Best Of

Playing in Iron Man, then getting chased around vortex until I have to qq. Thanks Iesid.

Don't bash in open pk zones if you don't want PK'd.

Edit: Also Iron Man sucks. If I competed in my normal rank, I would still be at top 5 with much more XP than I got. There's no incentive to it, and it only provides a really easy target for you to get ganked given you have half health, 2 celerity, and no artist.

There's definitely an incentive--had I not hoarded chocolates and other buffs in advance for the GH, I totally would've done Iron Man. The incentive is that it's a smaller pool of people bashing, your chance is a lot higher to place, and you are going to see skill and strategy shine a lot more given that there's no buffs or arties allowed.

whirran & other members of bamathis's order have been shrine dusting (omei, haern, ethne, damariel) for weeks post-ceasefire, raising shrines in the ithmias and other parts of duiran's sphere where it is explicitly clear that they aren't welcome & whirran specifically has been shouting about killing people who criticize his god pretty consistently (not to mention actually killing some of them), + now we're coming across a bunch of murdered albedi worshippers set up as warnings and one literally put up outside a citizen's house as a threat, and i'll give you one guess about who the obvious assumed culprit is IC

and i'm hesitant to believe whirran isn't enjoying himself with the conflict, or else why would he keep doing it?

all of these are valid ic actions, to be clear. do it. but...

it's a little weird to push the narrative of wanting people to embrace rp consequences (for vortex pk rofl) but then argue about consequences for much more concrete rp actions. if bama's order (or certain members of it) doesn't want conflict, stop pushing it? there are valid approaches to playing an agent of strife that don't involve antagonizing literally everyone you can at the same time. If they do want conflict, but want something more organized and set between themselves and one other order specifically, battlefields exist (please use battlefields, they're a spectacular system with in-built ways to handle numerical advantages). if they just want open conflict then i don't really see the reason for complaint. if other members want less conflict, they should be, IC, pressuring the members of their order antagonizing people IC to chill out, because whirran for example has not made a secret of it.

all that said, i don't disagree that things should be more clear to someone why they're dying when they die and this is where doing things like emoting comes into play. but you really have to know your audience with this because half the game's playerbase is just going to run away and pat themselves on the back (and who can blame them when for literal years we've had people ganking wordlessly? this is not a one person problem) or they're just going to walk past you on accident because we're all busy people.

re: Iesid's character, I literally watched him call Bamathis an oathbreaker to His face and get brain splattered like a month before Farsai because the characters have a long history of dislike for each other after Iesid allowed Bama worship in Duiran during his stint as Voice. Recent IG happenings have only made this divide more clear.

as far as ganking vortex, i don't bother unless it's someone who actively ganks places like fracture or vortex, b/c you've clearly shown yourself to be willing to participate. but they're Open PK areas for a reason, and taking cause out of them to kill people who ganked you is such an obvious no (literally read help vortex specifics all the way through) that i don't really see why that has to be addressed any further. it's a plain and clear rule break, you know what you're doing, i know what you're doing, it's not subtle, don't double down on it lmao.

I'm replying to things as I read them:

[...]
Ultimately our specific argument boils down to me not agreeing with you feeling like you have 'carte blanche' on members of Bamathis' order and/or congregation when outside of normal avenues of conflict. [...]

I'm kind of confused here. We've all watched anywhere from 3-6 people routinely gangbang Whirran at literally any time of the day for nothing more than "It's my RP" - even just trying to hold sermons. Are you really posting about this?

These are both uncharitable descriptions of what a few Spirit characters are doing - and I feel as if you are describing it that way on purpose. Let me take all the nuance out of this so that people can stop being disingenuous:

We do not have 'carte blanche' - 'carte blanche' would be rolling up and killing them in any bashing area during the Great Hunt because 'they're our enemy and it's our RP'.

We are attacking them only when they actively do Bamathis Things (raising shrines, holding sermons, etc) and only WHILE THEY ARE ACTUALLY IN THE ACT (Whirran's basically Always In The Act). There's miles of difference that you are turning a blind eye to strictly for the sake of argument and I think that's kinda strange. There is derision in the way you utilize the phrase "it's my RP" - as if you do not believe, for one minute, that someone can roleplay being opposed to a god.

If you 'value a well-crafted emote', it makes no sense to me that you can't see the difference between your portrayal of what my character does and what he actually does.

Or it could go back to RP justifications, based on earlier discussions in this thread.

Vortex is just a convenient OPEN PK zone.

Vortex is a convenient Open PK zone where the conflict/motivation must remain in there. We all get ganked in open PK zones. Nobody gets sore about it and tries to take it outside of those zones - and make no mistake, that's what is going on here. The reaction was near immediate upon Sheryni returning from mirror - anything she does as a character could be taken as motivated by that Vortex gank and that puts it strictly in the territory of 'not allowed'.

This is not a hill I would be trying to die on, if I were you, considering all your previous comments in this thread the last twenty-four hours.

I mean, these are the same people who think you can't shout about people being dishonourable after they dogpile you 3v1 in Vortex for bashing because "it's the Vortex." Yeah, the Vortex is part of the roleplay game and your character's actions there, while "legal," can still be criticized!

I don't think this is particularly relevant to the conversation? What does this add and what point does it support?

You may criticize in shouts all you like. Criticism and claiming cause, however, are so far removed from one another. Shouting your own criticism of people does not justify you taking Vortex as PK Cause outside of that area. If you have another valid IC reason that isn't "I'm angry at their dishonor and their hiding!" (since that's very flimsy and can really be claimed by anyone without much or any roleplay to back it up), I'm all for you ganking me and others - but you've got to do the work to get there. When I look down a little further in this thread, I see:

Caitria was spewing BS to me in tells, as well as threatening me. I went after her, you continually defended, and so on.

Yeah, shit talking in tells is absolutely cause. That works just fine in my book. At that point, Caitria has also taken her share of the conflict outside of Vortex. Use your noodle and self-moderate, but feel free to go after her.

Using "it's the Vortex" to justify shitty behavior is about as silly as using "he is giving a sermon" to justify it. Allowable or not, it's still shitty behavior. But ganking is only okay when it's Spirit doing it, apparently.

I don't think ganking you in an Open PK zone is 'shitty behavior'. It's on the label, as far as Vortex goes, that you are open PK in there and you can't take that reasoning outside of Vortex. If you get ganked in Vortex and now you're sore about it, you can't suddenly decide to align with my opinion about what is acceptable PK cause and say "Well my character is angry at this dishonor, so I shall gank you outside the vortex!"

"He is giving a sermon" is a roleplay decision where your character is spreading the word of a god. Objectively, that's what a sermon is. If there's known criminals going around the game world who are deeply opposed to that god, it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever that they would not interfere with that sermon. To compare getting ganked in Vortex to getting ganked for a genuine roleplay-motivated reason sounds a lot like you are trying to place both on the same level of severity and they just aren't.

I did not touch Isia, ever, by the way. Deathsight would confirm this to anyone with eyes. And yes, I'm going to keep going after you if all you do is hide behind guards. If you want it to stop, face the consequences head on. It seems simple. You do not get a free pass just because you continue to hide and gank.

You're still open PK in the Vortex. If Whirran is going to go around frying bashers in the Vortex, why can't we? Eye for an eye and all that. Very hypocritical to assert this point, imo.

I can understand the desire that most people probably want, too, to just put him in the ground more and force him to surrender, but let's not assume 'facts' because they didn't happen when you're logged in.

That's not what I want. I can't speak for others, but the game isn't fun without villains and Whirran is absolutely a villain. However, villains are pointless to a fantasy narrative if nobody stands against them.

I'm kind of confused here. We've all watched anywhere from 3-6 people routinely gangbang Whirran at literally any time of the day for nothing more than "It's my RP" - even just trying to hold sermons. Are you really posting about this?

Well, I feel like I've to chime in here. As someone who participated in those ganks Whirran is not innocent, no. He antagonizes multiple people at the same time on a regular basis and attacks them without cause and/or refuses to fight them head on afterwards. I've personally gotten interrupted numerous times so far while fishing, hunting, doing keystones or instances. Most if not all of them were without a cause mind you, other than just him being a nuisance. And the moment I try to resolve it by fighting back all he ever did was fleeing and hiding the moment he got contested (except that one and only time in which he died). I personally find this whole content distasteful, but moving on.

Yeah, he's getting ganked by multiple people, but do you think we're incapable of just 1v1'ing to decide on the outcome once and for all? Or do you think we're just not letting this go out of spite? The sole reason behind this whole thing is his actions and the sheer fact that it just requires numbers to pull someone out of their safe zones and/or pin them down on the fly, because they are not fighting. Is this fun content? Not really. But as far as I'm concerned he's getting fair treatment.

Like I totally did not pursue most of the causes he gave me. But that does not really stop him, he just finds other ways to harrass your character. Which is fine because that's a very clear sign that he invites all the attention to himself. Like, maybe you didn't know that, and that explains a lot. But if you knew that then calling Spirit players out because they are killing him, but they are not killing him fairly makes no sense to me. Especially when the guy is nowhere to be found when it comes to single combat if you prove that you can beat him once, but he's still being a nuisance regularly.

Hmm this is great - I think Whirran should be happy to 1v1 you (for each instance of outstanding cause that you guys have on each other) and let that resolve everything between you, i.e. both of you leave each other alone thereafter. But will let Whirran confirm.

I mean, these are the same people who think you can't shout about people being dishonourable after they dogpile you 3v1 in Vortex for bashing because "it's the Vortex." Yeah, the Vortex is part of the roleplay game and your character's actions there, while "legal," can still be criticized!

Using "it's the Vortex" to justify shitty behavior is about as silly as using "he is giving a sermon" to justify it. Allowable or not, it's still shitty behavior. But ganking is only okay when it's Spirit doing it, apparently.

I did not touch Isia, ever, by the way. Deathsight would confirm this to anyone with eyes. And yes, I'm going to keep going after you if all you do is hide behind guards. If you want it to stop, face the consequences head on. It seems simple. You do not get a free pass just because you continue to hide and gank.