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Re: The Midnight Age?
The things you are calling 'real life political garbage' or 'baggage' is something that you can easily set aside because you don't experience it. Your examples of your baggage like 'shitty job, shitty relationship, your hatred of people that don't understand why you love drinking Whiteclaw' aren't necessarily comparable to 'you are a subhuman and don't deserve to exist' which is what I'm saying I experience from members of this community. Does that get through to you? Your privilege is making this invisible to you, you're explicitly asking for minorities to sit down and shut up because thinking about them is too much work for you.
Xarian
6
Re: The Midnight Age?
Who's been shitting up my web while I've been away? I need to know who to mock ceaselessly until they change or go away, please.
Mjoll
9
Re: The Midnight Age?
Slavery is part and parcel of a lot of fantasy settings and it's a large part of most historical human societies.
I can understand how adult topics such as violence, sex, smoking, drug use or slavery can be sensitive topics but that is why we have trigger warnings on shows, games and books.
If you're put off by drug use or Scottish people then you know not to watch trainspotting. You don't ask for trainspotting to remove all references to drugs and Scottish people.
I can understand how adult topics such as violence, sex, smoking, drug use or slavery can be sensitive topics but that is why we have trigger warnings on shows, games and books.
If you're put off by drug use or Scottish people then you know not to watch trainspotting. You don't ask for trainspotting to remove all references to drugs and Scottish people.
Iadra
5
Re: The Midnight Age?
When I started playing, you could get PKed by BL city/house/guild leaders for saying or doing the wrong thing and it was great because it really immersed me in that side of the game. You are playing the undead/shadow/vampires so why would you be nice? We are the bad guys. We do bad things. But at the same time, whenever I spoke with any of these players OOC they were always the nicest and most helpful people and always went out of their way to help you get into the game, be it with understanding that side of the roleplay or dealing with combat etc.
Now it is hard to play this kind of more brutal character because people get turned off from it so quickly and easily or get offended by that kind of roleplay and it feels like Bloodloch has lost most of its culture due to this. And don't get me started on how we let the living join Bloodloch now...
Now it is hard to play this kind of more brutal character because people get turned off from it so quickly and easily or get offended by that kind of roleplay and it feels like Bloodloch has lost most of its culture due to this. And don't get me started on how we let the living join Bloodloch now...
Fyrren
6
Re: The Midnight Age?
While we don't actively watch/police/moderate webs, please issue (yourself if you want to keep it anonymous) if you notice hate speech in any form of in-game communication, even if OOC. There are lines that are not acceptable to cross in Aetolia.
Tedrunai
16
Re: Voting for Aetolia
Hi, just a quick reminder/bump/PSA that voting for Aetolia exists! You can click here to do so.
There was a lot of feedback about a lack of events, and I'd like to think we've picked up on that front! Between Bloodloch's war, a variety of mini interactions in Enorian, Omei's mobiles seemingly always being responsive, prophetic screaming, and a terrorizing music box that draws you into it to kill you (all within the past few weeks!) we've been conscientious about trying to make Aetolia feel a bit more alive.
Granted, everyone seemed to have different ideas about what constitutes valid events and Aetolia feeling alive, but I'd like to think we hit the criteria of at least a few people!
Bonus PSA: You can also EXPRESS ESTEEM FOR POOLS, or EXPRESS ESTEEM FOR , and it doesn't require one nor use up one of daily esteem votes!
It makes such a huge difference to see an encouraging esteem come in for the crew, I can't possibly emphasize that enough.
We've been in a bit of a holding pattern of "Big blowup about thing X" -> work to address thing X -> silence -> "Big blowup about thing Y" -> rinse and repeat, and while that's just the nature of the beast to an extent, positive words every now and then make it much easier to maintain the motivation and healthy headspace. If you see something you like, let us know! The little dopamine rush associated with the esteem and what we did is guaranteed to make us want to do a lot more of whatever it was that was well-received.
Ok that's all thank you back to flavor text writing and working on a mysterious cult.
There was a lot of feedback about a lack of events, and I'd like to think we've picked up on that front! Between Bloodloch's war, a variety of mini interactions in Enorian, Omei's mobiles seemingly always being responsive, prophetic screaming, and a terrorizing music box that draws you into it to kill you (all within the past few weeks!) we've been conscientious about trying to make Aetolia feel a bit more alive.
Granted, everyone seemed to have different ideas about what constitutes valid events and Aetolia feeling alive, but I'd like to think we hit the criteria of at least a few people!
Bonus PSA: You can also EXPRESS ESTEEM FOR POOLS, or EXPRESS ESTEEM FOR , and it doesn't require one nor use up one of daily esteem votes!
It makes such a huge difference to see an encouraging esteem come in for the crew, I can't possibly emphasize that enough.
We've been in a bit of a holding pattern of "Big blowup about thing X" -> work to address thing X -> silence -> "Big blowup about thing Y" -> rinse and repeat, and while that's just the nature of the beast to an extent, positive words every now and then make it much easier to maintain the motivation and healthy headspace. If you see something you like, let us know! The little dopamine rush associated with the esteem and what we did is guaranteed to make us want to do a lot more of whatever it was that was well-received.
Ok that's all thank you back to flavor text writing and working on a mysterious cult.
Brax
12
Re: The Midnight Age?
It feels like there's a weird disconnect here that I'm not grasping. I have no issue exploring dark RP, just as Sryaen said, it comes real easy to me and, though Aisling experiences consequences IC, I've never had someone OOC be upset with me for exploring them. She's a former Consanguine, she did the whole cull a village and bathe in their blood, thinking mortals are beneath her and are no better than animals, etc. Like, the full experience. The people I explored this with were comfortable with these themes. The people around me who were not comfortable with those themes were people I avoided, and they avoided me, not out of some anger or OOC discontent, but because we weren't fun for each other!
What's the point trying to be made? That I should have the right to impose this RP on these people? That they shouldn't get to stop me from forcing them into a room to RP with me?
Or is it that people are OOC mad at you for doing something away from them in your RP? Is that a thing happening? It doesn't happen in my circles, or even the wider circles in Spirit side, at the very least. Aisling still does questionable things, and while I've received backlash IC, which was fair and fun to handle, I've never had someone try to apply those OOC to me.
Are you guys sure it's not a reflection of OOC stuff? I've had alts in Shadow, I see slurs in webs, I see real nasty stuff being said about players OOC, including that "noose that f*****" comment. That's not RP, and it's not IC. Really consider if you guys are the people involved in these exchanges and if that may be the reason why there's some backlash or general avoidance of you OOC because of it.
I haven't seen anyone be OOC mad at characters for being pro-slavery and pro-torture IC. I've seen characters be mad at them for that, which is fair play, and you can avoid this experience by avoiding the characters that'd clearly have an issue with it. I've seen players be mad OOC because other players are being intensely cruel to other players for stuff like sexual orientation, color, gender, etc. I can't blame them for avoiding players that do that stuff. Surely, you'd want to avoid players that do it, too.
As for the Bamathis thing, the player of the God himself said that it wasn't stepping away due to backlash. This is all speculation on our parts. It was in poor taste, in my opinion, though I'll repeat a point made earlier.
The same players being very defensive over the matter are the players I've personally seen be comfortable with slurs in webs, and saying some real nasty stuff OOC. Maybe consider how these things mesh together.
RP is a group activity, it's a social activity. It's never going to be just what you want to do, and it's always going to involve other people, with their own tastes and feelings. Having fun, fulfilling, engaging RP fully depends on being aware of who you're with, if they mesh with you, and if they want to play ball with you! If they don't want to play ball with you, you cannot force them. If it feels like the entire game is struggling to "delve deeper into darker RP", consider why it is that no one else wants to play ball with the darker RP you're putting out, and what might be causing this from both an IC and OOC perspective.
What's the point trying to be made? That I should have the right to impose this RP on these people? That they shouldn't get to stop me from forcing them into a room to RP with me?
Or is it that people are OOC mad at you for doing something away from them in your RP? Is that a thing happening? It doesn't happen in my circles, or even the wider circles in Spirit side, at the very least. Aisling still does questionable things, and while I've received backlash IC, which was fair and fun to handle, I've never had someone try to apply those OOC to me.
Are you guys sure it's not a reflection of OOC stuff? I've had alts in Shadow, I see slurs in webs, I see real nasty stuff being said about players OOC, including that "noose that f*****" comment. That's not RP, and it's not IC. Really consider if you guys are the people involved in these exchanges and if that may be the reason why there's some backlash or general avoidance of you OOC because of it.
I haven't seen anyone be OOC mad at characters for being pro-slavery and pro-torture IC. I've seen characters be mad at them for that, which is fair play, and you can avoid this experience by avoiding the characters that'd clearly have an issue with it. I've seen players be mad OOC because other players are being intensely cruel to other players for stuff like sexual orientation, color, gender, etc. I can't blame them for avoiding players that do that stuff. Surely, you'd want to avoid players that do it, too.
As for the Bamathis thing, the player of the God himself said that it wasn't stepping away due to backlash. This is all speculation on our parts. It was in poor taste, in my opinion, though I'll repeat a point made earlier.
The same players being very defensive over the matter are the players I've personally seen be comfortable with slurs in webs, and saying some real nasty stuff OOC. Maybe consider how these things mesh together.
RP is a group activity, it's a social activity. It's never going to be just what you want to do, and it's always going to involve other people, with their own tastes and feelings. Having fun, fulfilling, engaging RP fully depends on being aware of who you're with, if they mesh with you, and if they want to play ball with you! If they don't want to play ball with you, you cannot force them. If it feels like the entire game is struggling to "delve deeper into darker RP", consider why it is that no one else wants to play ball with the darker RP you're putting out, and what might be causing this from both an IC and OOC perspective.
Aisling
10
Re: The Midnight Age?
At one point I played an ebil Aetolian, so I'll chime in.
These sentences in particular interested me, and I want to unpack them.
What are some other possible ways to read this sentence?
Whose 'real life baggage' are you asking someone to put aside when you ask the 'Other' player to stop being so sensitive about slavery? Are there any members of society, your fellow players, to whom it seems incorrect to tell them 'it's just a fantasy' in regards to slavery? Think for a moment, who might belong to that group.
Obviously this sort of criticism doesn't apply only to slavery. So maybe you want to ask, 'Oh my god Xarian, do you and Joe Biden's cancel culture agenda want to remove everything problematic from the game?' Well, no, not necessarily. But maybe the people least worth listening to about problematic issues are the ones who have the privilege of not having to deal with them in real life. So I'm going to stop talking about slavery, which has little to do with my lived experience, and talk about homophobia instead.
I wasn't here for any of Bamathis, but I think it's pretty easy to see how it's based on Nazism? I really want to focus on the latter sentence though, because I've seen a lot of times when our community 'stood by silently and allowed it' and I think it's interesting who is outraged about what. When someone says in an OOC context that they're gonna 'noose that f****t' and the reactions range between 1) laughter or 2) people 'stood by silently and allowed it' is that more or less abhorrent than playing an, at the very least, Nazi-adjacent god? This is directed at myself as well, there have been many times when I stood by silently and allowed it when I saw my friends say bigoted things. I'm sure I've said some too, unfortunately.
I was pretty intent on about coming back 3-4 months ago. I was excited by how many old names and general activity I saw when I logged in, I got pumped up about coding a system again, I regrettably splurged on a bunch of credits, etc. However, I've seen an uncomfortable number of slurs in darkweb, and they're a big part of why I'm disenchanted with playing Xarian. Looking at the people agreeing with some of the posts here, they aren't who I think of when I think of 'good, interesting roleplayers.' They aren't people who I think of as deeply concerned with the RP atmosphere of Aetolia, but weirdly they are some of those using the slurs. Again, it's interesting to see who gets outraged by what. A lot of real life bigotry gets a pass in Aetolia, and that seems especially true in darkweb for whatever reason. This is hugely disappointing to me, especially from people that I saw as friends when I was younger. I still see you as friends, but we all need to work on ourselves.
If your real self is comfortable telling other people to leave slavery, homophobia, and other forms of 'baggage' 'at the door' in the context of enjoying their hobby, maybe a fun roleplay exercise would be to imagine playing someone more considerate than that.
The interesting part about exploring evil in a game isn't to simply to reproduce the evil existing in real life, except with your character in the drivers seat.
'I come here to fantasize a different world. Slaves are a sensitive subject in America, but slaves are real in Aetolia.'
'Lets get back to the roots of what roleplay and immersion are and do our best to leave our real life baggage at the door when we login to this game.'
'Its not a fair expectation to ask those around you to tip toe around your feelings. Its borderline insane though to expect people to tip toe around your feelings while they're playing a fictional character in a fictional universe'
'Bamathis was equated to fascism and Nazi-ism and the volunteer was likewise personally attacked. While that was abhorrant, what was even more disgusting was that a huge portion of our community stood by silently and allowed it.'
'Lets get back to the roots of what roleplay and immersion are and do our best to leave our real life baggage at the door when we login to this game.'
'Its not a fair expectation to ask those around you to tip toe around your feelings. Its borderline insane though to expect people to tip toe around your feelings while they're playing a fictional character in a fictional universe'
'Bamathis was equated to fascism and Nazi-ism and the volunteer was likewise personally attacked. While that was abhorrant, what was even more disgusting was that a huge portion of our community stood by silently and allowed it.'
These sentences in particular interested me, and I want to unpack them.
'Slaves are a sensitive subject in America, but slaves are real in Aetolia'
What are some other possible ways to read this sentence?
'Slaves [aren't real] in America, but slaves are real in Aetolia'
'Slaves are a sensitive subject in America, but slaves [should exist] in Aetolia [and nothing should be read into why I'm so adamant about this]'
'Slaves are a sensitive subject in America, [and I can use the pretense of talking about a fantasy game to own the libs]'
'Slaves are a sensitive subject in America, but slaves [should exist] in Aetolia [and nothing should be read into why I'm so adamant about this]'
'Slaves are a sensitive subject in America, [and I can use the pretense of talking about a fantasy game to own the libs]'
Whose 'real life baggage' are you asking someone to put aside when you ask the 'Other' player to stop being so sensitive about slavery? Are there any members of society, your fellow players, to whom it seems incorrect to tell them 'it's just a fantasy' in regards to slavery? Think for a moment, who might belong to that group.
Obviously this sort of criticism doesn't apply only to slavery. So maybe you want to ask, 'Oh my god Xarian, do you and Joe Biden's cancel culture agenda want to remove everything problematic from the game?' Well, no, not necessarily. But maybe the people least worth listening to about problematic issues are the ones who have the privilege of not having to deal with them in real life. So I'm going to stop talking about slavery, which has little to do with my lived experience, and talk about homophobia instead.
'Bamathis was equated to fascism and Nazi-ism and the volunteer was likewise personally attacked. While that was abhorrant, what was even more disgusting was that a huge portion of our community stood by silently and allowed it.'
I wasn't here for any of Bamathis, but I think it's pretty easy to see how it's based on Nazism? I really want to focus on the latter sentence though, because I've seen a lot of times when our community 'stood by silently and allowed it' and I think it's interesting who is outraged about what. When someone says in an OOC context that they're gonna 'noose that f****t' and the reactions range between 1) laughter or 2) people 'stood by silently and allowed it' is that more or less abhorrent than playing an, at the very least, Nazi-adjacent god? This is directed at myself as well, there have been many times when I stood by silently and allowed it when I saw my friends say bigoted things. I'm sure I've said some too, unfortunately.
I was pretty intent on about coming back 3-4 months ago. I was excited by how many old names and general activity I saw when I logged in, I got pumped up about coding a system again, I regrettably splurged on a bunch of credits, etc. However, I've seen an uncomfortable number of slurs in darkweb, and they're a big part of why I'm disenchanted with playing Xarian. Looking at the people agreeing with some of the posts here, they aren't who I think of when I think of 'good, interesting roleplayers.' They aren't people who I think of as deeply concerned with the RP atmosphere of Aetolia, but weirdly they are some of those using the slurs. Again, it's interesting to see who gets outraged by what. A lot of real life bigotry gets a pass in Aetolia, and that seems especially true in darkweb for whatever reason. This is hugely disappointing to me, especially from people that I saw as friends when I was younger. I still see you as friends, but we all need to work on ourselves.
'I've always considered the best RPers to be people who are playing characters that are drastically different from their real selves'
If your real self is comfortable telling other people to leave slavery, homophobia, and other forms of 'baggage' 'at the door' in the context of enjoying their hobby, maybe a fun roleplay exercise would be to imagine playing someone more considerate than that.
The interesting part about exploring evil in a game isn't to simply to reproduce the evil existing in real life, except with your character in the drivers seat.
Xarian
11
Re: The Midnight Age?
I think this is one of the reasons why expanding the concept of open PK areas would be good. Create an area that characters from Bloodloch could raid for slaves and that characters from Enorian could defend, and enforce 1v1 like the Hunting Grounds so that it doesn't turn into a numbers game like foci and the Orrery do.
The Vortex, the Fracture, the Sect, and the Hunting Grounds are a very good structure for conflict. The basic concept just needs to be developed a little more and spiced up to make it more interesting. The rewards don't need to be mechanical. Rewards that enable RP without having any other tangible benefit would be great.
The Vortex, the Fracture, the Sect, and the Hunting Grounds are a very good structure for conflict. The basic concept just needs to be developed a little more and spiced up to make it more interesting. The rewards don't need to be mechanical. Rewards that enable RP without having any other tangible benefit would be great.
Legyn
7
Re: The Midnight Age?
"So are we trying to build a Midnight Age where everyone gets along?" No, I'm trying to build a game in which players can all feel comfortable and safe exploring what they want to roleplay--nothing more, nothing less.Jhin said:You playing a "dark" character does not exempt you from considering this other person, as much as PKing someone does not exempt you from considering that other person (hence the issue system), and as much as roleplay does not inherently staunch you playing a "dark" character or having OOC compassion! Why are these being conflated!@Mati I mostly agree with you Mati but I feel lines are blurred in some areas. You mentioned a "dark" character doesn't exempt you from considering the other person as in showing OOC compassion. But, how often do people conflate the ideas of OOC compassion and likability. In real life not everyone will show you compassion and in real life not everyone will like you. So are we trying to build a Midnight Age where everyone gets along? While I believe you should consider the person you're RPing or even PKing with. How far does consideration go? Some people believe if you do something that they don't like, you didn't consider them. So is the expectation in Aetolia to do what everyone likes otherwise you're not considering others? I don't think anyone would want to exist in that environment. Which honestly brings up a topic of freedom of expression. In Aetolia are you free to RP based on your imagination or is your RP restricted by what people like and dislike? These types of issues in my opinion have made conflict in Aetolia less free. What funny to me is how someone will issue and won't ignore. If the problem is that big to where you have to involve the admin in an Issue. Why not just ignore them? Actually there's an idea if you issue someone, it forces you to ignore them for however amount of time. The two individuals obviously cant handle issues by communicating so they might as well ignore one another.
"How far does that consideration go?" As far as it needs to for like, basic human decency that should frankly also exist irl. Why is irl being made the benchmark when it's also pretty clear that people have the same issues there. I'm not sure why we're pretending that consideration is some kind of burden to carry when it should kind of be your basic operating mode when playing in a Multi-User Dungeon. If it's not, that's on you, not on me for wanting it. We coexist in this space. Like it or not, other peoples' enjoyment of it and engagement kind of affect your own. Again, it truly is not some huge immersion-breaking thing to just shoot a quick "Hey, are you comfortable with x?" I've done it many times. I've had it done to me. If anything, if you try it, you might actually find yourself more apt to find new and exciting lines of RP because you know the other person is down for whatever and actually having fun with it too.
"In Aetolia are you free to RP based on your imagination or is your RP restricted by what people like and dislike?" Again, false conflation. You are free to roleplay your imagination, but other people are not obligated to like it, and they're certainly not obligated to tolerate it when it draws from IRL lines of bigotry and discrimination. Honestly, that's just lazy RP at that point. But if you're REALLY itching to roleplay that, I guarantee there are people out there for that, too, and you will probably be much happier playing with them than inflicting it on people that it distresses oocly.
"The two individuals obviously can't handle issues by communicating so they might as well ignore one another." Absolutely! That's what I mean when I say if you're wanting to roleplay certain "edgier" themes, find other people with similar ideals for your sandbox. They exist, I promise. And it is not always a personal attack on you if your roleplay doesn't jive with mine. Unless, like, it's literally a personal attack on my identity as a person just trying to play this game and have fun. Which, also again, then we have bigger problems here. Like why are we arguing for people to be able to have fascist/racist/sexist/whetever-ist roleplay without consequence. That should always have consequence, much like irl.
Your freedom to express yourself and have fun ends when it infringes upon my freedom to express myself and have fun.
Mati
8