"Econo-me? You Hardly Know Me!"

24

Comments

  • TeaniTeani Evening Sky SwedenMember Posts: 1,932 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here is some data for a non-artifacted, non-buffed level 87 character:

    Str: 14
    Dex: 14
    Int: 12
    Con: 12
    Statpack: typical
    Health: 3820

    Audit:
    +-- Resistances ------------------------+-- Avoidance -------------------------+
    Cutting | 0% 0% 68% 34% Dodge Chance | 0% 0%
    Blunt | 0% 0% 68% 34% Divert Chance | 0% 0%
    Magic | 0% 0% 0% 0% Divert Block | 0% 0%
    Fire | 0% 0% 0% 0% +-- Miscellaneous ---------------------+
    Cold | 0% 0% 0% 0% Experience Bonus | 35%
    Electric | 0% 0% 0% 0% Crit. Chance | 30.6%
    Poison | 0% 24% 0% 24% Celerity | 2 r/ps
    Psychic | 0% 0% 0% 0% Health Drain | 0
    Asphyxiation | 0% 24% 0% 24% Mana Drain | 0
    Spirit | 10% 0% 0% 10% Willpower Drain | 0
    Shadow | 0% 0% 0% 0% Endurance Drain | 0
    +------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
    * Curatives were on welcomeback package level with 200 of all sips, 50 of all pills, which also
    included weapon and armor.
    * No fancy scripts, just manual bashing because there was nothing set up. No other cures used
    than normal health and mana sipping.
    * Bashing area: Teshen (reavers and workers)
    * Bashing time: until health ran out.

    Start End
    Time: 22:15 22:46 (ran out of health)
    Gold: 652 1184
    Level: 87 (98.84%) 88 (7.01%)
    Kills: 140 mobs
    Health: 200 0
    Mana: 200 150 (35 sips)

    Cost of health: 6gp (basically 30 gold to replenish to start)

    Profit: 502 gold
    Cost to get dressed (pants: 150, shirt: 300, shoes: 252): 702

    At least next round of bashing won't be done in the nude.



    VyxsisTozRhyotZaila
  • XeniaXenia Member Posts: 935 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 9
    I don't know where I fall in size in the fish to whale category. I did my own test, unintentionally without Anabiotic, let's call it bashing on a budget? Also let's call it the lazy basher, since I also didn't have goggles to see mists...Oops!

    Items and Stats
    It is an Ankyrean artifact, enchanted with the following powers:
    constitution(2) enhancement(2) heal_bonus(2) equilibrium_recovery
    Permament Tree
    White amulet
    full set of orbs

    Strength : 18(+4) Dexterity : 17(+2) Timeout : 60 minutes |
    | Intelligence : 13(+2) Constitution : 18(+5) Statpack : Athletic |

    +-- Resistances ------------------------+-- Avoidance -------------------------+
    Cutting | 30% 0% 55% 49% Dodge Chance | 0% 0%
    Blunt | 20% 0% 56% 42% Divert Chance | 37% 37%
    Magic | 30% 24% 0% 47% Divert Block | 27% 27%
    Fire | 30% 24% 0% 47% +-- Miscellaneous ---------------------+
    Cold | 30% 24% 0% 47% Experience Bonus | 5%
    Electric | 20% 24% 0% 39% Crit. Chance | 47.23%
    Poison | 20% 24% 0% 39% Celerity | 3 r/ps
    Psychic | 10% 24% 0% 32% Health Drain | 0
    Asphyxiation | 10% 24% 0% 32% Mana Drain | 0
    Spirit | 15% 0% 0% 15% Willpower Drain | 0
    Shadow | 20% 0% 0% 20% Endurance Drain | 0
    +------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

    Starting Conditions
    Time: 13:20
    Level: 134 at 46.65%
    -------------------------------- Pills ---------------------------------
    [ 653] acuity [1843] amaurosis [ 417] antipsychotic
    [ 41] coagulation [ 731] decongestant [1912] depressant
    [ 980] euphoriant [ 572] kawhepill [ 596] opiate
    [1917] ototoxin [1999] panacea [ 819] paste
    [ 700] somnium [ 507] steroid [ 665] stimulant
    [ 312] thanatonin [1254] waterbreathing

    ==============================[ Elixirs ]==============================
    [ 1350] an elixir of health [ 1166] an elixir of mana
    [ 654] an elixir of levitation [ 1399] an elixir of immunity
    [ 787] an elixir of antivenin [ 467] an elixir of speed
    [ 524] an elixir of frost

    ==============================[ Poultices ]==============================
    [ 1350] an epidermal poultice [ 612] a mending poultice
    [ 301] a caloric poultice [ 1189] a restoration poultice
    [ 100] a mass poultice

    Areas Bashed
    Tiyen, upper level (no abyss)
    Xaanhal

    Ending Conditions
    Time: 14:37
    Level: 134 XP:50.90%
    Gold: 2770
    -------------------------------- Pills ---------------------------------
    [ 653] acuity [1843] amaurosis [ 417] antipsychotic
    [ 36] coagulation [ 731] decongestant [1912] depressant
    [ 979] euphoriant [ 572] kawhepill [ 596] opiate
    [1917] ototoxin [1999] panacea [ 819] paste
    [ 700] somnium [ 507] steroid [ 665] stimulant
    [ 312] thanatonin [1254] waterbreathing
    ==============================[ Elixirs ]==============================
    [ 650] an elixir of health [ 1066] an elixir of mana
    [ 654] an elixir of levitation [ 1399] an elixir of immunity
    [ 787] an elixir of antivenin [ 467] an elixir of speed
    [ 524] an elixir of frost

    ==============================[ Poultices ]==============================
    [ 1350] an epidermal poultice [ 612] a mending poultice
    [ 301] a caloric poultice [ 1189] a restoration poultice
    [ 100] a mass poultice
    image
  • SatomiSatomi Member Posts: 299 ✭✭✭
    edited April 10
    Okay.. this is a bit much guys. Anyways..

    Class: Sciomancer
    Relevant Artifacts:
    Artifact Shield (Buckler), eq_recovery, protection
    golden idol (Nazetu, so no Grecht Lunar bonus :( ),
    Hunter's Tools (lets me see current mob HP, allows me to slow the attack of mobs in a room for 15 seconds [my NOOO DON'T DIE move], and lets me reset an entire area once a RL day, after howling.) The tools also reset the area 10% faster than normal.
    Compendium (At best, I have Health and RegenHealth for some areas. That's about it, though.)
    Arti Tree Tattoo, Arti Shield Tattoo
    Artifact Gauntlet Lv. 2, offbal absorb + double mist chance

    Enhancements:
    Constitution, Intelligence, EQ, Blunt, Magic, 4% Max HP Augmetic

    HP: 5439
    Mana: 5452
    Dmg per hit: 1748 (type), magical. 3.01 EQ recovery
    (I use an alias that randomizes staff attacks.)
    Azudin Perks: Reconstitute/Miasma
    + High Reaver Satomi Lunare, Amethyst ------------------------------------+
    | Strength : 11 Dexterity : 14(+1) Timeout : xx minutes |
    | Intelligence : 17(+2) Constitution : 16(+4) Statpack : Wise |
    +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+

    You have the following tattoos:
    Head: Bell Uses left: 5
    Torso: Tree Permanent
    Left arm: Shield Permanent
    Right arm: Prism Uses left: 38
    Left leg: Hammer Uses left: 46
    Left leg: None
    Right leg: None
    Right leg: None

    Audit: (blue orb)
    +-- Resistances ------------------------+-- Avoidance -------------------------+
    Cutting | 49% 0% 46% 61% Dodge Chance | 13% 16%
    Blunt | 49% 0% 46% 61% Divert Chance | 29% 29%
    Magic | 35% 24% 0% 51% Divert Block | 6% 6%
    Fire | 35% 24% 0% 51% +-- Miscellaneous ---------------------+
    Cold | 35% 24% 0% 51% Experience Bonus | 10%
    Electric | 25% 24% 0% 43% Crit. Chance | 47.23%
    Poison | 25% 24% 0% 43% Celerity | 5 r/ps
    Psychic | 25% 24% 0% 43% Health Drain | 0
    Asphyxiation | 15% 24% 0% 35% Mana Drain | 0
    Spirit | 20% 0% 0% 20% Willpower Drain | 15
    Shadow | 25% 0% 0% 25% Endurance Drain | 4
    +------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
    Resistances: Defences, Miniskills, Armour
    Avoidance: PvP, PvE
    +------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

    Curing:
    Heal Health: ON (80%) (Force: 0%)
    Heal Mana: ON (80%) (Force: 15%)
    Vitals Priority: Health
    Using Anabiotic: ON (H:85%) (M:85%)
    Stop Mana Below: ON (30%)

    Starting Gear:
    Conjured Voidstaff, Arti Shield, My sexy, gorgeous, Iosyne dress, red/yellow/blue orbs

    + LEVEL --------------------------------| NEXT LEVEL ------------------------+
    | Azudim Lady of the 25th Circle (125) | 71.81% (8,425,139/11,733,700) |

    Gold: 25086
    Gauntlet: 0 mists

    Cache:
    -------------------------------- Pills ---------------------------------
    [1628] acuity [1546] amaurosis [ 662] anabiotic
    [1590] antipsychotic [1447] coagulation [1509] decongestant
    [1606] depressant [1340] euphoriant [1628] kawhepill
    [1125] opiate [1559] ototoxin [ 106] panacea
    [1086] paste [1654] steroid [ 635] stimulant
    [1648] thanatonin [ 127] waterbreathing
    ==============================[ Elixirs ]==============================
    [ 1400] an elixir of health [ 1000] an elixir of mana
    [ 1148] an elixir of levitation [ 1359] an elixir of immunity
    [ 1159] an elixir of antivenin [ 1124] an elixir of speed
    [ 1152] an elixir of frost [ 43] a purgative concoction
    ==============================[ Poultices ]==============================
    [ 1436] an epidermal poultice [ 234] a mending poultice
    [ 1400] a caloric poultice [ 1448] a restoration poultice
    [ 1354] a mass poultice

    Vials/Bandages:
    Elixirs
    [ 26] levitation [ 48] immunity [ 27] frost
    [ 28] antivenin [ 100] health [ 1] mana
    [ 18] speed
    [ 21] mending [ 41] epidermal [ 29] caloric
    [ 39] mass [ 47] restoration

    Timer: 9:05 PM Start-> 9:13(random d/c, about 20 seconds lost) -> 9:43 (midnight hit, became super charged 21 stats, 2055 dmg hits at 2.56 EQ with:) -> 9:45 (midnight ended, sadness) -> 9:48 (died to BS 3733 cold damage from Malevolence that bypassed insulation, lost 1% XP) -> 9:51 back in action -> 10:05 PM End

    -beef stats, temporary-
    + High Reaver Satomi Lunare, Amethyst ---------------------------------------+
    | Race: Undead Azudim | Health: 6961/7596 | Endurance: 26472/32205 |
    | Sex: Female | Mana: 5795/6580 | Willpower: 16122/33900 |

    Manual'd all but Fengard-
    Route: Tiyen Esityi Upper ( 86 corpses/1 corpse fed / 9:28 end ) -> Tiyen Esityi Lower ( 92 corpses / 9:55 end) ignored snakes/creature - Xaanhal Upper ( 2 corpses, omg, I left that. So pain. Almost died in both fights / 9:58 ) -> Fengard (autobashed this one. Obviously didn't complete it.) (34 corpses / 10:05 end)
    Also, I didn't bother doing the quests in Fengard, cause that's a whole other optimized route (one I'd actually make more money than doing all this bashing on, tbh) Fengard still nets me .01% a kill, so it's eh. I mainly go there for the quests. Also, I found some pills off the Ogres, so yay! :D

    Also, my Raceskill list: I have it all
    +----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+
    | 1 Point | 2 Point | 3 Point |
    +----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+
    | Air Stability | Chameleon | Burrowing |
    | Alcohol Resistance | Clinging | Forest Regen |
    | Blood Reserves | Dash | Heatsight |
    | Dig | Fire Breathing | Hide |
    | Fast Swimmer | Flight | Ice Breathing |
    | Forage | Gripping | Rock Crush |
    | Hover | Improved Forging | Rock Harvesting |
    | Improved Meditation | Improved Harvesting | Scent |
    | Selfishness | Leap | Underground Regen |
    | Swinging | Listening | Water Regen |
    | Underwater Breathing | Nightsight | Pacing |
    | | Stalking | Secrets |
    | | Tremor Sense | Revive |
    +----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+

    Post Bash Stats:

    + LEVEL --------------------------------| NEXT LEVEL ------------------------+
    | Azudim Lady of the 25th Circle (125) | 74.81% (8,777,659/11,733,700) |
    + RANKINGS -----------------------------+------------------------------------+

    Gold: 27269
    Gauntlet: 25 Mists - 800 Gold
    Total: 28069

    Cache:
    -------------------------------- Pills ---------------------------------
    [1628] acuity [1545] amaurosis [ 370] anabiotic
    [1590] antipsychotic [1422] coagulation [1509] decongestant
    [1606] depressant [1338] euphoriant [1628] kawhepill
    [1114] opiate [1557] ototoxin [ 106] panacea
    [1085] paste [1654] steroid [ 635] stimulant
    [1648] thanatonin [ 127] waterbreathing
    ==============================[ Elixirs ]==============================
    [ 1200] an elixir of health [ 950] an elixir of mana
    [ 1148] an elixir of levitation [ 1359] an elixir of immunity
    [ 1159] an elixir of antivenin [ 1124] an elixir of speed
    [ 1152] an elixir of frost [ 43] a purgative concoction

    ==============================[ Poultices ]==============================
    [ 1436] an epidermal poultice [ 234] a mending poultice
    [ 1350] a caloric poultice [ 1448] a restoration poultice
    [ 1354] a mass poultice

    Vials/Bandages:
    Elixirs
    [ 25] levitation [ 48] immunity [ 26] frost
    [ 27] antivenin [ 77] health [ 13] mana
    [ 17] speed
    [ 2] mending [ 41] epidermal [ 39] caloric
    [ 39] mass [ 47] restoration


    Conclusion:

    Route: Tiyen Upper -> Tiyen Lower -> Xaanhal Upper -> Fengard (details above)
    Corpse#: 215 Confirmed Kills
    Deaths: 1 Death
    Manual bashing up until Fengard

    EXP- Hilariously, I gained exactly 3% (4% without death)

    Gold Gain: 2983 gold - Total
    Gold Loss on Resupply: 2904 gold
    Net Gain: - 79 gold
    (this is without quests or turnins, because I genuinely have no idea where any of those are beyond Mamashi, Fengard, and the one in Lich Gardens, all of which would net me about 10k gold very quickly, by comparison to this, with far few resources used.)

    Pill Loss:
    292 Anabiotic - Costs 2628 to replace (cost of 9gp per, in Spines)
    1 Amaurosis - 6 gold to replace (6gp Spines)
    25 Coagulation - 150 gold to replace (6gp Spines)
    2 Euphoriant - 12 gold to replace (6gp Spines)
    11 Opiate - 66 gold to replace (6gp Spines)
    2 Ototoxin - 12 gold to replace (6gp Spines)
    1 Paste - 6 gold to replace (6gp Spines)

    Willpower Used: 54% (would be down to 46% WP if I hadn't died

    Elixir/Salve loss:
    223 Health Sips - 24 gold to replace 200 sips (6gp Spines)
    38 Mana Sips - Not worth replacing, but 6gp Spines would do it
    40 Caloric - Also semi-not worth replacing, but 10gp Spines would do it
    1 Levitation - left
    1 Frost - left
    1 Antivenin - left
    1 Speed - left
    19 Mending - To low to replace, but 8gp Spines

    If this is even remotely informative and useful, let me know. I'll hold off on doing the same for all the other classes, but yeah.. I only can do maybe 2 areas in an hour, maybe three depending on their size. Tiyen itself is an hour-long endeavor for me. If I just went for nothing but gold, I could clear Mamashi, do the Fengard stuff, and hit Lich in less than that time, net 10k gold, and maybe like 1k-2k to resupply at worst. And that's only if I decide to fight everything on the way. If I just focused the quest stuff, probably 500 on resupply? Maybe?

    This is also keeping in mind that pre-gold nerfs, Tiyen would get me about 10-20k gold. Xaanhal, about 10k. So maybe.. 20-30k in the span of 2 hours.

    Rhyot
  • EowynEowyn SomewhereMember Posts: 71 ✭✭✭
    Fresh bashing of Vortex. Usually takes about a hour for me. This is all Aztob NPCs, demons, treants, and turtles solely - did not touch Demonsbane.

    My items:
    hunt_ascendril(1) constitution(2) directory heal_bonus(2) whitesight enhancement(2) spirit_anchor equilibrium_recovery magic_potence(2) willpower enemy_expand(2) protection xpgain(2) hunt_shaman(1) enhanced_greenfoot atlas mana_boon ally_expand(1) intelligence(1) critical_chance(1), arti gauntlet/goggles, slippers of xon, idol active with orc power, hunter's tools set, starchart

    Buffs and Audit:

    Buffs: familiar spiritbond (familiar morph often to keep it alive), horn/bark fetish, ringmail, red/blue orbs, no amulets, tranq/forest/eldershaman oaths, greenfoot, blessing, all the other typical buffs (warmth/combat buffs).

    Audit:
    +-- Resistances ------------------------+-- Avoidance -------------------------+
    Cutting | 35% 0% 28% 50% Dodge Chance | 12% 15%
    Blunt | 45% 0% 28% 58% Divert Chance | 29% 29%
    Magic | 25% 24% 0% 49% Divert Block | 6% 6%
    Fire | 35% 24% 0% 56% +-- Miscellaneous ---------------------+
    Cold | 45% 24% 0% 62% Experience Bonus | 40%
    Electric | 25% 24% 0% 49% Crit. Chance | 49.23%
    Poison | 25% 24% 0% 49% Celerity | 10 r/ps
    Psychic | 15% 24% 0% 41% Health Drain | 0
    Asphyxiation | 15% 24% 0% 41% Mana Drain | 0
    Spirit | 25% 0% 0% 32% Willpower Drain | 30
    Shadow | 15% 0% 0% 23% Endurance Drain | 4
    +------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

    | Race: Yeleni | Health: 6559/6559 | Endurance: 29383/29400 |
    | Sex: Female | Mana: 6618/6618 | Willpower: 30840/30900 |

    Level: 130 59.5-ish% (forgot to score before I started)

    + Curator Eowyn Cardinalis -----------------------------------------------+
    | Strength : 11 Dexterity : 13 Timeout : XX minutes |
    | Intelligence : 19(+4) Constitution : 18(+5) Statpack : Intelligent |

    Enhancements:
    Stats
    - Intelligence
    - Constitution
    Speed
    - Equilibrium
    Protection
    - Cutting
    Stamina
    - Willpower
    Augmetic
    - 4% Max Health
    - Faster Movement


    Curatives starting:
    ==============================[ Elixirs ]==============================
    [ 1360] an elixir of mana [ 829] an elixir of immunity
    [ 746] an elixir of antivenin [ 962] an elixir of speed
    [ 830] an elixir of frost [ 757] an elixir of levitation
    [ 1195] an elixir of health
    ==============================[ Poultices ]==============================
    [ 777] an epidermal poultice [ 835] a mending poultice
    [ 1018] a caloric poultice [ 1138] a restoration poultice
    [ 1000] a mass poultice

    Vial Elixir Sips Decay time
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    vial289186 an elixir of immunity 39 A
    vial289195 an elixir of health 42 A
    vial289547 an elixir of mana 15 A
    vial289557 an elixir of frost 37 A
    vial289560 an elixir of antivenin 38 A
    vial289562 an elixir of speed 6 A
    vial289548 an elixir of levitation 54 A

    Bandage Poultice Presses Decay
    ---------------------------------------------------------------
    bandage290380 mending 27 23
    bandage290383 mass 15 19
    bandage290391 epidermal 11 17
    bandage290410 restoration 16 13
    bandage290412 caloric 7 26

    -------------------------------- Pills ---------------------------------
    [1313] acuity [1389] amaurosis [1655] anabiotic
    [1161] antipsychotic [1027] coagulation [ 964] decongestant
    [1237] depressant [1189] euphoriant [ 909] kawhepill
    [ 951] opiate [1378] ototoxin [1218] panacea
    [ 618] paste [2000] somnium [1138] steroid
    [1306] stimulant [1055] thanatonin [ 933] waterbreathing

    Gauntlet before:
    An ornate venantium-chased gauntlet is storing:
    - 228 coalescences of red mist.
    - 217 coalescences of green mist.
    - 159 coalescences of blue mist.
    - 103 coalescences of yellow mist.
    - 32 coalescences of white mist.

    Damage output: After 3 energy, 1910 at 2.8 secs. Build up by commune lightning three times and then boost for more/faster damage. Pre-boost is 1737 at 3.23 secs. 3 energy build is to trigger horn fetish to recovery wp. Not newbie-friendly.
    Damage taken: anywhere from 600-2k per mob. Some attacking at the same time. Use shield and/or shift when health gets low. Use tree for some afflictions. Let's say 1/4 of tree and shield used per run.

    Curatives ending:

    ==============================[ Elixirs ]==============================
    [ 1360] an elixir of mana [ 829] an elixir of immunity
    [ 746] an elixir of antivenin [ 862] an elixir of speed
    [ 830] an elixir of frost [ 757] an elixir of levitation
    [ 895] an elixir of health
    ==============================[ Poultices ]==============================
    [ 727] an epidermal poultice [ 785] a mending poultice
    [ 1018] a caloric poultice [ 1138] a restoration poultice
    [ 1000] a mass poultice

    Vial Elixir Sips Decay time
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    vial289186 an elixir of immunity 27 A
    vial289195 an elixir of health 41 A
    vial289547 an elixir of mana 14 A
    vial289557 an elixir of frost 37 A
    vial289560 an elixir of antivenin 38 A
    vial289562 an elixir of speed 28 A
    vial289548 an elixir of levitation 54 A

    Bandage Poultice Presses Decay
    ---------------------------------------------------------------
    bandage290380 mending 46 23
    bandage290383 mass 2 19
    bandage290391 epidermal 44 17
    bandage290410 restoration 16 13
    bandage290412 caloric 7 26

    Glancing into the cache, you see:
    -------------------------------- Pills ---------------------------------
    [1313] acuity [1392] amaurosis [1532] anabiotic
    [1164] antipsychotic [1030] coagulation [ 877] decongestant
    [1202] depressant [1147] euphoriant [ 912] kawhepill
    [ 954] opiate [1381] ototoxin [1221] panacea
    [ 621] paste [2000] somnium [1141] steroid
    [1309] stimulant [1058] thanatonin [ 936] waterbreathing


    Gauntlet post:
    An ornate venantium-chased gauntlet is storing:
    - 236 coalescences of red mist.
    - 217 coalescences of green mist.
    - 160 coalescences of blue mist.
    - 104 coalescences of yellow mist.
    - 32 coalescences of white mist.

    XP After: 64.65 (gain of around 5-6%)
    NPC Gold dropped: 1881
    Quest gold attained (might have missed some npcs for turnin since I used autobash, turning in 4 quests): 1680
    Total gold gain: 3561

    Elixirs used: Immunity 12, health 301, mana 1, mending 51, epidermal 17
    Cost: 5-8g per fill Total: Approx 400 sips total used, 2000-3200 gold

    Pills used: Anabiotic 123, decongestant 87, depressant 35, euphoriant 42
    Cost: 5-15 gold per pill Total: 287 pills total used, 1435-4305 gold

    Inks: 6 green, 2 red
    Cost: 4-5 gold each Total: 8 inks, 32-40 gold

    Total cost: 1667-7545 gold, average 4606. Net loss on average: 1045 gold.

    I'm considered a 'whale', I guess. I imagine someone without my artis would use a whole lot more mana and anabiotic. And if pills ever have to rise in price to meet actual supply/demand of ash/ice, since that is pricier than gold, we will be looking at a far larger net loss.
    Rhyot
  • NahuaqueNahuaque Member Posts: 23 ✭✭
    I was under the impression that when they nerfed gold drops the intent was to make it non-profitable so that we would have to either quest, craft, or fish in order to actually make gold.

    @Tiur or @Razmael is this not the case? I suppose I am just unclear on what way bashing is intended to profit a character. Is bashing meant to be trading gold for XP, breaking even, or netting you a profit in both gold and experience and if so how much?

    @teani provides an interesting example of gold drops on what we would consider a low level (since everyone is endgame) and unartifacted character turning a profit while hunting, though it is certainly not a large profit. The answer to whether or not this is "enough" gold is going to depend on what the admin intend bashing to be. To me it seems like enough gold.
  • ZailaZaila Pacific TimeMember Posts: 340 ✭✭✭✭
    I don't know about what people consider "reasonable profit" but 500 gold in 30 minutes seems pretty reasonable to me considering you are also gaining the XP which you, theoretically, are in it for as well.
    Nahuaque
  • SatomiSatomi Member Posts: 299 ✭✭✭
    I mean, I don't bother bashing anymore except for when I am just in the mood. I gain more from fishing than I do from bashing or questing, in that when I fish, I gain gold + xp. When I bash, I gain xp. When I quest, if they aren't completed, I gain gold. Plus, I don't even have to pay attention to fish. Questing is really just for when I need gold this instant, these days.

    I mean, I could probably net around 1 million gold over the course of an entire level from fishing. 500k at the very least. It'd just take me like.. a month to do it, lol.

  • TozToz Member Posts: 2,248 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Zaila said:

    I don't know about what people consider "reasonable profit" but 500 gold in 30 minutes seems pretty reasonable to me considering you are also gaining the XP which you, theoretically, are in it for as well.

    Why would anyone be in bashing for the XP past level 100? The trouble for that is a little multi-faceted now, too.

    1) is the fundamental worthlessness of XP. I'm level 123, I would have to die 2,400 times before it ever reached the point that I cared, because then I'd drop below 100. And if I die 2,400 times without killing anybody (and killing someone is worth more than 1% XP), I deserve to lose reconstitute/miasma.

    2) There are a significant amount of bashing artifacts. Tons, loads, heaps. +crit, +bashing damage for each class, +overkill_extend. All of those are only good for accumulating XP. In the absence of a reason to desire XP, those artifacts are devalued, which in turn is going to effect credit sales. In the past, people would buy +bashing artifacts in order to gain gold faster IG, and for gathering XP. But with XP not really doing anything, and the saturation of players who are level 110+ and thus don't even really need raceskills/haven points, bashing artifacts aren't filling any niche whatsoever.

    3) Promotions are based on value for the things they drop. For example, say chocolates are valued at 5 credits. In a world where bashing is 'only XP', chocolates are no longer worth nearly so much. No one but @Rhyot buys them right now, really, because why bash? XP loss at higher tiers is brutal too, Rhyot dying once is going to set him back hours and hours (and again, doesn't get him anything except a further ahead lead). If Rhyot is barely interested in bashing and doing so just out of habit, and @Trikal doesn't seem to find much use for it (the two people really far ahead on the leaderboards), that's indicative of poor health and means that promo items that work for bashing are going to do poorly too, because you can't get rid of the damn things. There are a ton of relics, compendium pages and chocolates out there right now from this wave of the Wheel, and...what's the point? Who is even buying them and why, if all it gets them is a meaningless +1 that gets increasingly hard to hold?

    4) This thread was made by @Rhyot. The guy who got level 205. Who bashes like constantly. This is like an RPer going 'what is the point in even emoting?' or a PKer wondering why he bothers even stocking cures. Plenty of other people who bash, or traditionally bash, are weighing in going 'why are we doing this?' because, as it turns out, most were not actually really that interested in bashing for XP. They wanted the gold that came with it.

    Bashing is a chore, for most of us. But, it's also the eternal hand crank of MUDs. Grind goes in, gold/xp comes out. When you change that, you have to rebalance an absurd amount of things, starting with the promos, and the bashing artifacts (because who cares?) - do you make them do something else? Do you leave them and accept they won't really sell well? Do you hope that you acquire some Rhyot-esque masochists who don't mind losing gold at higher tier bashing zones? Alright so you solved the bashing artifacts, and the promos are different now. What about all that XP people 'want' for whatever reason? Are you going to reward them? Or do you just let those bashing areas sit empty until a newbie comes along for someone to power-level again?

    Quests aren't really gated by artifacts. You can't buy something to quest 'faster' outside of like wings, and even then it's not a huge edge. There's no stat gain, no boosts to buy, no purchasing power to give you an edge. And, outside of chasing the mob/items/etc. there's also not really any competition to it. It's just more tedious 'gold bashing' because it's harder to script. Goto 12314, get spear, goto 123115 give spear to that guy who loses it every 15 minutes. And then on to the next room. Maybe it's bash x mobs, turn in to y person. Now people are generating gold sure, but they're not 1) using bashing grounds, 2) using bashing buffs, or 3) buying bashing artifacts to generate gold better. So IRE shoots themselves in the foot too. It's not like there's a Great Quest event.

    And finally, 5) there are people saying 'hey I bash for this and do not find it worthwhile' - while I'm not surprised in the slightest to see the traditional nay-sayers, I do applaud you for standing up for an activity you relish so dearly as I see you in hunting grounds nonstop.

    I'm not particularly interested in engaging with the crowd further about it either, so I'm stopping here and going back to toggling on my forum ignores- I think I've outlined my points (and why this thread is nice to have) well enough that the people I want to understand, do.

    And now, as someone with absolutely no admin power, I invite everyone to continue their regularly scheduled bashing checks. I think we're missing a few lowbies weighing in (with @Oonagh being +eq) and maybe some top tier bashers tearing through lower levels to see if that winds up actually being worth more gold (which would, admittedly, be funny).

    Otherwise, as far as data gathering go, I'd be interested in seeing what the admin's expected results/thoughts are, so far.

    Arbre-Today at 7:27 PM

    You're a vindictive lil unicorn
    ---------------------------

    Lartus-Today at 7:16 PM

    oh wait, toz is famous
    ---------------------------

    Karhast-Today at 7:01 PM

    You're a singularity of unicorns awfulness Toz
    RhyotNahuaqueKodaOonagh
  • SatomiSatomi Member Posts: 299 ✭✭✭
    Food is a non-issue for vampires, funny enough. But to mirror Toz's comments, the only motivation I'd have to continue Bashing in any aggressive manner is a potential to have some sparkly power like @Rhyot has. That'd lower the uniqueness of his achievement, though.. but yeah. Honestly, my only reason for bashing as hard as I do is to get gold to buy minipets. >.>

  • ZailaZaila Pacific TimeMember Posts: 340 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 11
    500 in 30 minutes.
    Not 500 in a day. Not even an hour. 500 in 30 minutes. This means that, over the course of a day, you could, conceivably, gain a lot more than 500. Even if you only did this a couple times a day, you're going to net a lot more than 500.

    I'm not suggesting that's "the best gold in the game" or anything like that, I'm saying "that seems perfectly reasonable for an activity that you're presumably doing for some reason other than strictly farming gold". If you're not enjoying it for the sake of the activity and you're not doing it for the honours lines/offering quota/XP/Personal entertainment, then just go beetle and you'll make a lot more than that.

    *Edited for unnecessary length that didn't add anything substantial other than acknowledgement of Toz's reply*

    What gold per 30 minutes of game play feels reasonable to other folks? Should I create a separate poll thread for this? I didn't expect answering someone else's question on this to create such a lengthy post in response.

    Related question that I sincerely don't know the answer to and would like to know as well:
    Other than questing (which other new players have pointed out they struggle with in other threads) what other IC activity can you engage in that doesn't require a credit investment (e.g. fishing) that you will gain 500 gold/30 minutes? (theft/begging aside, obviously)
    Post edited by Zaila on
  • SaritaSarita Empress of Bahir'an The Pillars of the EarthMember, Guildmaster Posts: 701 ✭✭✭✭✭
    These stats are from an alt I have, no significant artifacts. It's post endgame, but probably pretty standard otherwise.


    str - 17 (+3)
    int - 12
    dex - 14 (+1)
    con - 16 (+3)

    Ievel (104) | 51.81% (2181907/4211728)

    Starting out


    Buffs: white amulet, safeguard, general Praenomen defs, shield/armor, all the orrery bonuses

    +-- Resistances ------------------------+-- Avoidance -------------------------+
    Cutting | 25% 0% 22% 33% Dodge Chance | 0% 0%
    Blunt | 35% 0% 22% 42% Divert Chance | 16% 16%
    Magic | 15% 0% 0% 15% Divert Block | 19% 19%
    Fire | 15% 0% 0% 15% +-- Miscellaneous ---------------------+
    Cold | 15% 0% 0% 15% Experience Bonus | 20%
    Electric | 15% 0% 0% 15% Crit. Chance | 47.23%
    Poison | 5% 0% 0% 5% Celerity | 5 r/p.5s
    Psychic | 5% 0% 0% 5% Health Drain | 0
    Asphyxiation | 5% 0% 0% 5% Mana Drain | 0
    Spirit | 10% 0% 0% 10% Willpower Drain | 15
    Shadow | 15% 0% 0% 15% Endurance Drain | 0
    +------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
    Resistances: Defences, Miniskills, Armour
    Avoidance: PvP, PvE
    +------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

    enhancements
    You have invested 5 enhancement points and have 0 remaining to use.
    You have invested 0 augmetic enhancement points and have 0 remaining to use.
    You have obtained the following enhancements:
    Stats
    - Strength
    - Constitution
    Speed
    - Balance
    Protection
    - Blunt
    Stamina
    - Experience (1x)

    A ylem-binding gauntlet of the Parxian Order is storing:
    - 56 coalescences of red mist.
    - 35 coalescences of green mist.
    - 18 coalescences of blue mist.
    - 21 coalescences of yellow mist.
    - 8 coalescences of white mist.

    ==============================[ Elixirs ]==============================
    [ 500] an elixir of health [ 773] an elixir of mana
    [ 310] an elixir of levitation [ 700] an elixir of immunity
    [ 310] an elixir of antivenin [ 310] an elixir of speed
    [ 310] an elixir of frost

    ==============================[ Poultices ]==============================
    [ 177] an epidermal poultice [ 1073] a mending poultice
    [ 248] a caloric poultice [ 250] a restoration poultice
    [ 250] a mass poultice

    elixlist
    Vial Elixir Sips Decay time
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    vial216466 an elixir of immunity 56 A
    vial217066 an elixir of health 94 A
    vial231054 an elixir of mana 7 33
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    bandagelist
    Bandage Poultice Presses Decay
    ---------------------------------------------------------------
    bandage56936 epidermal 29 56
    bandage292011 mending 49 55
    bandage293010 restoration 50 60
    bandage299911 caloric 6 63
    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    Glancing into the cache, you see:
    -------------------------------- Pills ---------------------------------
    [1520] acuity [1570] amaurosis [1913] anabiotic
    [1128] antipsychotic [1260] coagulation [1532] decongestant
    [1554] depressant [1345] euphoriant [1578] kawhepill
    [1328] opiate [1574] ototoxin [ 57] panacea
    [1119] paste [1590] steroid [1578] stimulant
    [1583] thanatonin [ 29] waterbreathing



    Bashed in the ylem mines, drakuum, and about 1/3 of fengard in the hour. 1 starburst.

    14 eld

    21 apparition
    22 spirit
    1 lich
    16 shade
    15 darkwalker
    2 hound
    1 priest

    18 basilwyrm
    17 construct
    6 knight
    17 ogre
    16 grimshrill
    1 grollum
    5 argobole
    5 garwhol
    8 phenkyre
    7 lumore
    1 lichosphere
    7 invoker



    Ending stuff

    level (104) | 55.65% (2343652/4211728)

    A ylem-binding gauntlet of the Parxian Order is storing:
    - 59 coalescences of red mist.
    - 39 coalescences of green mist.
    - 21 coalescences of blue mist.
    - 21 coalescences of yellow mist.
    - 10 coalescences of white mist.

    ==============================[ Elixirs ]==============================
    [ 200] an elixir of health [ 723] an elixir of mana
    [ 310] an elixir of levitation [ 700] an elixir of immunity
    [ 310] an elixir of antivenin [ 310] an elixir of speed
    [ 310] an elixir of frost

    ==============================[ Poultices ]==============================
    [ 177] an epidermal poultice [ 1073] a mending poultice
    [ 248] a caloric poultice [ 250] a restoration poultice
    [ 250] a mass poultice

    elixlist
    Vial Elixir Sips Decay time
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    vial216466 an elixir of immunity 56 A
    vial217066 an elixir of health 97 A
    vial231054 an elixir of mana 27 33
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    bandagelist
    Bandage Poultice Presses Decay
    ---------------------------------------------------------------
    bandage56936 epidermal 20 55
    bandage292011 mending 14 54
    bandage293010 restoration 50 59
    bandage299911 caloric 2 63
    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    -------------------------------- Pills ---------------------------------
    [1520] acuity [1573] amaurosis [1829] anabiotic
    [1131] antipsychotic [1263] coagulation [1535] decongestant
    [1554] depressant [1337] euphoriant [1578] kawhepill
    [1327] opiate [1577] ototoxin [ 60] panacea
    [1128] paste [1593] steroid [1578] stimulant
    [1586] thanatonin [ 29] waterbreathing

    2392 gold, of which 1000 was from the ylem mine quest


    Total net gains/losses

    Experience: + 3.84%

    Ylem mist: +12 (I think that's ~360 gold?)

    Elixirs and poultices: - 297 health, - 30 mana, - 9 epidermal, - 35 mending, - 4 caloric
    Prices: health (10gp) mana (9gp) epidermal (9gp) mending (10gp) caloric (10gp)
    With rounding: health (60gp) mana (9gp) mending (10gp)

    Anabiotic: - 84
    Price: 12
    Total price: 1008
    I'm not counting others because I can make them all, plus I picked up some random ones that dropped from mobs.

    Gold:
    Gained: 2752
    Spent: 1087
    Net: + 1665 (665 if I hadn't done the ylem mine quest in there)


    Overall: I would say this is definitely a squishy character. I had to do a lot of hit and running, especially in drakuum, which is listed as a level 85 area. The exp gain obviously isn't the same as those artied people get, but it's not terrible. I would have ended up with less gold if I didn't have any herbalism skill. Other forms of getting gold would be a lot more profitable, but nearly all of them either have a high initial beginning cost (fishing!), or have a steeper learning curve (questing.) There are always vermin, but that has to be the most boring part of the game, and it can easily turn people off if it's their best option. It's been a while since I had a new character, but I do seem to remember them spending a lot more of their gold on things like food and getting set up in general. The academy helps a bit, but from what other people have been saying, there definitely seems to be a gap in the amount of gold that's easy for new and lower level players. Having a tighter economy at the expense of those kinds of players seems really counterproductive to me.
  • SatomiSatomi Member Posts: 299 ✭✭✭
    edited April 11
    Clearly I don't know where to bash, because I made less than 100 gold in an hour's time bashing. Either way, quests is the only reasonable way to make gold if you don't want to invest into anything.

    That was probably the intent, but I think this thread is drifting away from not making enough gold while bashing to bashing giving no real 'reward' to the basher, and being a general waste of time after you reach 100. (though, I bashed up to 120 just for all the racial skills)

  • IstelaIstela Member Posts: 26 ✭✭
    Okay lovelies, time to add my piece.

    I am at level 107, my health on a GOOD day is just a bit over 5100 in the syssin class. Cool beans. I can tear through an entire cache worth of anabiotic in just a few hours. Just because I am a squish machine, same with my health and mana. (certain afflictions I shrug off.)

    Now people saying Crafting is a good means of making gold...Sure is, if you have the gold to get started and the people to sell it to. Lets not even mention the costs of cloth for that amazing dress you see in a shop, or oh hey I made this pretty earring but the gold is all sold out because apothecary use it, same can be said of silver.

    Needless to say to gold nerf and comm nerf has really actually been a pain in the unicorns for people that do craft. I have spent so much gold trying to cover 5 crafting skills (nope I don't have a problem thank you!)

    Questing! While this is an...okay-ish source of gold, you are limited to how often you can do some, and well unfortunately for it to make a decent turn, you would be questing for literal days to get yourself stocked. Not to mention some areas are for a certain hp or higher. (Damn my luck only having 5100 health.) I have actually had to borrow artifacts just to clear one quest area to not die, which was still more of a loss in the end than a gain.

    Then there is hunting. I take novices out and occasionally hunt them up, I will do all the works, chocolates, chalice, orbs, pylon manipulation and book...Ok experience is a go, but the gold leaves more to be desired. in one run of Tiyen, I use a lot of anabiotic because I have to flee. Then I can easily blow through 1000 health there. Thankfully I have a perma tree otherwise I have to replace that, 5 green inks per tree. Then you have the mending and the caloric and the yarrow usage which fine and dandy I harvest, and I have gloves. but on a scale of ok what if I -don't-? Yarrow sells at 9 gp as do all the other smokables and anabiotic in the guild shop. I pay 8 gp for health and 9 gp for caloric. So once I figure out how to track this I will get you a number for a non artifact dex based syssin with a typical statpack no chocolates no orbs no boons. I fall on the low end due to the health. So let this begin.
  • IstelaIstela Member Posts: 26 ✭✭
    edited April 11
    Starting pills:
    [1956] anabiotic

    Ending pills:
    [1766] anabiotic

    TOTAL PILL USAGE:
    Anabiotic: 190 - 1,710 gold to replace

    Elixers:

    [ 1497] an elixir of health [ 1453] an elixir of mana

    Ending Elixers:

    [ 1147] an elixir of health [ 1353] an elixir of mana

    Poultices:
    [ 1488] an epidermal poultice [ 1150] a mending poultice
    [ 1436] a caloric poultice [ 1200] a restoration poultice
    Ending Poultices:
    [ 1100] a mending poultice

    Elixers used:
    Health: 400 - 32 gold
    Mana: 150- 24 gold (had a full bandage as well :) )
    mending: 50 - 9 gold


    Start time: 7:51 am
    End time: 8:51 am
    Gold starting 160,304
    Gold ending: 161,996
    Profits: 1,692 gold
    Expenses:
    1,775
    Overall gold: -187
    Health: 5132
    Deaths: 1
    Starburst: 2
    Areas:
    Tiyen
    deformed Nazetu priest: 8
    a Nazetu halberdier: 19
    Nazetu Necromancer: 8
    Bound Shade: 17
    Cancerous stallion: 2
    Nazetu Captain: 5
    Lieutenant Gharvoi
    Kuius
    Nazetu Provost: 9
    Lieutenant Chiakhi
    Marakhi
    Supply officer: 4
    Nazetu crossbowman: 11
    Nazetu Cutter: 5
    Tirahl the Necromancer
    Nazetu intercessor: 17
    tangible malevolence: 2
    A ball of chitinous legs: 5
    Nazetu Corrupter: 9
    insubstantial whispers: 4
    victimised intruder: 8

    Total kills: 127
    Rhyot
  • EliadonEliadon Somewhere Over the RainbowMember Posts: 98 ✭✭✭
    edited April 11
    Zaila said:


    Related question that I sincerely don't know the answer to and would like to know as well:
    Other than questing (which other new players have pointed out they struggle with in other threads) what other IC activity can you engage in that doesn't require a credit investment (e.g. fishing) that you will gain 500 gold/30 minutes? (theft/begging aside, obviously)

    Vermin.

    Vermin is better gold than bashing by a very significant margin. How significant? Not sure yet, but it's a lot more than 500 in 30 mins. Will test when I have a moment.

    500 gold gain in 30 minutes is also significantly more than the average - Teani was hunting low level things, and I'm pretty sure the admin wouldn't be happy with us starving lowbies of xp by bashing all those zones. I'm going to try that too, though =[
    NahuaqueZaila
  • TeaniTeani Evening Sky SwedenMember Posts: 1,932 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The only reason I went to Teshen was because it was a place I was fairly certain I wouldn't die in, without any experience bashing with this character and class in RL years. I also know it is considered a place that is fairly good for bashing, because of the quick respawn. Not very impressed with the mere 8% XP gained, but that's probably because I have never enjoyed bashing and can think of a -lot- of things that are far more interesting to do in the game than that.

    In short, I felt like aside from getting enough gold to at least buy one outfit of the lowest-prices clothes on the Enorian market (and that means basic coverage only), it was a waste of time, utterly boring, and not worth the effort. If I had had company, maybe, or had a goal, this attitude might have changed some, but my reason for bashing on that char was only to gather data.



  • EliadonEliadon Somewhere Over the RainbowMember Posts: 98 ✭✭✭
    edited April 12
    20 minutes of extremely lazy Vermin hunting in city:

    11 corpses of a tainted black snake, 45 corpses of a tainted seagull.
    [Gold]: You have gained 1680 gold.

    Lazy vermining, 5040 gold per hour.


    ----------

    20 minutes of sewer-included vermining (also very lazy):

    15 corpses of a tainted seagull, 49 corpses of a tainted black snake.
    [Gold]: You have gained 1920 gold.

    Approximately 5760 gold per hour.


    Hunting vermin is officially more worthy of a time investment than bashing for me.. yay?
    Post edited by Eliadon on
    Zaila
  • TekiasTekias WisconsinMember Posts: 150 ✭✭✭
    Hunted pinchers in the Spirean sewers for 1 hour while as Shapeshifter, no bashing artis and just Overkill to make it go faster

    7 sips of Health lost (aggro crickets)

    Ghada almost snatches the vermin from your hands. Holding them close to her chest, she glares balefully at her surroundings as she utters vehemently, "I'm sure this batch might produce the needed results!" Jamming a hand into a pocket, she then thrusts 4945 gold under your nose. "Here, take them!"

    Admittedly, I was waiting till I got all five vermin in each room rather than moving on if it stalled out.
    Formerly: Spiegel. Eidycue.

    Hi.
    Eliadon
  • TiurTiur Producer Member, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 405 admin
    Okay, as soon as my new glasses come in, I'm making a chart. Y axis will be gold, x axis will be exp. Then we'll point plot areas, with vermin being the extreme at 5kgold, ~0exp, and the other side being our biggest bashing area with the least amount of sentients. With that, we can try to build a curve.

    Anyone that references the Laffer Curve will be banned.
    OonaghZaila
  • OonaghOonagh Member Posts: 33 ✭✭✭
    Why is it called a Laffer Curve.....if its shaped like a frown. :(

    Oonagh has been slain by the might of the toxic atmosphere of Ulangi.
    Shachalai
  • ShachalaiShachalai Member Posts: 96 ✭✭✭
    Tiur said:

    Okay, as soon as my new glasses come in, I'm making a chart. Y axis will be gold, x axis will be exp. Then we'll point plot areas, with vermin being the extreme at 5kgold, ~0exp, and the other side being our biggest bashing area with the least amount of sentients. With that, we can try to build a curve.

    Anyone that references the Laffer Curve will be banned.

    Thanks for the insight, boss.

    It's nice when this info...

    B)

    Trickles down.
    SatomiKodaOonagh
  • TozToz Member Posts: 2,248 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Tiur one thing to consider too I think is that chocolates have an 8 hour duration, and if they don't boost your gold gain rate by more than they cost before they expire, you're going to need to revalue them and reweigh drop rates - no one will be buying chocolates at a gold loss except the oddball like @Rhyot - gold generation needs to increase proportionally to investment to make it worth buying, or promos are going to run into trouble.

    Arbre-Today at 7:27 PM

    You're a vindictive lil unicorn
    ---------------------------

    Lartus-Today at 7:16 PM

    oh wait, toz is famous
    ---------------------------

    Karhast-Today at 7:01 PM

    You're a singularity of unicorns awfulness Toz
  • TiurTiur Producer Member, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 405 admin
    Toz said:

    @Tiur one thing to consider too I think is that chocolates have an 8 hour duration, and if they don't boost your gold gain rate by more than they cost before they expire, you're going to need to revalue them and reweigh drop rates - no one will be buying chocolates at a gold loss except the oddball like @Rhyot - gold generation needs to increase proportionally to investment to make it worth buying, or promos are going to run into trouble.

    I see what you did there, trying to get my attention with those promotion rewards :tongue:

    I'd actually rather delete chocolates related to gold, always seemed weird to me.
    Toz
  • TozToz Member Posts: 2,248 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I actually did some napkin numbers yesterday while doing my usual tilt in the Aetolia Discord. There are a lot of bashing buffs for sale, and an economy built around bashing better to generate more gold. Turn the gold crank better right? Quests though are (mostly) artifact neutral and chocolate neutral. So there's a disconnect now where bashing arties/promo consolation prizes are not worth it even if you put in the effort for them, right? Like you can spin the xp crank but it's not really used for anything. At 3cr/chocolate (low pay range traditionally?) And 6 chocolates, you'd be pretty buffed and out 18cr (3*6) * 6000 gold/cr = 108000 gold spent for an 8 hour buff. If you don't crank for more than 108k in 8 hours (13500/hr gold gain), chocolates aren't really worth because you could just sell those credits at 6k and bash normally.

    Again these are just napkin numbers so feel free to correct me. I'd wager that +hunt arties are in the same boat? Why buy +crit when it's never gonna pay itself off no matter how hard I work?

    If xp turns out meaning something, I think the static xp loss for bashing also is going to cause issue - you don't really get "better" level to level after 100, but you gamble more and more xp per death.

    So I guess also cap xp lost in pve outside of enemy cities to proportional of like 45 min of bashing for each level or... something. It's an unenviable task to make all these numbers flush and fair, I've got the easy job of sitting here whining about it. Hopefully though my math is good?

    Arbre-Today at 7:27 PM

    You're a vindictive lil unicorn
    ---------------------------

    Lartus-Today at 7:16 PM

    oh wait, toz is famous
    ---------------------------

    Karhast-Today at 7:01 PM

    You're a singularity of unicorns awfulness Toz
  • RhyotRhyot BloodlochMember Posts: 220 ✭✭✭
    One thing that I noticed that Teani didn't put into her data sheet was the cost of replacing all the pills she just used. So if you consider the cost of a single anabiotic pill being 10 gold, she spent the "500 profit in 30 minutes" on replacing the 50 anabiotic pills she used to assist her in staying alive.. and that's not taking into account the other pills she very likely used to remove afflictions and the cost to replace those. I could be wrong though, and she could have chosen to completely forego utilizing any pills. Which, if that was the case, congrats to her for being able to bash a zone without having much harm come to her.

    That said, @Toz pointed that out. A lot of people, if they wanted to bash for gold could very well choose to bash smaller areas that they won't even have to cure in because the regens would solve everything on its. Nobody should have to resort to bashing level 20 areas just to make gold because then what are the lower level players supposed to bash? Likewise, if all the low level areas are constantly being bashed, we develop the same problem as before where gold gain is painfully hard because of curative costs/time investments. Additionally, you should be able to make a profit from any venue, which was the whole premise and thought process of this thread.

    In reality, experience doesn't do anything beyond compare your activity vs the world (PVE/PVP). So to say that experience has value is null and void. Sure, there is a small range of rewards to a certain extent when it comes to experience (haven points, augmetic/enhancements), but after that... nothing. It's just a number that determines some modicum of worth in RANKINGS and just a number that increases as you level, adding more threat to how much xp you lose when you die. At level 206, 1% of my level is 6.1M xp.


    That said, I'm going to spend tonight bashing as a Teradrim and remove all of my artifacts (yes, every single one of them because they all need to be worn to be usable) and run around as a pure non-artifacted Teradrim and set my anabiotic up to 80% use (cause I doubt I can keep it at 35% if I'm going around unartifacted) and post the numbers I get for multiple areas and post the data sheets (which will include: curative usage, curative cost replacement, xp gain, gold gain, audit, stats). Hopefully this will help Tiur with his data sheet and data analysis.

    In the meantime, I still would ask that everyone to continue to provide their statistics and data after an hour of bashing.

    Zaila
  • EliadonEliadon Somewhere Over the RainbowMember Posts: 98 ✭✭✭
    edited April 13
    Tiur said:

    Okay, as soon as my new glasses come in, I'm making a chart. Y axis will be gold, x axis will be exp. Then we'll point plot areas, with vermin being the extreme at 5kgold, ~0exp, and the other side being our biggest bashing area with the least amount of sentients. With that, we can try to build a curve.

    Anyone that references the Laffer Curve will be banned.

    With this in mind...

    What about all the other activities that give you exp and gold?

    How much exp/gold can I gain per hour of fishing? According to a few folks I've asked, it's 100% safe gold and on par with uncontested vermin, with 100% safe exp.

    How much exp/gold can I get if I run quests while no one's competing for them? How about while people are competing for them?

    edit: I feel like I digressed with the last line below, all I wanted to get across with this was that those ^ should be included on the graph.

    Why would I ever bash when I can just gain 100% safe with no chance of death exp (especially the higher level folks like @Trikal and @Rhyot who lose like 1-4 hours of bashing xp) from questing or fishing, especially when it requires significantly more artifact investment to be good at it? Those kinds of questions. :\
    Post edited by Eliadon on
    RhyotZaila
  • RhyotRhyot BloodlochMember Posts: 220 ✭✭✭
    So, I removed all my artifacts related to hunting and defense. Gotta say, I see why everyone gets frustrated with bashing unartifacted. That said... here you go:

    Curing setup:

    Sip precache - 2 kidney_mana - 80 shieldup - 30 kidney_health - 80 mana - 80 autoclot - 400 health - 80 Grimstim pill: Active Orbs: Yellow/Blue/Red


    Forgotten Mausoleum:

    Start time: 730 PM End time: 805 PM Area Status: Did not complete Class: Teradrim Stats: | Strength : 16(+2) Dexterity : 14(+1) | | Intelligence : 11(-1) Constitution : 16(+3) Audit: +-- Resistances ------------------------+-- Avoidance -------------------------+ Cutting | 20% 0% 65% 46% Dodge Chance | 0% 0% Blunt | 20% 0% 62% 45% Divert Chance | 33% 33% Magic | 10% 24% 0% 32% Divert Block | 21% 21% Fire | 20% 24% 0% 39% +-- Miscellaneous ---------------------+ Cold | 20% 24% 0% 39% Experience Bonus | 95% def Electric | 10% 24% 0% 32% Crit. Chance | 56.23% Poison | 20% 24% 0% 39% Celerity | 8 r/ps Psychic | 20% 24% 0% 39% Health Drain | 0 Asphyxiation | 10% 24% 0% 32% Mana Drain | 0 Spirit | 15% 0% 0% 15% Willpower Drain | 15 Shadow | 20% 0% 0% 20% Endurance Drain | 0 +------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Resistances: Defences, Miniskills, Armour Avoidance: PvP, PvE +------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Pills used (via curative tracking code): opiate = 0, depressant = 0, anti = 0, anabiotic = 170, coagulation = 49, mana = 26, imm = 0, frost = 0, health = 180, levi = 0, speed = 9, antipsychotic = 1, stimulant = 0, euphoriant = 0 } XP Gained: 184,259 Gold gained: 1745 Curative cost to replace: ~10 gp per pill (220 pills used): 2200, ~6gp per 50 refill (217 sips used): 24 gp = 2224 gp spent on curatives Net: -479


    Arurer Haven:

    Start time: 830 PM End time: 836 PM Area Status: Complete Class: Teradrim Stats: | Strength : 16(+2) Dexterity : 14(+1) | | Intelligence : 11(-1) Constitution : 16(+3) Audit: +-- Resistances ------------------------+-- Avoidance -------------------------+ Cutting | 20% 0% 65% 46% Dodge Chance | 0% 0% Blunt | 20% 0% 62% 45% Divert Chance | 33% 33% Magic | 10% 24% 0% 32% Divert Block | 21% 21% Fire | 20% 24% 0% 39% +-- Miscellaneous ---------------------+ Cold | 20% 24% 0% 39% Experience Bonus | 95% def Electric | 10% 24% 0% 32% Crit. Chance | 56.23% Poison | 20% 24% 0% 39% Celerity | 8 r/ps Psychic | 20% 24% 0% 39% Health Drain | 0 Asphyxiation | 10% 24% 0% 32% Mana Drain | 0 Spirit | 15% 0% 0% 15% Willpower Drain | 15 Shadow | 20% 0% 0% 20% Endurance Drain | 0 +------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Resistances: Defences, Miniskills, Armour Avoidance: PvP, PvE +------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Pills used (via curative tracking code): opiate = 0, depressant = 0, anti = 0, anabiotic = 1, coagulation = 0, mana = 0, imm = 0, frost = 0, health = 1, levi = 0, speed = 0, antipsychotic = 0, stimulant = 0, euphoriant = 7 XP Gained: 27,482 Gold gained: 62 Curative cost to replace: ~10 gp per pill (8 pills used): 80, ~6gp per 50 refill (1 sips used): 0 gp = 80 gp spent on curatives Net: -18 gold


    Xaanhal:
    Start time: 845 End time: 856 XP Gained: 125,355 Gold gained: 432 Curative cost: ?? (I reset my tracking after I died in accidental rage so that was deleted, but I'm 100% positive I used more than 44 anabiotics alone) Deaths: 2 (6.3M xp lost)



    I ended up dying twice in Xaanhal while doing my testing and then accidentally reset my curative tracking, so I'm unsure of the cost, but I know I was popping anabiotics like crazy. Because of the fact that I lost 6.3M (1.2M for starburst and 6.1M for full death and subsequently lost level 206), I ended up logging out for the day and didn't complete more testing. That said, I never realized how truly valuable the bashing artifacts are worth and have come to the conclusion that unless you DO invest in the artifacts, there's absolutely no reason for anyone to bash because of how expensive it ultimately comes down to being.

    Curative cost alone is vastly deep and no profitability will ever be made. The xp cost is painstakingly and excruciatingly severe to the point of rage inducing. And then artifacts alone cost stupidly amounts for almost 0 payback in terms of credits to gold. Hunting lvl 1 (200 cr = $70 = 6500 per = 1,300,000 gold), enhancement (350 cr = $120 = 2,275,000 gold), heal_bonuses (1000 credits (for level 1 of hp/mp bonuses) = $300 = 6,500,000 gold) are absolutely necessary to be able to handle hunting the higher end areas without severe threat of death.

    Overall, I feel like with the little testing I did do, PVE is at an extreme disadvantage compared to that of its questing/fishing counterparts. It's become a thing of a joke and unless it's fixed... it will remain as a joke and nobody will want to do it. Which eliminates a good avenue of enjoy for people who like to grind.

    EliadonOonagh
  • EliadonEliadon Somewhere Over the RainbowMember Posts: 98 ✭✭✭
    edited April 13
    Just for a bit of context, that 6.3 million exp loss would have taken me 11 hours to gain at my Vortex rates.

    2.2 hours for the burst alone.
  • SatomiSatomi Member Posts: 299 ✭✭✭
    I gained .03% for catching a fish with the gulleyes rod in ice-water. Two full buckets of 100 each from ice and ocean got me a little shy of 30k gold. I'll log the hours I spend fishing to see how long it takes me to fill my bucket, but it was basically like.. a couple hours for 3 days of just idle fishing.

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