark and Evil just burn the village down and call it a day. Or grapple with the price of the Power they sought and turn Good.
    You aren't wrong. But it smacks of the old "Lol I'm going to present the party's Paladin with a situation that is engineered to make them fall no matter what they do" sort of crap that D&D game masters who think they're clever like to pull. Good guys having bad consequences from being good guys is fine some of the time. But honestly, it feels like it happens damn near every time here.
    If that's really all you were getting, sure. But I've seen plenty of safe events too. Baby Omei(?) does her thing (or used to? I lost track of her), for example. The non-safe events certainly catch wider notice and take up more headspace, though, at least in part because the controversy pulls people in.
  • TinaTina Member Posts: 82 ✭✭✭
    This happens to both sides, it isn't limited to spirit. Though with the gothic themes and lose lose mentality it's easy to see a larger effect in the mentality of the people trying to be the good guys, for sure. We get kicks sometimes too when spirit gets handed wins. Like the cleansing of Kalydian and the Vale. Some of us actively sought the corruption there, helped establish lore on it and took part in corruption events there. Then to wake up one day and be told nope, it was all cleansed nothing you could do or interact about it. It is a kick in the face for us too. Sometimes those just happen. I get that's not as big of a scale as evil gods infiltrating your orgs or whatever the perception is, but it's not limited only to Spirit. And many decisions do cause infighting on shadow and we rarely all agree on a path. When something is decided by the majority we grit our teeth and bear it and go with it, even if we don't agree, cause we'd simply rather win than lose. That mentality gives us unity and keeps us from fracturing too much when we don't agree. We have a philosophy that normally keeps the split from growing too bad.

    Sounds like spirit needs to find something to unify them when opinions split. If not a philosophy then a person. That can be the final authority on what direction spirit should be nudging. One that everyone can agree and get behind on spirit. Could be a player, could be an npc, could be a god. But these tough choices will keep coming to both sides while we remain a gothic styled mud. Unless we want to change the theme of the game entirely and no longer be gothic, both sides need to find effective ways to deal with it.
    ArdentEscelikaTeaniHaven
  • KarhastKarhast EnorianMember Posts: 131 ✭✭✭
    Seurimas said:
    Duiran and Enorian are presented with 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' scenarios as part of events
    That just really seems like a Good and Light kind of problem, to me. Because the Dark and Evil just burn the village down and call it a day. Or grapple with the price of the Power they sought and turn Good.
    You aren't wrong. But it smacks of the old "Lol I'm going to present the party's Paladin with a situation that is engineered to make them fall no matter what they do" sort of crap that D&D game masters who think they're clever like to pull. Good guys having bad consequences from being good guys is fine some of the time. But honestly, it feels like it happens damn near every time here.
    If that's really all you were getting, sure. But I've seen plenty of safe events too. Baby Omei(?) does her thing (or used to? I lost track of her), for example. The non-safe events certainly catch wider notice and take up more headspace, though, at least in part because the controversy pulls people in.
    A goddess, on her own, hosting events on her order does not have the same magnitude as a deity very central to the Albedi conflict arc does. Doubly so when said goddess then proceeds to cheer every time Bamathis' mere presence fractures the tether some more. 
    ArdentXavin
  • PhoeneciaPhoenecia The Merchant of Esterport Somewhere in AtticaMember Posts: 749 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It feels like being railroaded. The way it appears is that if you're not on board with the Bamathis and Sapience vs Albedos train and the way THEY want it carried out, you get dismissed. And this has been reinforced by not only players, but also event runners, and also ICly by gods with their shrugging and telling people to just bear with it. If there's a choice at all, it really feels like players are being heavily driven towards one avenue and dissuaded from other action. Add onto that the fact that Spirit orgs are continually forced to deal with these kinds of things induces a lot of player apathy. 'Why oppose this when no one's going to listen or do anything about it anyway?' Eventually players stop caring and breed severe mistrust, which is kind of where we're at right now. 

    Remember how during the Liruma War, Enorian and Duiran moving to support the Mitrine was kind of a no-brainer while Bloodloch and Spinesreach were choosing between the Ophidians and Imps, and the confusion over where Shadow gods were directing or influencing the decision?

    Yes, having moral dilemmas and difficult choices makes things interesting, but do it all the time and it becomes exhausting, and starts breeding resentment. Shadow side, it's very easy to swat aside moral dilemmas with the excuse of not giving a crap. Oh, that Shadow experiment backfired and destroyed a chunk of the continent and killed lots of people? Enh, minor setback - let's move on to the next one. 
    Xavin
  • XavinXavin Member Posts: 1,502 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think you're misunderstanding. This isn't a matter of 'getting handed wins'. This is a matter of Spirit orgs literally being given nothing but wrong choices and then being punished for them. As in railroaded events. And not just over small things like an area being slightly changed like the Kalydian or Aureliana. This isn't a matter of tough choices. It's a matter of nothing but choices that do anything but blow up in Spirit's face. And it happens regularly. Ask any veteran Enorian player and they could tell you off hand about at least three or four events where the city and the players essentially had 0 agency because their choices didn't matter or nothing but bad choices were given. Duiran's veterans could likely do the same as well, though perhaps not with as many events.

    Shadow side doesn't get these sorts of issues because there really isn't a moral question in Spinesreach or Bloodloch. The safe events for Duiran or Enorian are much rarer and usually limited to sub-orgs. The baby omei event, for example, was literally an Omei order event about getting that god a new shell. Low risk, no matter what way you cut it.

  • SeurimasSeurimas Member Posts: 76 ✭✭✭
    Shadow side doesn't get these sorts of issues because there really isn't a moral question in Spinesreach or Bloodloch. The safe events for Duiran or Enorian are much rarer and usually limited to sub-orgs. The baby omei event, for example, was literally an Omei order event about getting that god a new shell. Low risk, no matter what way you cut it.

    I guess I'm not following, then. Are there any examples of a Shadow tether event that you wish Spirit tether had something similar?
  • ArdentArdent Member Posts: 37
    From what I'm understanding. @Xavin Is saying that if events were given to Spinesreach and Enorian at the same time with similar setup, there would be more issues with the choices given to Enorian because of the RP of the organization whereas Spinesreach could basically just shrug it off and carry on no matter how messed up the choice are.
    Xavin
  • SeirSeir Seein' All the Things Getting high off your emotionMember Posts: 992 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 13
    Tina said:

    This happens to both sides, it isn't limited to spirit. Though with the gothic themes and lose lose mentality it's easy to see a larger effect in the mentality of the people trying to be the good guys, for sure. We get kicks sometimes too when spirit gets handed wins. Like the cleansing of Kalydian and the Vale. Some of us actively sought the corruption there, helped establish lore on it and took part in corruption events there. Then to wake up one day and be told nope, it was all cleansed nothing you could do or interact about it. It is a kick in the face for us too. Sometimes those just happen. I get that's not as big of a scale as evil gods infiltrating your orgs or whatever the perception is, but it's not limited only to Spirit. And many decisions do cause infighting on shadow and we rarely all agree on a path. When something is decided by the majority we grit our teeth and bear it and go with it, even if we don't agree, cause we'd simply rather win than lose. That mentality gives us unity and keeps us from fracturing too much when we don't agree. We have a philosophy that normally keeps the split from growing too bad.

    Sounds like spirit needs to find something to unify them when opinions split. If not a philosophy then a person. That can be the final authority on what direction spirit should be nudging. One that everyone can agree and get behind on spirit. Could be a player, could be an npc, could be a god. But these tough choices will keep coming to both sides while we remain a gothic styled mud. Unless we want to change the theme of the game entirely and no longer be gothic, both sides need to find effective ways to deal with it.

    The cleansing of the Kalydian and the Vale are the only two instances I know of in my entire time playing Aetolia with Spirit getting a lasting win in the lore. A lot of the time, our events tended to explode in our face because we were getting railroaded into disaster regardless of the decision that we chose. While I won't deny that it can and has happened to Shadow, it's a reoccurring theme for Spirit and happens with far more frequency to them. Examples being the race riots in Enorian, some of the Dendara corruption events, etc. I'm fairly sure if I took the time to scour the forums, I can find threads complaining about similar themes and how Spirit seems to be consistently thrust into "damned if we do, damned if we don't" scenarios, to the point where many stop bothering -- and then they get punished for that too.

    Edit: Want to note though that we're derailing this thread with a different topic, and we should likely return to the original point of how a player was chased from their organization by a mixture of OOC commentary and actions that run contrary to what an organization has historically done, how they've acted with eleven years of established roleplay, and has as tenets.
    Ardent
  • DarimDarim Member Posts: 22
    edited May 13
    Xavin said:

    Seurimas said:

    Duiran and Enorian are presented with 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' scenarios as part of events


    That just really seems like a Good and Light kind of problem, to me. Because the Dark and Evil just burn the village down and call it a day. Or grapple with the price of the Power they sought and turn Good.
    You aren't wrong. But it smacks of the old "Lol I'm going to present the party's Paladin with a situation that is engineered to make them fall no matter what they do" sort of crap that D&D game masters who think they're clever like to pull. Good guys having bad consequences from being good guys is fine some of the time. But honestly, it feels like it happens damn near every time here.
    The solution is to take Oath of Vengeance when you reach level 3.

    ETA: Ahem, sorry, I'll try to be a little more constructive. I try very hard to stay away from OOC stuff as much as I can, though sometimes it can't be helped. Precious, precious few people have my Discord, and I like for it to be that way. I much prefer to feel like things come from the characters in the game, rather than the players, even if they're doing something to try to help me out. If someone meta's against me, that's fine, but you should expect my character(or anyone else's character) to respond accordingly to what they see in the game.
    OonaghArdentEscelika
  • KarhastKarhast EnorianMember Posts: 131 ✭✭✭
    Fezzix said:

    Aishia said:

    Really hate this Bamathis stuff. To the point is actually stresses me out. The only reason I haven't kicked up a much larger stink is because I'm tired of us being forced by the course of events to tear our own orgs apart because we're never EVER presented with clear cut decisions while darkside path is always 100% obvious. Just tired.

    You're joking. You and @Xavin both.

    Remember the Liruma War, when Spirit side had a clear side to back and Shadow players spent several RL days deliberating over whether or not to back the imps or ophidians, and Spirit had a massive head start in claiming territory because of it?

    Remember the Three Widow War, when many Bloodloch characters wanted to support the slavers, and Spinesreach spent a long time with an intense moral debate over why they should support the villagers instead? You weren't privy to any of this, but it was a big source of contention. This, once again, gave the Spirit players a head start.

    Remember after the War of Night when Abhorash absorbed Ati and became infused with the Shadowbound Taint? The Syssin looked into it, the lore was backed up by Severn, and we took action against the Dominion. It upset a lot of players, and it sparked all kinds of IC and OOC turmoil between orgs that were normally very close. It took years for us to recover, but now we've got the best relationship between orgs that I've seen in my five years playing.

    Don't lecture me about how easy Shadow has it or how we never have to make hard decisions. Don't whine at me about how the direction of the lore is tearing your communities apart. Deal with it like we did.

    EDIT: I'm not going to touch on being "handed" wins in events. What I'm getting at is that Shadow side has definitely had its own moral hurdles and debates to overcome, and yet we still manage to do well. If you want to win the culture wars IC, take action. Omei just opened up membership to Spinesreach and Bloodloch, but I don't see any outcry over it.

    You didn't get punished for any of these choices, best I'm aware. We do. All the time. unicorns, man, if we'd be given actual choices where we could in fact decide our own path without god damned prophets screeching in our ears I'd be all for it.
  • XavinXavin Member Posts: 1,502 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't remember any of those, because I wasn't playing. But do you remember the three race riot events held in Enorian in a matter of two or three years, in which there was only ever one bad choice made by a player but the orgs still got hammered for being 'bad'? What about that event where Enorian's prophet started acting wildly out of character, punishing people who dared point out that what she was doing wasn't what the city was about, and ended up having been manipulated by Severn the whole time? I'm sure the list could get longer with even a cursory search of events posts.

    If you honestly thing that those situations compare to the consistent bending over that spirit orgs tend to get in events, where they are railroaded and given a LOLARTIFICE'D conclusion, or they are punished for something they had no way of possibly resolving because it's what the admin wanted to happen in the first place, I don't know what to tell you.

    Shadow doesn't -get- the moral choices in events because Shadow gets the luxury of not NEEDING morals. Shadow hasn't been hammered into the ground since pre-2004 with 'this is how your orgs are to act and if you don't we'll burn you to the ground'. Three events where Bloodloch and Spinesreach may have had different objectives or sides does not equate to 15+
    YEARS of events where Enorian or Duiran or one of their child orgs are given choices A B and C and all of them are designed to blow up in their faces. And it's freakin' insulting that you think this is something that we just 'need to deal with'. The fact of the matter is that the two sides of the game are treated differently when it comes to events. And that this particular storyline has been botched in a way that many, many before it were also botched.

    Aeryx
  • PhoeneciaPhoenecia The Merchant of Esterport Somewhere in AtticaMember Posts: 749 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I did bring up the initial division of Shadow side during the Liruma War.

    I will list off all the Spirit events that I know of where there were a division of sides, confusing or conflicting information of what to do, or trying to do the right thing or following the RP only to have it blow up in your face.

    Aside from the current Bamathis stuff...

    Repeated divisions on the acceptance of Omei in both Enorian and Duiran over the years. The Gray Accords: Duiran dragged its feet in joining and was initially very resistant on cooperating with Shadow until leaders were yelled at by gods. The question of accepting refugees in Duiran. Race riots in Enorian, twice. The death of the Illuminai guild tutor. Various arguments over conversion vs extermination. 
  • XavinXavin Member Posts: 1,502 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There were three race riot events, iirc @Phoenecia

  • DarimDarim Member Posts: 22
    Karhast said:

    Fezzix said:

    Aishia said:

    Really hate this Bamathis stuff. To the point is actually stresses me out. The only reason I haven't kicked up a much larger stink is because I'm tired of us being forced by the course of events to tear our own orgs apart because we're never EVER presented with clear cut decisions while darkside path is always 100% obvious. Just tired.

    You're joking. You and @Xavin both.

    Remember the Liruma War, when Spirit side had a clear side to back and Shadow players spent several RL days deliberating over whether or not to back the imps or ophidians, and Spirit had a massive head start in claiming territory because of it?

    Remember the Three Widow War, when many Bloodloch characters wanted to support the slavers, and Spinesreach spent a long time with an intense moral debate over why they should support the villagers instead? You weren't privy to any of this, but it was a big source of contention. This, once again, gave the Spirit players a head start.

    Remember after the War of Night when Abhorash absorbed Ati and became infused with the Shadowbound Taint? The Syssin looked into it, the lore was backed up by Severn, and we took action against the Dominion. It upset a lot of players, and it sparked all kinds of IC and OOC turmoil between orgs that were normally very close. It took years for us to recover, but now we've got the best relationship between orgs that I've seen in my five years playing.

    Don't lecture me about how easy Shadow has it or how we never have to make hard decisions. Don't whine at me about how the direction of the lore is tearing your communities apart. Deal with it like we did.

    EDIT: I'm not going to touch on being "handed" wins in events. What I'm getting at is that Shadow side has definitely had its own moral hurdles and debates to overcome, and yet we still manage to do well. If you want to win the culture wars IC, take action. Omei just opened up membership to Spinesreach and Bloodloch, but I don't see any outcry over it.

    You didn't get punished for any of these choices, best I'm aware. We do. All the time. unicorns, man, if we'd be given actual choices where we could in fact decide our own path without god damned prophets screeching in our ears I'd be all for it.
    If the prophet doesn't agree with you, then...hang the prophet.
    ArdentOonaghHaven
  • AishiaAishia Queen Bee Member Posts: 2,271 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Fezzix fair examples! I take back the unilateral nature of my statement. I don't know if you've seen how horribly some of the same sorts of decisions end up effecting our side just because of the nature of the moral systems we have in place as part of our RP~ though. I really do think the other side is much better equipped to deal with ambiguity. Most of the situations I'm talking about are not issues between Enorian Vs. Duiran or Guilds but literally internal and interpersonal conflicts inside those two orgs themselves.
    DarimOonaghRihrinFezzix
  • TeaniTeani Shadow Mistress SwedenMember Posts: 2,122 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Seconding what @Fezzix just wrote. There have been plenty of situations where Shadow have been put in rather impossible situations. The Proxy war in Liruma practically forced Bloodloch and the Ophidians together despite their bad history.

    Sure, a lot of times, morals won't trip Shadow up as much as it might Spirit, but there are still plenty of debates involved. The worst thing there is not being assisted when it comes to lore, or feeling like the lore of events contradict, or lack enough connection to the new changes.

    ----
    As for toxicity, there is plenty in this game to go around. There are so many players here that I love and adore. I even crossed oceans to meet up with several of them. However, there are some who seem to be afraid of others for no good reason, and speak ill of them as a way to safeguard themselves.

    I have been told, by more than one other player, that there have been players talking unicorns about me on OOC forums, and this has happened through the many years I've been playing, as well as lately when I've barely even been around to do anything. I do my very best to just ignore this and move past it, because I've lost the will to put that kind of energy into this game I have loved since somewhere around 2006. A confession, though, is that I have considered just calling it quits a few times. If anyone cares, you can thank a few wonderful players still in the game for keeping me where I am.

    The number of people who have told me that they feel it is pointless to speak up feels staggeringly high at times. Even if it might be an awesome idea that could improve the game in so many ways, they feel that some other players/Admin/Volunteers would never want to hear something if it came from them, so why bother? This is something that shouldn't be taken lightly. Especially when it involves people saying such things about Admin/Volunteers. Sure, there is the usual salt and grumbles about balances and such, but some concerns run deeper. Personally, I preferred when there was more of a gag order when it came to Celani, leaving official communication to paid staff only. Maybe that's just me, but it seems like some of the other IRE games are still holding to that. Perhaps something could also be set up so people can't yo-yo up and down to Pools without some kind of grace period?



    ArdentDarimOonagh
  • DarimDarim Member Posts: 22
    Savas said:


    Can someone translate this? I don't understand.
    Oonagh
  • FezzixFezzix Member Posts: 306 ✭✭✭✭
    @Sibatti And yet I haven't done a single damn thing in game, because Fezzix doesn't know about Sibatti, nor has he interacted with her.

    It's not metagaming when you acknowledge how your character will react under certain stimuli.

    It's also not metagaming when I state that I severely dislike someone. I know how to separate my feelings from those of my character. As much as I'd love to grief people who call my friends white supremacists, I haven't done it despite my rants.

    Them's fightin' words.
    OonaghEscelikaTeani
  • OonaghOonagh Member Posts: 335 ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 13
    Darim said:

    Savas said:


    Can someone translate this? I don't understand.
    @Darim
    F5 Key is often used to refresh a web page. Click F5 to open Find & Replace window in MS Word. Starts a slideshow when clicked in PowerPoint. Fn+F5 decreases brightness on your monitor on some laptops.

    I cant find the shrug emoji and don't feel inclined to respond.
    I'm not embarrased or ashamed by things I say, and am absolutely blunt when it comes to these sorts of things, part of the life of a person who works in the rehabilitation of others is not sugar-coating their feelings and being able to be expressive.

    Ill go back to standing by my points and not feeling victimized.

    I want to however say to the numerous people who have contacted me on discord and in-game, your words to me stating you are glad someone has taken a stand against what is deemed as the elitists and overall clique problems with this game as a whole have been, for all intents and purposes comforting, knowing that so many of you feel the way I feel and are not alone.

    I am grateful for you being supportive and sharing some of your experiences with these toxic players, and how they have detracted from the environment of the game. I know I opened a can of worms with this, but I also handed out the shovels to dig the holes for those who wanted to claim them.

    Ill share one of those snippets, censored since I don't want to post without permission from the person.
    In my line of work we use a Release of Information for that, but may as well just REDACT.


    Oonagh has been slain by the might of the toxic atmosphere of Ulangi.
    DarimEscelika
  • TetchtaTetchta Member Posts: 78 ✭✭✭
    Oonagh said:

    ...experiences with these toxic players, and how they have detracted from the environment of the game. I know I opened a can of worms with this, but I also handed out the shovels to dig the holes for those who wanted to claim them...

    Oonagh, my dude, aside from rhetoric like this being unhelpful, I'm not sure labeling people "toxic" after screenshots like those are released is the move I'd make.
    You stare implacably at Abhorash, and he shrinks from your gaze.
    KarhastNola
  • OonaghOonagh Member Posts: 335 ✭✭✭✭
    Tetchta said:

    Oonagh said:

    ...experiences with these toxic players, and how they have detracted from the environment of the game. I know I opened a can of worms with this, but I also handed out the shovels to dig the holes for those who wanted to claim them...

    Oonagh, my dude, aside from rhetoric like this being unhelpful, I'm not sure labeling people "toxic" after screenshots like those are released is the move I'd make.
    Tetchta my dude, the label was there long before the screenshots, I assure you.
    Oonagh has been slain by the might of the toxic atmosphere of Ulangi.
  • DrystinDrystin Member Posts: 94 ✭✭✭
    edited May 13
    Can someone please explain the salt with Bama clearly? Obviously there is a lot of back room discussions being referred to here that some of us are unaware of. As someone who has a character very much tied to Bama, I'm very out of the loop it seems. What's the deal? I'm not in all the cliquey discords so maybe I'm missing the latest metagaming that the cool kids are pulling off, but the lazy black and white, uncreative way I've seen a lot of spirit (speaking as someone on spirit currently) react to the whole Bama thing, among others ICly is what is tiresome to me.

    I haven't always gotten along with @Iesid  but big props to him for considering all angles and thinking outside the box a little bit instead of just "BAMBAM BAD!". Especially when his RP is tied to Omei and not Bamathis.

    I personally haven't had any problems with any volunteers and I can't agree that Aetolia is THAT toxic of an environment, but I do think more people need to learn how to RP effectively. This means being interested in the RP of other people's characters as well as your own and allowing their RP to affect the course of your own, at least somewhat.This also means understanding the difference between the character and the player and I think a LOT of people are having a problem with this particular point right now.
    Karhast said:
    Really hate this Bamathis stuff. To the point is actually stresses me out. The only reason I haven't kicked up a much larger stink is because I'm tired of us being forced by the course of events to tear our own orgs apart because we're never EVER presented with clear cut decisions while darkside path is always 100% obvious. Just tired.
    You're joking. You and @Xavin both. Remember the Liruma War, when Spirit side had a clear side to back and Shadow players spent several RL days deliberating over whether or not to back the imps or ophidians, and Spirit had a massive head start in claiming territory because of it? Remember the Three Widow War, when many Bloodloch characters wanted to support the slavers, and Spinesreach spent a long time with an intense moral debate over why they should support the villagers instead? You weren't privy to any of this, but it was a big source of contention. This, once again, gave the Spirit players a head start. Remember after the War of Night when Abhorash absorbed Ati and became infused with the Shadowbound Taint? The Syssin looked into it, the lore was backed up by Severn, and we took action against the Dominion. It upset a lot of players, and it sparked all kinds of IC and OOC turmoil between orgs that were normally very close. It took years for us to recover, but now we've got the best relationship between orgs that I've seen in my five years playing. Don't lecture me about how easy Shadow has it or how we never have to make hard decisions. Don't whine at me about how the direction of the lore is tearing your communities apart. Deal with it like we did. EDIT: I'm not going to touch on being "handed" wins in events. What I'm getting at is that Shadow side has definitely had its own moral hurdles and debates to overcome, and yet we still manage to do well. If you want to win the culture wars IC, take action. Omei just opened up membership to Spinesreach and Bloodloch, but I don't see any outcry over it.
    You didn't get punished for any of these choices, best I'm aware. We do. All the time. unicorns, man, if we'd be given actual choices where we could in fact decide our own path without god damned prophets screeching in our ears I'd be all for it.

    Not to be a dick, but that's just a cop out and flat out false. A whole shadow guild recently got deleted from existence for the choices they made. If that's not punishment, what is? Spirit often times has plenty of actual choices that they COULD make, but time after time I see the same mundane, uncreative choices that are usually based on knee jerk reactions rather than well thought out, strategic planning. I've played both sides extensively, neither is perfect, and neither is at any disadvantage other than the ones they set for themselves. As someone who loves inter-tether intrigue and strife (in addition to the same old bland tether vs tether game) I'd love to see some more creativity on this side of the fence.

    The recent blurring of the line between dark and light with Bamathis and Omei is something I was really interested in and its not like I was the only one. I realize we have people that are hardliner shadow/spirit, and that's fine but for unicorns sake think about someone other than yourselves? Not everyone wants to play the cookie cutter beacon of light crusader or the creepy vampire villain in the shadows twisting his mustache. I'm not saying any of that to say this side is better than that, I'm saying it with the hopes of improvement. All it sounds like right now is one group of people that I don't even know or associate with, took it upon themselves to OOCly unicorns with in game events that affect a LOT more people than just their little clique or those they're really upset with.
    Post edited by Drystin on
    OonaghEscelika
  • HawaHawa Member Posts: 123 ✭✭✭
    edited May 13
    I dunno how it helps us to continue posting screenshots of (semi-)private discussions (edit: to be clear, I'm saying that to everyone posting screenshots). A lot of these are from an access-restricted channel explicitly called 'Venting' where people shoot off their mouths because they're frustrated. It releases pressure that might otherwise push them to even less constructive ways of dealing with things.

    Now, I see some of my comments posted above, and while they're put indelicately, I stand by the sentiments. They're things I've said repeatedly in one way or another in more public places, including the official Discord server. My frustrations about the situation with people pushing Albedi worship/acceptance isn't just about RP that I can act on ICly - it's also an emotional response to all the complaints about this massive point in the story (i.e. that opposition to the Albedi gods is a matter of our very existence) being made almost constantly by a handful of recently returning players in the official Discord. Your characters having their thoughts and feelings is fine. We can RP it out when and if our paths cross, and I'm not angry about there being IC disagreement. I find it immensely more frustrating to see the arguments taken OOC to the Discord when it's been made clear through the sudden, unilateral deletion of a thriving guild (and, although unrelated to me directly, a Shadow God/order - RIP Avareti) that any threat to Sapience is unacceptable. I find it immensely frustrating that months of rabble-rousing on the subject both OOC and IC seem to be met with nothing definitive because the storyline is halted by (insert resource-intensive project du jour).

    To be as clear and direct as possible: I'm frustrated that there've been no discernible consequences for your characters going against the grain. This is something I feel OOCly as someone who was pretty publicly swatted down, and it's something my character has every reason to care about, insofar as she's even aware, given her connection to my previous character.

    That said, I will only act on information I've obtained ICly. The most recent fracas started largely because I finally took the time to read Sibatti's description after a joking interaction in tells about nudity - this led to Hawa noting a detail, confronting Sibatti about it, and based on Sibatti's response, expressing distrust to a member of Duirani leadership. Other than bringing it up with leadership again the next day to ask what the result had been, this ended my involvement. I'm not trying to push anyone out of the game or out of an organization. While I may be frustrated and spout off angrily behind what I assumed were closed doors, I'm not playing to make anyone feel bad, even if I dislike or simply disagree with someone personally.
    (Congregation): Iosyne says, "I made a cup."

    Horkval are a feature...
    OonaghEscelikaTeani
  • SeirSeir Seein' All the Things Getting high off your emotionMember Posts: 992 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm kind of done with this thread.

    I've yet to see a single player apologize to one another. All I see is petty tribalism and people incapable of budging an inch to even realize that, "Hmm. Maybe I unicorns up."

    This is what I mean by this community being incredibly toxic. Some of you are grown unicorns adults, some of you even have children. It's this incapability of realizing that, whether you believe you are right or wrong, that potentially an apology is due. I'm not going to say who should apologize to who. You're all adults and should know when you done goofed.
    TetchtaKarhastLinNola
  • MephistolesMephistoles Member Posts: 254 ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 13
    @Hawa posting screenshots of conversations is totally useful if the point is to try to influence “public opinion”. If there is such a thing for the game. 

    The entire thread is a good reminder to not use discord in groups or to at least check who is in the channel. They’ll post your stuff on the forums after all.

    @Fezzix I totally think I have been called a white supremacist by the same people. Or maybe more players like to toss that around than I realized. 
    image
    Oonagh
This discussion has been closed.