Upcoming Multiclass and Vampire Changes

2

Comments

  • I was wondering if there were any thoughts on people who have gone for multiclassing. What I mean is that you can, last I checked, purchase a total of 10 multiclass slots. With the recent changes, Shadow Side now has a total of 8 classes to pick from, with Bloodborn being folded into Praenomen and Shapeshifter not taking a class slot. Personally, I only have 7 slots (8 classes) so this does not affect me, but I know there might be some people who have the 10 class slots. Would there be any chance for a refund for those people?

    I also just noticed that Spirit side has a total of 8 classes to take slots with, not including Shapeshifter.

    I could be wrong, though. Like I said, I only have 7 slots, and those people who have 10 slots might decide to save their last 2 slots to get spirit classes or something for when they want to do a little lifey-wifey stuff, but I was curious!

    Aoi
  • AishiaAishia Queen Bee
    As per the announce post just contact Oleis if you have any issues with the class system changes/defunct things and you'd like to ask for a refund for etc. @Satomi‌
    Aoi
  • OleisOleis Producer Emeritus Administrator, Immortal
    We chose not to refund shapeshifter class slots, but I'm happy to refund the 10th class slot for shadow-side people who no longer want it. 
    You say to Slyphe, "You're so freaking smart."
    [---]
    "^," Slyphe agrees with you.
    Aoi
  • JensenJensen Corruption's Butcher
    I enjoy changes, but not pumped about killing off the old classes :( pretty much kills the desire to play my (former) paladin
    image
    Areka
  • TeaniTeani Shadow Mistress Sweden
    Don't you need a class slot if you switch sides and your shadow-tethered classes go dormant?



  • AishiaAishia Queen Bee
    Yeah unless you forget them.
  • OleisOleis Producer Emeritus Administrator, Immortal
    Jensen said:

    I enjoy changes, but not pumped about killing off the old classes :( pretty much kills the desire to play my (former) paladin

    It's a bummer, but it's also a major relief from a code and balancing standpoint. My only regret is that they were left in in the first place, because taking anything away sucks from all perspectives.
    You say to Slyphe, "You're so freaking smart."
    [---]
    "^," Slyphe agrees with you.
    IshinJensenRiluoTeaniTrager
  • Oleis said:

    We chose not to refund shapeshifter class slots, but I'm happy to refund the 10th class slot for shadow-side people who no longer want it. 

    Any chance of those slots being refunded in the future? Not that I had a lycan, it's just seems kinda sucky for those who spent the 200 or 300 credits just to get the space to have the class only to find out everyone gets it for free. If they asked for that refund, I mean. Just curious.
    image
  • OleisOleis Producer Emeritus Administrator, Immortal
    We made that decision because Shapeshifter affected everyone equally. The tenth slot is not objectively useless now that it's possible to retain tether-incompatible classes.

    On the other hand, the Vampire changes disproportionately affected Shadow-side players. While the tenth slot is still not useless, it does represent a loss of utility for which one side bears the brunt.
    You say to Slyphe, "You're so freaking smart."
    [---]
    "^," Slyphe agrees with you.
  • While I still disagree with that decision, I won't trouble you with discussing it further.
    As for vampire changes, couldn't the same thing be applied to Monk/Zealot classes? Go to the great spark to channel your inner flame or go to a temple to channel your inner ki. I know tethering would stop undead characters from utilizing their inner spark (both lore and mechanically) but it could open it up for living people to channel it. Please educate me on it, but aside from being alive, are there any other lore elements that say a Spirean citizen can't channel flame?

    Though, I forgot to say earlier I'm all for the streamlined changes that are happening. Looking forward to the new updates.
    image
  • OleisOleis Producer Emeritus Administrator, Immortal
    edited December 2014
    It's certainly mechanically and thematically possible to merge the Tekura-using classes as we did the Vampire classes. As for why we're unlikely to do it:

    Vampires are a selling point of Aetolia, and a big draw for many of our newbies. By presenting two mostly-similar but still separate experiences in Praenomen and Bloodborn, we left too many opportunities for confusion and frustration. Bringing them together provides one Vampire experience with one set of rules and mechanics. We were never going to revamp Praenomen and Bloodborn separately to hold completely unique skills -- they were always going to share.

    On the other hand, the Tekura classes are distinctly separate experiences. They each attract newbies, but not from the same sort of knee-jerk interest that Vampirism inspires in newcomers to Aetolia. Additionally, the eventual plan is to fully distinguish them from one another with unique skills and playstyles.
    You say to Slyphe, "You're so freaking smart."
    [---]
    "^," Slyphe agrees with you.
    AoiAngwe
  • I put this in an issue, but I'm sure everyone who plays BB/Prae will be interested in the answer.

    What is going to happen with style scrolls spent on BB? Will they roll over into Prae? Will being BB and Prae produce different results, like Elegant Praenomen vs Elegant Bloodborn?

    I hope it's the last one, personally :P

  • Bloodborn (now rituos) styles are slated to be converted to use scythe. I sent Oleis a whole write up of the replacement messages so he can push the change and update the messages all at the same time.
    SatomiIshinRiluo
  • Was earthmeld supposed to be changed to not work unless mistformed or is it a bug? Any reason why, if it was intentional? Makes it near-useless.
    imageimage
    Saervok
  • AlexinaAlexina the Haunted Soul
    edited December 2014
    Oleis said:

    We chose not to refund shapeshifter class slots, but I'm happy to refund the 10th class slot for shadow-side people who no longer want it. 

    It feels really lame having had paid credits for class slots and credits, and now they're essentially useless.
    Message #5593 Sent By: (aetolia) Received On: 12/04/2014/2:02
    "The Bloodborn guild has been dissolved and the class has been merged into Praenomen. As you already have the Praenomen class, you have simply been refunded 5292 lessons for your skill investment in Bloodborn."

    You have 11287 Lessons left, none of which you can use.

    You have 8 classes of a maximum 9.
    Sure makes me feel like paying for stuff in the first place just screwed me over.
    image
  • OleisOleis Producer Emeritus Administrator, Immortal
    Alexina said:

    Oleis said:

    We chose not to refund shapeshifter class slots, but I'm happy to refund the 10th class slot for shadow-side people who no longer want it. 

    It feels really lame having had paid credits for class slots and credits, and now they're essentially useless.
    Message #5593 Sent By: (aetolia) Received On: 12/04/2014/2:02
    "The Bloodborn guild has been dissolved and the class has been merged into Praenomen. As you already have the Praenomen class, you have simply been refunded 5292 lessons for your skill investment in Bloodborn."

    You have 11287 Lessons left, none of which you can use.

    You have 8 classes of a maximum 9.
    Sure makes me feel like paying for stuff in the first place just screwed me over.

    I am by no means complaining or expressing a lack of appreciation for you when I say this, but I think we can both agree that you do not represent the average player trying to get the best value for his or her dollar. You are one of very few people who has reason to see a downside in what is essentially a free class. All I can do is emphasize that we're looking for ways to make lessons useful and hope that you'll believe me.
    You say to Slyphe, "You're so freaking smart."
    [---]
    "^," Slyphe agrees with you.
  • AlexinaAlexina the Haunted Soul
    edited December 2014
    Oleis said:

    Alexina said:

    Oleis said:

    We chose not to refund shapeshifter class slots, but I'm happy to refund the 10th class slot for shadow-side people who no longer want it. 

    It feels really lame having had paid credits for class slots and credits, and now they're essentially useless.
    Message #5593 Sent By: (aetolia) Received On: 12/04/2014/2:02
    "The Bloodborn guild has been dissolved and the class has been merged into Praenomen. As you already have the Praenomen class, you have simply been refunded 5292 lessons for your skill investment in Bloodborn."

    You have 11287 Lessons left, none of which you can use.

    You have 8 classes of a maximum 9.
    Sure makes me feel like paying for stuff in the first place just screwed me over.
    I am by no means complaining or expressing a lack of appreciation for you when I say this, but I think we can both agree that you do not represent the average player trying to get the best value for his or her dollar. You are one of very few people who has reason to see a downside in what is essentially a free class. All I can do is emphasize that we're looking for ways to make lessons useful and hope that you'll believe me.



    I am not sure if my complaint is less valid because I am not representing the average player, or whether the fact that I do not represent the average player at all is relevant in any way. I agree that these changes overall have been good for the game, but my past investments into the game (the 9th class slot and 5,292 lessons) now offer me no benefit at all, and your response to that is that I am not your standard customer or whatever.

    Gee, that makes me feel a lot better.
    image
  • OleisOleis Producer Emeritus Administrator, Immortal
    If I gave you 300 more credits for the class slot and 882 credits for the lessons, would you have a use for them?
    You say to Slyphe, "You're so freaking smart."
    [---]
    "^," Slyphe agrees with you.
  • AlexinaAlexina the Haunted Soul
    edited December 2014
    Oleis said:

    If I gave you 300 more credits for the class slot and 882 credits for the lessons, would you have a use for them?

    Credits can be spent on artifacts/chalices/promotion auctions/etcetera. A ninth class slot when eight is the upper limit, and an additional 5,200 lessons to the 5000+ I already have will be of no use to me at all unless the game drastically changes.

    Anyway.

    The game was changed in a way that I was left with skill slots/lessons that I had paid credits for, but were no longer useful to me in any manner at all. You refunded the 10th class slot because it was of no use to me, but not the 9th, and.. you want me to be grateful that a less than a quarter of my now utterly useless investment was refunded?

    When I voiced my concerns, I was met with two arguments; one, I am not the standard, average paying customer, and two, I have no use for credits anyway, so there's no point in being upset that my past purchases were essentially taken away from me. I should just sit and wait until the game offers me a way to use 11,287 lessons, and then I'll be fine.

    Maybe I'm being ungrateful and unappreciative, but I still think it sucks. Don't get me wrong, I think these changes were all really cool, it's your reimbursement policy that rubs me the wrong way. I mean, it's your game and all, but I still feel justified in getting a bit upset in this particular situation.

    EDIT:
    I feel like I should clarify why I am upset. Credits represent an investment, either into the game, or earning real money to buy them from the website. When perks that I purchased for credits are removed from the game, or changed in a manner that makes them no longer beneficial at all, I feel like my investment has been taken away from me. That's what bothers me. The principle that a company I consider myself a loyal customer to took a part of my investment and rendered it completely unusable.
    image
  • MoireanMoirean Chairmander Portland
    Credits are way more useful than lessons. Saving lessons for a future release doesn't make much sense since you can always grind out lessons daily within the iron elite so really it's just a time investment to get the lessons you need. If I were in alexinas shoes I'd much rather have a refund via credits.
    AlissandraIshin
  • RiluoRiluo The Doctor
    Quick question:
    • Any Vampires suddenly getting hunger issues?
    • using more blood than normal, even with blood concentrate ritual on and level 3 blood thin
    • having issues with lifescent not functioning?

    Abhorash says, "Ve'kahi has proved that even bastards can earn their place."

  • Yeah, I'm having issues with lifescent not functioning and I definitely a higher blood usage. I have lifescent deff'd up but its not tracking any movement.
    (Oasis): Benedicto says, "There was like 0.5 seconds between "Oh hey, they're in area. That was quick." and "OMFG THEY'RE IN THE AREA STAHP STAHP!""


    Riluo
  • RiluoRiluo The Doctor
    Yeah the blood issue is insane at points

    Abhorash says, "Ve'kahi has proved that even bastards can earn their place."

  • TragerTrager Raiding your underwear drawer.
    I'd advise looking into slicktongue. It negates the blood-usage for whispering, and with the ritual changes it is now fairly painless to switch between defenses on a whim. If it was intended, I really like the idea of it. Makes you have to decide whether you're in it for the long fight, or just trying to burn them down quickly.
    Indoran'i is back baby. It's go-... Oh.


  • BB offense relies heavily on mana burn or health burn. Without mindsurge or tonguelash, our pressure is downsided drastically. So while yes, it does make you decide on a long fight or specific pressure, it still alternatively affects BB momentum.
    (Oasis): Benedicto says, "There was like 0.5 seconds between "Oh hey, they're in area. That was quick." and "OMFG THEY'RE IN THE AREA STAHP STAHP!""


  • TragerTrager Raiding your underwear drawer.
    ...Tha-.. That's the purpose? So you want to be able to reliably sustain 400 added damage per round through whispers with little to no incursion/consequence? Or vice versa with mana?
    Indoran'i is back baby. It's go-... Oh.


  • Prior to the changes, if I chose to, I could fight for 10 minutes and likely drop to 50% blood and be fine and could still very well switch between the primary rituals (albeit not as fast as I can now). Now with the changes, my blood expenditure is 5x that and all because I can now switch between surge/lash/slick/still at a 2.32s cost? Maybe I'm being biased to my class, but I really fail to see how having blood expenditure so high with equivalance to momentum equates to the fact that I could have very well done the same thing pre-vamp changes without the high blood expenditure rate and still have the same momentum and 400 damage per round.

    Alternatively, I'm not against a higher blood expenditure, however, with the rate its at now, I feel like my blood expenditure is equal to a lvl 25 praenomen who has yet to be embraced by his Sire. Especially considering I run both Concentration AND have blood_thin lvl 3. So while I think the idea behind this is understandable, the expenditure is MUCH too high a rate.
    (Oasis): Benedicto says, "There was like 0.5 seconds between "Oh hey, they're in area. That was quick." and "OMFG THEY'RE IN THE AREA STAHP STAHP!""


  • In general, apart from the change to earthmeld, and the removal of the sanguis/hema trans skill without replacement, I generally like most of the changes. Though things like the above I simply hadn't noticed much, since I don't fight.
    imageimage
  • RiluoRiluo The Doctor
    edited December 2014
    I am happy with the changes also, and love the ability to change whispers. Trust me this is incredible fun in a fight to be able to shift direction.

    However the blood issue is a big negative. I own the sarcophagus talisman artifact and will empty it in a few moments of combat. In fact in just one average mid-tier fight I can go through the stored corpses and the 100% blood I started with resulting in rage. At 5 seconds balance per feed this is not fun as it requires departing the room, returning to lost momentum and being stuck with the same issue all over again. Perhaps it can be reduced somewhat just to fix this for sanity sake. If not so be it, but it "bites" (pun).

    Abhorash says, "Ve'kahi has proved that even bastards can earn their place."

  • OleisOleis Producer Emeritus Administrator, Immortal
    I'll look into the blood issue. There was no intentional increase.
    You say to Slyphe, "You're so freaking smart."
    [---]
    "^," Slyphe agrees with you.
    Riluo
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