Bounties

Serrice

Hm, good for gold you say? *makes note to check it out*

Haven

MEATGAMER.

Ezalor

Always wondered why orgs can just claim certain areas as under their protection. Was there an event or something for that? Can BL just claim Tiyen Esityi under its protection and claim PK on anyone who bashes there?

Moirean

In some cases, there are events, either RP or long-term player actions, like with Tainhelm - the back-and-forth over that village included a war, and the divine recognized that with a RP event for the Paladins and items for the people involved with the liberation (I still have my necklace, yarr). 

In other cases, I think it's just that nobody has really abused it or complained about it, so it's never really come up. I joked about making the 3 Rock a place only Spinesreach should enforce order in, and the enthusiastic "HELL YEAH FREE PK ZONE LET'S CLAIM TORNOS TOO" kinda made me go whoa. I suspect if the city declared those under protection, we'd probably see admin stepping in, as I know 3 Rock is pretty darn popular.

Haven

Ezalor said:

Always wondered why orgs can just claim certain areas as under their protection. Was there an event or something for that? Can BL just claim Tiyen Esityi under its protection and claim PK on anyone who bashes there?

They can certainly try!

I, personally, would advise against it though until such a time organisations can actually do something tangible with their surroundings. There's no real victory to be won otherwise.

Areka

I'm hoping factions help with this, to work out consistency in 'protected' grounds in all fronts - gives some competition between groups, as well as weeding out that hypocrisy of 'we defend you therefore it's OK if I kill you but not ok if other people kill you'. Hopefully it would also provide another avenue of conflict other than bountying and help orgs followthrough with their agendas. 

Haven

Areka said:

As well as weeding out that hypocrisy of 'we defend you therefore it's OK if I kill you but not ok if other people kill you'.

Some people role-play corrupt characters though!

Areka

They do, and with that should come consequences. 

EDIT: Defended/allied regions should care that those who are 'on their side' are also bashing them. There should be a reaction of some sort, both within that community, and with their allies, etc. It's what makes them more believable/a breathing thing rather than negligible scenery. 

Haven

Areka said:

They do, and with that should come consequences. 

EDIT: Defended/allied regions should care that those who are 'on their side' are also bashing them. There should be a reaction of some sort, both within that community, and with their allies, etc. It's what makes them more believable/a breathing thing rather than negligible scenery. 

Oh, yeah definitely. I would love to see more areas with sentient life adopt a form of enemy status or something. I've always found it amusing I could bash out say... the Lich Gardens as a vampire or something and come back and have the vamps there salute me and say "STRENGTH IN UNDEATH!"

At least cower in fear of my abuse or curse my name, something!

"Did you hear? I heard Haven killed those poor children in Kalebb. *spit on ground as I walk by* Some <insert Enorian class here>."

Rivas

You get that enough from your fellow PCs, though, don't you?

Mastema

I am all for bounties, but people should show restraint a little when it happens. Send a newbie to kill a newbie, and if it fails give the kid a breather and challange them yourself. I think its only fair to give the newbies a chance, but then again I am a bit of a softy  :-?

Moirean

Isto said:

I just went after a bounty, Moirean. Didn't check their might. If they're gonna get bounties they gotta step up, frankly.

-----

That is why I was upset about the bounties. I don't really blame Isto for attacking them (although honorsing a name you don't know seems like something you should do). It's the fact that they were bountied is where the issue lies.

Malok

I think it might be time in Bloodloch to bounty people who hunt in Lich Gardens and Torturer's Caverns. Seems like a reasonable thing.

Barda

Warnings could go a long way, I was hunting there and all the sudden get hit with an arrow, then nothing. So I started looking for who did it and Xenia showed up to help. Taygeta tried to hit me with I guess radiance and we got out then were bountied. There was no warning and then the bounties were offered to be removed if reparations were made which seemed like being spit in the face so they were rejected.

Calipso

Angwe said:

...What? @Calipso, would you mind editing the first part of that for clarity, it's a bit hard to understand what you're trying to say.

Done.

Calipso

Barda said:

Warnings could go a long way, I was hunting there and all the sudden get hit with an arrow than nothing. So I started looking for who did it and Xenia showed up to help. Taygeta tried to hit me with I guess radiance and we got out than were bountied. There was no warning and then the bounties were offered to be removed if reparations were made which seemed like being spit in the face so they were rejected.

This is exactly what I was trying to state in my post. The feeling of the victim being "forced" to give some sort of reparations for doing something as simple as basic hunting.

Illikaal

Barda said:

Warnings could go a long way, I was hunting there and all the sudden get hit with an arrow than nothing. So I started looking for who did it and Xenia showed up to help. Taygeta tried to hit me with I guess radiance and we got out than were bountied. There was no warning and then the bounties were offered to be removed if reparations were made which seemed like being spit in the face so they were rejected.

Ah well. If it were me, I'd have let you off with a warning, since you didn't know what the laws were. Nobody can fault you for being ignorant to the laws of another city. Contrary to popular belief, if you ever see me killing someone (newbies especially) it's because I've had good reason to do so, and they were warned before hand. If, and only if you continued to hunt Torston after that, then I'd have dropped the Omen hammer on you. 

Also, I don't see why Bloodloch DOESN'T set bounties on people for hunting the Lich Gardens or Torturer's Caverns. As long as it fits within their RP, that's fine with me. Desian tried setting bounties on people who raided Ciem, but I guess that didn't fly with the Admins because Ciem is an open PK zone. I also recall Kadvar and some other Lochians half-heartedly enforcing some "Defend Tolonar" law. Anyone who went to go try and kill Tolonar was open PK for the Bloodlochians. That's also funny because a good chunk of them have the honors line for slaying him. Even moreso, Iosyne congregants having killed Llazuth >_>. 

That being neither here nor there! I wasn't in the situation at hand, and if it were me, I'd have handled it differently. I'd appreciate it if I didn't get thrown under the bus in the future because low tier combatants feel like they're getting 'griefed' by cheesecake all over the roof tier combatants. You just happen to meet us in an unfortunate fashion, much like I met Mazzion, Sryaen, Cariv and company under unfortunate circumstances when I was a lowbie. Still, I knew if I was subjecting myself to PK, whatever happened happened, I never whined about being griefed. 

Except that one time Acino raided Duiran and I killed him with a lucky incinerate. He proceeded to kill me 5 times after that while I was out hunting. Little did I know this was against the rules at the time because I was a newbie, but water under the bridge and all that. 

Angwe

Man, I can't kill someone for mouthing off without Dourif and Ellenia showing up. Isn't even worth a rage.

Seir

Angwe said:

Man, I can't kill someone for mouthing off without Dourif and Ellenia showing up. Isn't even worth a rage.

So begins the slippery slope of the never-ending cycle of teaming. I've experienced it. It's annoying.

Solution is to bring people with you not to attack the person mouthing off, but to ensure that if other people come, they'll jump in to attack whoever starts attacking you. I did it when I first came back and it worked. Just do it a few times to Ellenia and Dourif and they'll get the picture pretty quickly.

Edit: Basically, if you present a teamer with a situation where they can possibly lose and start second-guessing themselves, they won't go.

Teani

Illidan said:

Also, I don't see why Bloodloch DOESN'T set bounties on people for hunting the Lich Gardens or Torturer's Caverns. As long as it fits within their RP, that's fine with me.

Perhaps not Torturer's caverns, but Kornar and Vilimo for sure. Lich Gardens too, I suppose, as they already have Infernals watching two entrances and attack those now aligned to their side.

@Calipso - Bounty system needing an overhaul.

I think you are overreacting when you say it should never have been approved in the first place. Sure, it's probable that not every bounty ever set was done so according to rules and stipulations, but that doesn't make the entire system flawed. Mostly, I think it's a matter of attitude when speaking/asking questions about a bounty.

@Calipso - Retaliation for making a mistake

If you're bountied for a mistake, ask questions, explain yourself and apologize, then request the bounty be removed as it was clearly a mistake and now you know better. Just keep calm when trying to sort something out and you can avoid combat if that is your aim.

Most of the time, as can be seen from comments made by several players, those who are bountied either know why it happened (deliberate acts against an org or having been previously informed) or are told when asking. It is then up to the person to decide how to handle the situation.

I have run into enemy cities several times through the years and I have -never- been bountied for it. When approached about my reasons for entering the city, I've always explained myself (mostly by cursing my mount for running in the wrong direction, or taking a wrong turn somewhere) and then the matter has been dropped.

Xavin

@calipso: Regarding your edit. Are you saying that you think it's the bountying org's responsibility to make sure that every new player knows their laws before any infractions could occur? Because, really, city laws are public.

Teani

@Xavin: Even though city laws are public, not every newbie will know to read them. I think that's what she meant with this not being a University course with mandatory reading. I see nothing wrong with @Calipso asking people to inform about what laws has been broken when bounties are issued. However, I do think this is what happens already (only she might not have experienced it herself) so I see no issues with it. Bounty away, but be ready to explain why later.

Orus

Honestly, doesn't area protection seem like an odd thing to put an organizational bounty on?  Shouldn't it be active protection only, so if they're bashing you can run and defend your people and show those npcs that your org means business and maybe get a bit of RP out of it.  Convince them to leave the area and not to come back.  Hell maybe convert that newbie to your side!

Orrr, I guess you can file a bounty and someone who wants elite 1v1 pk can come grease someone 10% of their might a day later who has no actual connection to the  bounty beyond happening to be  the one who claims it.

Seir

My guess is that this issue will likely be resolved with the advent of factions. You'll likely become open PK if you're in an area of a faction that is hostile to you.

Ilyon

Wait, wait. People actually -read- city laws? :-/ I mean, I've kind of skimmed Bloodloch's, but I never bothered looking at Enorian's or such ...

Angwe

I read all of 'em, but that's just 'cause I love reading help files and news posts. I agree that it (reading the laws of an organization you aren't a part of) isn't something one should expect others to do, especially a newbie.

Orus

Thinking about it, rather than forcing the administration to  take a stance, what would be the chance of starting a sea change in the playerbase.  Each org stops bountying for area protection and instead turns it into an active thing.  But, just seeing an enemy in the area isn't reason for PK.

This is a culture that we can foster without a ruling from on high.  We can change the game for the better.  Why not try to that before we demand sweeping changes to the bountying system.  If we fail, then so be it.  The admins have to make a rule, but if we succeed then hey...we've actually managed to police ourselves in PK. 

I know that's crazy talk, but I think it might be possible.

Luna

I don't think most citizens read the Spinesreach laws, let alone outsiders. On topic, it's also funny to me how people keep shouting "READ ENO LAWS BEFORE BASHING", but even if you actually -do- read Eno's laws, it says right in the beginning that they only apply to outsiders while inside city limits. How you all missed this little gem I have no idea.

Either way, bountying newbies for bashing in your pet area is beyond stupid, regardless of what sort of derp you've got written in the city law file.

Seir

While I think it makes sense within the context of Enorian's roleplay, I'm going to reiterate my stance that I think it establishes a very dangerous precedent when it comes to bounties. By all means, I'd say actively go after folks hunting in those areas after you've sent them a warning. Bounties, however, constitute a crime against the organization itself. I think hunting in certain areas toes the line substantially.

However, I expect with factions that we'll have the ability to actively defend these areas from folks who oppose those factions.

Illikaal

Luna said:

I don't think most citizens read the Spinesreach laws, let alone outsiders. On topic, it's also funny to me how people keep shouting "READ ENO LAWS BEFORE BASHING", but even if you actually -do- read Eno's laws, it says right in the beginning that they only apply to outsiders while inside city limits. How you all missed this little gem I have no idea.

Either way, bountying newbies for bashing in your pet area is beyond stupid, regardless of what sort of derp you've got written in the city law file.

Even though I've barely skimmed through Enorian's law, I've never done that, hence while I was war minister, I always gave out warnings. I don't expect newbies, or any enemies for that matter to know the laws of another city. Hell, -I- haven't read the laws of Spinesreeach or Bloodloch, so why would I expect anyone else to read the laws of another city? 

And why you quotin' brah.