An aLUREing thread

ArbreArbre Arbrelina JolieMember, Guildmaster Posts: 1,999 mod
This discussion was created from comments split from: Owned Part II.
«13

Comments

  • BenedictoBenedicto Tentacles Errywhere! Member Posts: 566 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2013
    <4087/6352h 5646/6050m 26345e 25055w <e- --> <cspdb>> <100>
    Flying in from the north, a projectile hammer slams into your chest, leaving you dazed and winded.
    You are afflicted with stun.
    Knifing pain rips through your being as Toz's weapon hungrily devours part of your soul.
    <1989/6352h 5646/6050m 26345e 25055w <e- --> <cspdb>> <100>bbt e



    Here is my audit;
    ********************************[ Resistances ]********************************
    Type           Defences     Miniskills   Armour       A. Total     
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Cutting        25%          0%           21%          32%
    Blunt          15%          0%           21%          24%

    Also had Kaido Projectiles on as well.

    Wow.

  • TozToz Member Posts: 2,153 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2013
    I throw at 4.45s. That is a 170 damage warhammer with 17 str!


    EDIT: I am also the godunicorn Bat-Thor.
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "I'll still never forget the first time I saw Toz throwing hammers."
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "I freaked out and thought they had somehow managed to pull me into them."
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "So I tumbled away from my team and into theirs."


    Calipso
  • DaskalosDaskalos Credit Whore Extraordinare Rolling amongst piles of credits.Member, Guildmaster Posts: 1,509 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2013
    It wouldn't be so bad IF it was stopped by icewalls (unless it is now) and IF lure wasn't so bloody overpowered to prevent shielding. Though, nearly 2k, any 2 Carnifex can kill anyone prone, so maybe it should be tweaked too. If you had 21 STR , maybe. I have to hit a level 3 bow with 21 DEX to hit those numbers.

    image

    image


    Message #17059 Sent By: Oleis           Received On: 1/03/2014/17:24
    "If it makes you feel better, just checking your artifact list threatens to crash my mudlet."

  • MoireanMoirean Chairmander PortlandMember, Newbie Helper, Guildmaster Posts: 5,612 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It did 2k, as a blunt attack, against a rather low blunt audit. It's basically the darkie version of handaxes, except the only venom it delivers is camus. 
    The Divine voice of Razmael echoes in your head, "God of imps."
    Eugenides says to you, "Imp, Are you sure you were not born a Troll?"
    The Divine voice of Arion echoes in your head, "Every time I try to punish you for being so flippant, I find Myself laughing instead."
    Hugo has expressed his esteem of you for the following reason: Being a badass leader.
    image
  • TozToz Member Posts: 2,153 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2013
    1) Yes you do
    2) It is stopped by icewalls. You did not have an icewall up.


    EDIT: 3) Nearly...4k? 4-2 = 4?

    EDIT EDIT: Quit editing and making me have to go back and edit. > : (
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "I'll still never forget the first time I saw Toz throwing hammers."
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "I freaked out and thought they had somehow managed to pull me into them."
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "So I tumbled away from my team and into theirs."


  • DaskalosDaskalos Credit Whore Extraordinare Rolling amongst piles of credits.Member, Guildmaster Posts: 1,509 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Do handaxes stun?

    Also, the bigger issue here is lure, but then, lure is the bigger issue 99% of the time and nothing is done about it.

    image

    image


    Message #17059 Sent By: Oleis           Received On: 1/03/2014/17:24
    "If it makes you feel better, just checking your artifact list threatens to crash my mudlet."

    Benedicto
  • MoireanMoirean Chairmander PortlandMember, Newbie Helper, Guildmaster Posts: 5,612 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Handaxes stun, yes. It's one of their core features for use by Sents.
    The Divine voice of Razmael echoes in your head, "God of imps."
    Eugenides says to you, "Imp, Are you sure you were not born a Troll?"
    The Divine voice of Arion echoes in your head, "Every time I try to punish you for being so flippant, I find Myself laughing instead."
    Hugo has expressed his esteem of you for the following reason: Being a badass leader.
    image
    Angwe
  • TozToz Member Posts: 2,153 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2013
    Handaxes can deliver a venom just like snipe.
    EDIT: And bleed!

    Clearly the solution is to delete lure and let me envenom my warhammer.
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "I'll still never forget the first time I saw Toz throwing hammers."
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "I freaked out and thought they had somehow managed to pull me into them."
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "So I tumbled away from my team and into theirs."


  • DaskalosDaskalos Credit Whore Extraordinare Rolling amongst piles of credits.Member, Guildmaster Posts: 1,509 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Your axe does more damage than a handaxe...

    image

    image


    Message #17059 Sent By: Oleis           Received On: 1/03/2014/17:24
    "If it makes you feel better, just checking your artifact list threatens to crash my mudlet."

  • TozToz Member Posts: 2,153 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Daskalos said:
    Your axe does more damage than a handaxe...
    TIL I'm the /Dwarven/ Bat Thor.

    Yes, my warhammer does more damage than a handaxe. Sentinel handaxe is an awful comparison (sorry Moi) because 1) its balance was hardcore nerfed by sentinel changes, and 2) they're getting crossbows soon. I have a high damage attack that is both slower than snipe, does not deliver venom, nor bleed. It's minmaxed fairly hard, sure. But you were taking comparable damage from snipe, and that was also throwing in a free venom + bleed - much better DPS/utility. All I'm doing is stealing kills.
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "I'll still never forget the first time I saw Toz throwing hammers."
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "I freaked out and thought they had somehow managed to pull me into them."
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "So I tumbled away from my team and into theirs."


  • DaskalosDaskalos Credit Whore Extraordinare Rolling amongst piles of credits.Member, Guildmaster Posts: 1,509 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The issue I have is the stun + lure. I was spamming shield and couldn't - and as soon as I did, it got meteor'd away.

     

    I'm sorry, but you shouldn't be able to kill me in 7 seconds ranged.

    image

    image


    Message #17059 Sent By: Oleis           Received On: 1/03/2014/17:24
    "If it makes you feel better, just checking your artifact list threatens to crash my mudlet."

  • TozToz Member Posts: 2,153 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2013
    With 2 highly artied snipers + me + Moirean, that's...not really outside the realm of possibilities. I agree with changing lure, because I hates it, but that's not got much to do at all with hammer axe damage.
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "I'll still never forget the first time I saw Toz throwing hammers."
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "I freaked out and thought they had somehow managed to pull me into them."
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "So I tumbled away from my team and into theirs."


    Angwe
  • MoireanMoirean Chairmander PortlandMember, Newbie Helper, Guildmaster Posts: 5,612 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I was mostly joking (although I do think the utility of stun is fairly significant). Comparing individual skills will always be an exercise in futility. I think things are a bit unbalanced right now, but once Sents get archery that will swing and they'll have the advantage, as Syssin is a neutral class. 
    The Divine voice of Razmael echoes in your head, "God of imps."
    Eugenides says to you, "Imp, Are you sure you were not born a Troll?"
    The Divine voice of Arion echoes in your head, "Every time I try to punish you for being so flippant, I find Myself laughing instead."
    Hugo has expressed his esteem of you for the following reason: Being a badass leader.
    image
  • BenedictoBenedicto Tentacles Errywhere! Member Posts: 566 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think my biggest issue with the ranged imbalance at the moment comes from the interference (?) refining ability. Telepathy is arguably the only real ranged ability for the lighters and it's completely negated in lesser fights whereas the ranged darkie abilities work through it. I understand it was done to counter things like radiance and force happening to whoever is extracting. But to have a defensive ability in refining which completely cancels out every offensive ability in a skill tree whilst not having anything to penalize any other class is odd and leaves lighters with very few (basically no) options.

    Daskalos
  • DaskalosDaskalos Credit Whore Extraordinare Rolling amongst piles of credits.Member, Guildmaster Posts: 1,509 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Why do you think us getting Sents with Archery will swing it in our direction?

    Sentinels (Duiran) with bolts

    Templars with Javelin (lol) (Enorian)

    vs

    Carnifex Hammerthrow

    Cabalist LoS affliction skill (tweak?)

    Indorani Doppleganger

    Vampire Lure

    Teradrim ranged strip.

     

    Lycan\Monks\Syssin are non-starters because both sides have them.

     

    How is that going to be 'even'?

    image

    image


    Message #17059 Sent By: Oleis           Received On: 1/03/2014/17:24
    "If it makes you feel better, just checking your artifact list threatens to crash my mudlet."

  • ElleniaEllenia Member Posts: 27 ✭✭✭
    You forgot to mention Shaman's "grove pull" ( or  whatever it is called) - and nothing stops it except a teradrim or shield\icewall ( which also stops every shadow based skill you mentioned)

    image
  • TozToz Member Posts: 2,153 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2013
    Daskalos said:

    Why do you think us getting Sents with Archery will swing it in our direction?

    Sentinels (Duiran) with bolts

    Templars with Javelin (lol) (Enorian) Supposedly the same as hammerthrow/could be the same as hammer throw, gets venom delivery

    vs

    Carnifex Hammerthrow adjacent only

    Cabalist LoS affliction skill (tweak?) No idea - are there even Cabalists any more?

    Indorani Doppleganger Can be orb'd before they cast, also a rite to deal with these

    Vampire Lure Kill it with fire.

    Teradrim ranged strip. Requires sand in the room, I believe - shamans can counter

     

    Lycan\Monks\Syssin are non-starters because both sides have them.

     

    How is that going to be 'even'?

    Even because you will have a damage-specific ranged attack that works adjacent as well, though yours will also have an ability that can be used with it - how is it 'even' that you all have room control in the form of rites/vibes/traps/overgrowth while all darkies have are vibes/sand? It's not - but that's kinda the point. Darkies tend to have better attacking abilities, and to compensate lifers have better defensive abilities. You guys dig in, it is really hard to get you out.
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "I'll still never forget the first time I saw Toz throwing hammers."
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "I freaked out and thought they had somehow managed to pull me into them."
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "So I tumbled away from my team and into theirs."


  • DaskalosDaskalos Credit Whore Extraordinare Rolling amongst piles of credits.Member, Guildmaster Posts: 1,509 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It needs to be better balanced. Period. The team combat, especially the ranged combat, has needed attention for about 3 years now.

    It's Coming Soon. Hopefully.

    Nerf Lure.

    image

    image


    Message #17059 Sent By: Oleis           Received On: 1/03/2014/17:24
    "If it makes you feel better, just checking your artifact list threatens to crash my mudlet."

  • MoireanMoirean Chairmander PortlandMember, Newbie Helper, Guildmaster Posts: 5,612 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Benedicto said:
    I think my biggest issue with the ranged imbalance at the moment comes from the interference (?) refining ability. Telepathy is arguably the only real ranged ability for the lighters and it's completely negated in lesser fights whereas the ranged darkie abilities work through it. I understand it was done to counter things like radiance and force happening to whoever is extracting. But to have a defensive ability in refining which completely cancels out every offensive ability in a skill tree whilst not having anything to penalize any other class is odd and leaves lighters with very few (basically no) options.
    Interference can be taken down. Nobody seems to bother, for some reason.
    The Divine voice of Razmael echoes in your head, "God of imps."
    Eugenides says to you, "Imp, Are you sure you were not born a Troll?"
    The Divine voice of Arion echoes in your head, "Every time I try to punish you for being so flippant, I find Myself laughing instead."
    Hugo has expressed his esteem of you for the following reason: Being a badass leader.
    image
    Malok
  • CalipsoCalipso Member Posts: 615 ✭✭✭
    Benedicto said:
    I think my biggest issue with the ranged imbalance at the moment comes from the interference (?) refining ability. Telepathy is arguably the only real ranged ability for the lighters and it's completely negated in lesser fights whereas the ranged darkie abilities work through it. I understand it was done to counter things like radiance and force happening to whoever is extracting. But to have a defensive ability in refining which completely cancels out every offensive ability in a skill tree whilst not having anything to penalize any other class is odd and leaves lighters with very few (basically no) options.
    Golgotha is cancelled in Foci locations and cannot be cast in the area. No defense needs placing up. Telepathy needed a form of block since a simple radiance by standing safely away in the area could make an extractor run and ruin the whole process. A balance needed to be met.

  • BenedictoBenedicto Tentacles Errywhere! Member Posts: 566 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You have to be in the adjacent room and no-one wants to do that with lure on the cards. Besides it can just be put back up again so...fairly ineffective all in all.

  • CalipsoCalipso Member Posts: 615 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2013
    Daskalos said:

    Why do you think us getting Sents with Archery will swing it in our direction?

    Sentinels (Duiran) with bolts

    Templars with Javelin (lol) (Enorian)

    vs

    Carnifex Hammerthrow

    Cabalist LoS affliction skill (tweak?)

    Indorani Doppleganger

    Vampire Lure

    Teradrim ranged strip.

     

    Lycan\Monks\Syssin are non-starters because both sides have them.

     

    How is that going to be 'even'?

    Luminary Beckon

    Sentinel Handaxes

    Sentinel Drag

    Shaman pull (adjacent)

    Shaman Shift (area)

    Monk Kaichoke (apparently monk is for both sides.)

    Monk/Daru telepathy (apparently monk is for both sides..)



    Missed a few there bub.


    Edit: Edited
    Post edited by Calipso on

  • DaskalosDaskalos Credit Whore Extraordinare Rolling amongst piles of credits.Member, Guildmaster Posts: 1,509 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Except you can only take it down one room away, which puts us in range for that whole beast of abilities above that was defended as 'adjacent room only'

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    image


    Message #17059 Sent By: Oleis           Received On: 1/03/2014/17:24
    "If it makes you feel better, just checking your artifact list threatens to crash my mudlet."

  • MoireanMoirean Chairmander PortlandMember, Newbie Helper, Guildmaster Posts: 5,612 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you want to use a very powerful ability, which can work without LoS or range, then you have to exchange a few moments of vulnerability for that. If I want to use MY forced movement, I have to ENTER the enemy room. Everything has its costs.
    The Divine voice of Razmael echoes in your head, "God of imps."
    Eugenides says to you, "Imp, Are you sure you were not born a Troll?"
    The Divine voice of Arion echoes in your head, "Every time I try to punish you for being so flippant, I find Myself laughing instead."
    Hugo has expressed his esteem of you for the following reason: Being a badass leader.
    image
    Calipso
  • BenedictoBenedicto Tentacles Errywhere! Member Posts: 566 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So that applies to Doppies and Lure how?

  • BenedictoBenedicto Tentacles Errywhere! Member Posts: 566 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Also @Calipso I already pointed out that I completely understood about radiance and yes that should be blocked I completely agree. But not to the point where in order to do that it blocks every other telepathy skill. Even though Golgotha got banned all the other domination ents still work. Why not make that the same for telepathy? Or, even the playing field by making interference work against all non-adjacent ranged skills?

  • ArbreArbre Arbrelina Jolie Member, Guildmaster Posts: 1,999 mod
    Bene, I ban you from posting until you downsize your sig.  IT'S TOO BIG.

    (inb4 that's what she said)
    Benedicto
  • SeirSeir Seein' All the Things Getting high off your emotionMember Posts: 972 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2013
    Skill disparity exists. Spirit has not had an answer to vast selection of group utility that shadow has had for ages. It used to not be as prevalent before multi-class because Telepathy was mostly exclusive to lifers so we had an answer. Now, Shadow has access to telepathy and most common avenues of conflict (see: lessers) have a means of countering it completely. We have no native classes that use archery, our Monks are countered by interference, we have nothing like lure, we have nothing like Sand Shred. You have access to every useful group mechanic that we do and then some.

    I can put a list together again if need be.
    Benedicto
  • BenedictoBenedicto Tentacles Errywhere! Member Posts: 566 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Arbre said:
    Bene, I ban you from posting until you downsize your sig.  IT'S TOO BIG.

    (inb4 that's what she said)
    I would but I don't know how! :(

  • MoireanMoirean Chairmander PortlandMember, Newbie Helper, Guildmaster Posts: 5,612 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I really don't want to go into this ti-for-tat breakdown of every single skill and its counters. We already have a thread about that. We can discuss this there, but I've already stated that I don't think comparing individual skills achieves anything at all.

    It is only when you look at overall potential and how skills work together, as a unit, that you can accurately and fairly gauge team combat. Individual skills will always have their perks and weaknesses. You have to look at the entire arsenal - if you are judging an individual skill, think about it in context of all the other options it will be working alongside.
    The Divine voice of Razmael echoes in your head, "God of imps."
    Eugenides says to you, "Imp, Are you sure you were not born a Troll?"
    The Divine voice of Arion echoes in your head, "Every time I try to punish you for being so flippant, I find Myself laughing instead."
    Hugo has expressed his esteem of you for the following reason: Being a badass leader.
    image
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