The Reality of it all...

OonaghOonagh Member Posts: 387 ✭✭✭✭
edited May 12 in Echo Canyon
Hello Aetolians,

As many are well aware I am the player of Oonagh....those who frequent the forums can read of many of the things I have done during my tenure on numerous characters across many platforms and organizations. Recently though a dark splotch on the community has seemed to fester and I want to not only take accountability to speak of my actions as a player, but also those which persist that cant seem to shake the line that separates IC and OOC communications.

We have seen as a community many technological leaps since the early days of MUDs, back on Telnet...which to some of our players may be a foreign word. We have seen each other through schoolwork, finals, dating, addiction, marriages, and deaths. When I made Oonagh, it was after me being a historically volatile character was wearing upon me as a person OOC. I created Oonagh and kept his secret identity of me the player secret for upwards of two years.....I had very few problems, in fact Oonagh was beloved by many, encouraging, motivational, and informational. Never had any problems from any players....until it slowly spread who I was, then the community turned on me, comparisons to my previous characters began, and I was discounted as a player completely and as an IC role.

I began to feel the wear and tear that I felt in previous times, because for all intents and purposes there is a collection of a few players who in my....over a decade of playing, have dictated the course of the roleplay environment and if you are not part of that group, you are an outsider, and wrong and bad. Then an opportunity came up, a silver lining so to speak, and change began to happen, immersion came back...roleplay increased, and alot of fun began to happen as the roleplay environment began to diversify. The "old-guard" did not like this so much, and did as they do and began to strike at it with intent to destroy that which would provide change to a game that ultimately NEEDS the excitement many in it's playerbase crave. Because at the end of the day it is a game, with a world that is dynamic and should have change in it constantly, developments, things beyond it being a chatroom with fancy clothes and baubles. Things outside of the circle that provides comfort, because in a fantasy world, there needs to be risk, heartache, strife....not just comfortable happy fun times.

Then the comparisons came...the social justice...the outcry to destroy something different.
So deep and harsh.

Then the OOC attacks, the discounting of ones credit in game.
Novices reaching out IC for knowledge and information and making assessments...
While being told on Discord that you are not a great source of information

Discounted because someone does not agree with your particular brand of roleplay.

Then beyond that getting messages in discord from people you dont even know, who share chat exceprts with you saying that the aforementioned group of people are working actively to remove you and others who agree with you from organizations. Is it hearsay, I dont know....but the attitudes and messages relayed say as much. All while the producer sits back refusing to make an assessment on how this kind of environment is harming the game, and refusing to make an answer or even acknowledge your messages and those of many others who are reaching out for information.

I have been in plenty of IRE games, and no other administrative team would tolerate this kind of nonsense, in fact I find it absolutely cowardly that this persists, because purely alot of the old players that are the issue, are friends with volunteers and admins that couldnt be damned to moderate the Discord Server. I mean theres a few players that have went up and down in the pools so many times you would think they were a buoy.

They like to say that there is a modicum of confidentiality in the Aetolia pools, but really its just a rotating cast of the Old Guard that help their friends and have them join one anothers Order and continue the persistant nonsense that has perpetuated the toxic environment that has been allowed to fester in Aetolia for well over a decade.

Tiur inhereted this mess, and frankly, hes in over his head and I think he knows it.
In fact I think a good portion of the newer playerbase knows it, alongside some of us old players that have seen this go on for years and have been helpless to stop it.

If I get deleted for sharing my feelings, I get it.
I am just hopeful that some of you get to read it and realize that the end of the day its a business and they are going to try and silence it to cover their unicorns.

At least I wasn't afraid to speak from my heart. Anyone who knows me, knows that about me.
Oonagh has been slain by the might of the toxic atmosphere of Ulangi.
Post edited by Oonagh on
EhtiasBorminchiaTinaEscelikaIazamatSeirXavinRijettaTeaniCallidoraMartinauxArdentOemeria
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Comments

  • SeurimasSeurimas Member Posts: 98 ✭✭✭
    I tend to steer clear of OOC chatter and such, but I know that's not worth much if you're on the outs with people who are more OOC.

    Sucks to hear you're having these troubles. For what it's worth, I've appreciated your character's RP  presence, if only in the brief Lesser-related interactions we've had. I hope you can enjoy this wonderful game without OOC issues soon.
    OonaghXavinTeani
  • LinLin Blackbird The MoongladeMember Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭✭✭

    EscelikaOonaghMephistolesDarim
  • TetchtaTetchta Member Posts: 272 ✭✭✭



    OonaghDrystin
  • OonaghOonagh Member Posts: 387 ✭✭✭✭
    I mean, ill point out the elephant in the room.



    The fact this is a statement a good chunk of people can relate to, and understand without any proof of reference speaks loudly enough.
    Oonagh has been slain by the might of the toxic atmosphere of Ulangi.
  • TetchtaTetchta Member Posts: 272 ✭✭✭
    Oonagh said:

    I mean, ill point out the elephant in the room.



    The fact this is a statement a good chunk of people can relate to, and understand without any proof of reference speaks loudly enough.

    I kinda don't...super duper wanna comment on this, but I think the elephant in this room appears to be more that there's some sketchy metagaming going on, and I don't think sidestepping it in this way is the appropriate response.


  • LinLin Blackbird The MoongladeMember Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree that Kanivara made an obvious typo but I wouldn't call that the elephant in the room
    EscelikaDarim
  • EleneElene Member Posts: 180 ✭✭✭
    Even if I knew who you were playing on your past few characters, I don't think it has affected how I have gotten to know of Oonagh in the game! I think he is an absolutely hilarious enemy to work against, and the more I know about the character, I got rather impressed.

    Personally, while Discord has helped to make the small Aetolia community feel closer, I also understand how it can embolden people to cast aspersions without care, and how it can blur the lines between IC and OOC communications. It's a difficult boundary to toe; sometimes it is unwittingly crossed, and not everyone can keep the barrier. After all, it's easier to get information about stuff through mediums outside the game, than it may necessarily be to get it in it.

    About differences in roleplay, that's always not going to be easy to convince people to like it, at least IG. I've had this experience before a long time back, and it has always gotten some form of consequences that you may need to be willing to accept. I don't know how much of this experience that you're having has been influenced by OOC conversations though, and I really hope it hasn't been.

    I sincerely hope things look up for you sooner than later, and people think twice about stuff they want to use in-game.

    <3@Oonagh
    OonaghEscelikaArdent
  • CzciborCzcibor Member Posts: 122 ✭✭✭
    Ehtias said:

    I'm not going to lie, and I'm going to keep this short. Situations like these are kind of why I wish you had to retire your active character to go up to pools in all honesty. In any IRE I wish this was the case.

    I just want to say that as someone who is still relatively new to the Aetolia community and whose experiences in IRE have mostly been in another game, the OOC-IC line blurring is much more prevalent here. This is particularly true with the Pools where it feels like everyone who has played this game for long enough already knows who everyone in the Pools played as a mortal, with many current players still being in direct contact with some of them outside of in-game messages etc. Coming from a game where this is heavily frowned upon it is a bit baffling to me every time I hear about these things. Just as a very basic example that doesn't really even involve meta gaming, I have ranted to Keroc with messages, but I know there are players on both sides who talk directly to him on Discord etc.

    I don't think enforcing retirement is a good thing, but I do think that more distance in general would be healthy. Even if I trust the volunteers to be on the up and up, I honestly don't trust the playerbase to not abuse this relationship and use anything they hear from the Pools to metagame.
    OonaghTetchtaEscelikaZaila
  • SeirSeir Seein' All the Things Getting high off your emotionMember Posts: 992 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 13
    I'd rather not have this be flipped on the dur Naya players. What they choose to do in their RP circle is their business. While I've had my criticisms of the dur Naya in the past when they were largely inaccessible and primarily amongst themselves while in leadership, that evaporated when they stepped down. Hell, even Pilar admitted that it was a legitimate criticism and that they should've done more outward facing stuff. That being said, metagaming isn't cool nor does any of what they do amongst themselves justify it. They're good roleplayers and I'm happy when I get a chance to roleplay with them.

    The recent criticism of dur Naya has stemmed largely from the ridiculous extremes that people in Duiran and the Sentinels have gone to defend Bamathis worship. A God that literally has the God of Artifice, which both orgs stand opposed to, as an Order representative. He is solidly aligned with Shadow -- and yet he's the only Shadow God allowed a shrine in Duiran, and people have gone to really meta lengths to protect him. The dur Naya, including myself, rightly called this out in Sentinel news posts.

    Point is: Bamathis is not a neutral God. He's not even the closest thing that Shadow HAS to a neutral God. Even the one that IS closest to a neutral God has been banned from Duiran and the Sentinels. Y'all who are Duiran folks in his Order should've known that a day would eventually come where you'd have to choose.
    TetchtaDrystinOonaghEscelikaMephistolesArdent
  • CzciborCzcibor Member Posts: 122 ✭✭✭
    edited May 13
    As an aside, as someone who is in Duiran, I have actually heard almost nothing about this Bamathis/Albedi worship in game. In fact, everything I have heard from either side has been on Discord, including from ex-Celani. Now, whether that just means it is happening in game behind closed doors or it is actually that both sides are actually just playing it out on Discord, I don't know. Not saying my character's opinion is worth anything, or that he even has an opinion about this, but it's strange to me that nothing has actually reached my character even though both sides claim they have so much support for.
    EscelikaDarim
  • OonaghOonagh Member Posts: 387 ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 13
    I also just want to clarify a little bit...since only part of that conversation got posted and likely interpreted incorrectly...



    The part @Lin posted above was a facetious comment made to Fezzix, in which he asked what was going on.
    Nothing was acted on in game based on any of this on my regard at least.
    As I said above the conversation from someone saying OOCly Lin and Sibatti were having issues with Bamathis, and I was just being a turd....cause turds be turds.
    I also just had a long chat with @Seir that clarified the potential mis-interpretation.

    I want to let you know @Sibatti - In your time from when I first started playing, up to current...
    You have been one of the most consistent and strongest Roleplayers I have had the experience of interacting with. People enjoy your company, and your interactions.
    I ...in "big brain time and plotting" wanted to think of ways I could ...legitimately roleplay combatting your RP, because lets face it, im a series of ellipsis and croaks. It was bound to happen and it didnt, and then the whole unfortunate and terribly unnecessary discussion about nazis, and what have you came about. \
    (That is a whole other can of worms I was thankfully not present for)

    Lets not mis-interpret....what people want us to hear or think. There is enough of that going around.
    I invite you to reach out to me and chat, I think I owe you enough to hear your perspective and share honestly what I have been experiencing through this whole interesting arc as well.
    Not even an IC chat, we can just legitimately chat as two players who have had very different stories.
    Oonagh has been slain by the might of the toxic atmosphere of Ulangi.
  • EleneElene Member Posts: 180 ✭✭✭
    Czcibor said:

    Ehtias said:

    I'm not going to lie, and I'm going to keep this short. Situations like these are kind of why I wish you had to retire your active character to go up to pools in all honesty. In any IRE I wish this was the case.

    I don't think enforcing retirement is a good thing, but I do think that more distance in general would be healthy. Even if I trust the volunteers to be on the up and up, I honestly don't trust the playerbase to not abuse this relationship and use anything they hear from the Pools to metagame.
    I think anyone who comes down from the Pools should have a mandated waiting period before they are allowed back onto their mortal characters. A minimum of a few RL months, perhaps, to ensure whatever they learn while up there can't be used when they hop back onto their mortal characters.
    OonaghEscelikaDarim
  • PhoeneciaPhoenecia The Merchant of Esterport Somewhere in AtticaMember Posts: 778 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 13
    A large part of the Duiran support of Bamathis frustration is that there's been opposition to it for months, and repeated asking of various Spirit for some kind of support, which has been super inconsistent and waffling. Even more frustrating? About two years ago when I, Maizin, and Eowyn were Speakers, there was a leadership town hall of sorts with Tiur and the Celani overseeing stuff going on in Duiran, and we were discussing Duiran's role and its intended stance. Want to know what we were told? 'Yeah, Shadow is bad, and you guys should be firmly against it because it corrupts Dendara, and the gods on Duiran's council are pretty hard line against it.' This was reinforced with a bunch of RP from Dhar at the time, and a lot of haranguing from Rhydderch, the resident lore dump NPC at the Core. Fast forward to two years later, and suddenly supporting Shadow gods in such a heavy capacity is totally fine, and all that town hall discussion has been completely overturned.

    On the player level... Sorry, Iesid, but it's not as clean a sweep as you believe. There's been more than a few complaints about your handling of things and your treatment of other players, particularly ones that haven't agreed with you. It's been brought up repeatedly that you're unapproachable and dismissive, and it's made people afraid of voicing objections because the result often tends to be to make things so unpleasant until they're made to want to leave. No one speaks up because many players have been conditioned to believe nothing will be done because nothing HAS been done. 

    You know how people people used to criticize the dur Nayas for being distant and unapproachable? That's kind of how Mulariads are regarded now. Distant, unapproachable, and if you voice dissent, your days are severely numbered. This has been the case multiple times as the experience of various players can attest. 

    People are frustrated and fed up because we feel our hands our tied, and feel like no one is listening when we ask. And when we do ask, how disheartening is it where you're just given a shrug and told to put up with it? How many people have stopped playing or just gone on to play Shadow side? How many are close to quitting playing now because they feel like they're unable to make a stand? Because honestly, the current environment feels like you're not given the time of day unless you're firmly on the Bama Bandwagon. Appearances matter a lot in a game like this, especially when we can't see the full story or full scope. 
    OonaghMephistolesEscelikaSanirRhineCzciborTinaAloliDarim
  • EscelikaEscelika Member Posts: 70 ✭✭✭
    edited May 13
    @Phoenecia I'm going to disagree with you on those points. The exact opposite of everything you just said is true from my 50 day experience with Duiran. Bamathis has been supported by just about anyone I brought it up to, as a newbie seeking a Divine. Iesid and Oonagh have both been open and responsive to questions and requests, even giving a relative newbie the opportunity to serve as a Minister.

    Who are you talking about? How do you know this while not being apart of a city? Who are the frustrated people?

    The language you used in this post is also exaggerating things and ignoring context by not stating it. If you have examples of being ignored, disregarded, days being numbered, and all the other claims in your post. If this has happened multiple times and players can attest to it, I would like to hear the full story as well.

    EDIT: I'm not trying to attack Phoenecia, I'm just curious what she's talking about and want more information.

    I don't see a bandwagon. His purpose is pretty straightforward and aligns well with Duiran's goals. It aligns with everyone's goals, none of us wants to see our world die.

    EDIT: EDIT:
    I don't think this topic is about Bamathis or Duiran. Instead, I think this topic is being used to muddy the waters further and cement a narrative that just isn't true. There was roleplay behind this; just because it did not happen in front of you does not mean it did not happen. The path to resolving our conflict of opinion or lack of understanding is more roleplay, not a riot on Discord that is perpetuated in part by non-Duirani bystanders. It's important to remember that Aetolia's environment is inherently reliant on a collaborative effort that responds to everyone's notions or actions, not the fan fiction or 'ideal model' you personally have in mind for what the game's story should be.


    This is the part I agreed with the most.
    CallidoraOonaghDarim
  • KarhastKarhast EnorianMember Posts: 132 ✭✭✭
    I (unsurprisingly) have some very strong thoughts about the entire Bamathis matter, but it is a bit of a derail for this thread. Please do message me sometime, @Escelika, if you're curious about a further persppective on the matter. As it stands, I think more than a few people here are being a tad disingenuous, and that this thread has been mishandled by the community after some five or so posts in. 
    ElenePhoeneciaDarimHaven
  • XavinXavin Member Posts: 1,532 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 13
    I think Aishia has a very good point. Why is it that time after time, again and again, Duiran and Enorian are presented with 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' scenarios as part of events? Why is it that we keep getting events where the options presented to us are 'do this thing that goes against the belief structure of your org, or change your org's belief structure to fit this other option' and then no matter what is done it blows up in our faces? How many times over the past decade has Duiran or Enorian had an event where the players stuck to their guns and did what has been pounded into them since 2008 or earlier only to be punished for it or have the event blow up because an admin wanted it to go a certain way so an npc light the fuse?

    There are valid arguments for and against Bamathis. But you can't fault players or characters for being skeptical when they take the past into account. If Bamathis was always intended to be a neutral god that the whole playerbase should be getting behind, merging -just- Severn's order into Bamathis', explicitly listing him as a Shadow god, and making high ranking members of Severn's order, as well as Severn himself, representatives was probably not the best way to do it. And then there is the lack of buy in on Spirit side due to the fact that Spirit's gods are absent at worst or unwilling to publicly state the direction they want their orgs to go in.

    If this is the new direction for Aetolia, that's all fine and good, but it needs substantial backing from admin both oocly and icly in the form of active godshells reinforcing the direction it needs to go. Right now? It's a bit of a freaking mess, quite similar to the mess that was Slyphe having mixed tether order members. And there are still people who are mad about how that was resolved.

    Edit: I'm just going to add that I don't have a horse in the game re. right or wrong behavior on the part of players. I'm largely trying to stay out of that. I view this whole situation with Bamathis and worship of Albedi gods as the responsibility of the admin team. The players can only work with and react to what they are given.

    Edit 2: I also want to say, regarding any accusations of metagaming, please -please- remember that just because you haven't seen the roleplay doesn't mean that it hasn't or isn't happening. I don't think people going out of their way oocly to stomp on other is something that happens nearly as often as we might think.
    Post edited by Xavin on

    PhoeneciaKarhastDarimEscelikaMjollRijetta
  • AishiaAishia Queen Bee Member Posts: 2,271 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Breaking my heart.
    Ardent
  • SeurimasSeurimas Member Posts: 98 ✭✭✭
    Duiran and Enorian are presented with 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' scenarios as part of events


    That just really seems like a Good and Light kind of problem, to me. Because the Dark and Evil just burn the village down and call it a day. Or grapple with the price of the Power they sought and turn Good.
    OonaghDarimEscelikaRijetta
  • XavinXavin Member Posts: 1,532 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Seurimas said:

    Duiran and Enorian are presented with 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' scenarios as part of events


    That just really seems like a Good and Light kind of problem, to me. Because the Dark and Evil just burn the village down and call it a day. Or grapple with the price of the Power they sought and turn Good.
    You aren't wrong. But it smacks of the old "Lol I'm going to present the party's Paladin with a situation that is engineered to make them fall no matter what they do" sort of crap that D&D game masters who think they're clever like to pull. Good guys having bad consequences from being good guys is fine some of the time. But honestly, it feels like it happens damn near every time here.

    ArdentKarhastEscelikaRijettaNola
This discussion has been closed.