Townhall Part 1

Log here: https://hastebin.com/onizifowac.sql

I am exhausted, so I'll post commentary later. Please feel free to summarize and discuss in this thread. Part 2 will be sometime next week.
RijettaVashKasimirMarienaKalakRhyot

Comments

  • RijettaRijetta Nowhere Important
    Thanks!
    A low, sultry voice resounds within the depths of your mind, "I look forward to seeing your descent."
  • edited August 2017
    Been drinking, thus missed this one! Shame on me. Rogueness was my favourite topic.

    That said, I would like to answer a certain allegation within that log, which states that Kalak not dealing with the consequences of his actions. Since I was not in Townhall, thought this would be appropriate avenue to chime in response. Having no city advantages, no advancement in an organization, no ylem support, no guild support and less access to general RP avenues are big enough consequences as they are, on top of that being hunted.

    The used term "force Kalak to deal with the consequences of his craptastic behavior" made me cringe a little bit. We play a RP game and if you wish to deal with a rogue Sciomancer, do not go to Divine but go to character first. Otherwise it is a show of not taking responsibility for your actions. Sure though, if you intend to RP "We do not negotiate with rogues! We are so great a city! You are trapped, you are gonna die repeatedly!" then eh, that is your choice. It is not like Kalak does things out of context. And I did give ample opportunities to people for exacting retribution. Some managed to take it, some could not. C'est la vie.

    Now it would be quite unfortunate if as a player I was forced to act in a certain way which does not fit to the story of the character I am playing. I am forgoing the $$ investment part but what is more important to me is the time investment part. Some may see it differently, but not only your time is precious and full of RP, I would like to state.

    For rogues, it is understandable that behaviour will not be encouraged more then it already is. But some questions, perhaps in case I might miss it next time:

    - Will you provide Ylem support to the rogues (i.e. Esterport Pylon) or it will remain as a city-only stuff?
    - What do you think about the RP roles of mercenaries, wandering skalds, freeblades, evil mages in towers, barbarians, brigands and such who could be considered as player danger/auxiliaries?
    RhyotLinKanivaraTekias
  • In the past when people have asked about ylem support for rogues, they've been told that loss of ylem support/conflict/abilities was the cost of being unaligned, though that was under Razmael so...who knows, maybe Tiur will have a different stance.

  • RhyotRhyot Bloodloch
    If you read the log of the townhall, you would see that Tiur went and said that there is probably going to be no support for rogues. So I wouldn't expect any sort of RP to enhance rogue roles or even support rogues.

    Reason being it because each side conflict with each other. A rogue provides nothing more than a punching bag for both sides, while at the same time, offering up no lore or true RP to the mix. They have no goal other than 'Oh hey, in what way can I be a dick?' or 'Hrm. I'm just going to mind my own business'.

    Rogues should face a malus because (As a player) you are disregarding all form of lore to subject your character to whims because you don't want to play nice with cities. That's fine. You get to suffer the consequences and the lack of abilities for it.


    KasimirKalakAxiusXavinTeaniRunasAniseXiomaraDaishin
  • Sure, that is all a rogue provides. Seriously, nothing could be further from the truth.

    But seeing the current attitude within some organizations, it makes being a rogue a better option at the face of obnoxious mentality of "My way or highway" pervading the certain parts of the gameworld mostly caused by a select part of playerbase.

    Blanket statements like those are not valid. Because you do not care about someone's RP or stance within the gameworld, that does not mean RP does not exist over there. That does not mean rogues disregard the lore or try to be dicks/harmless. They can add plenty of RP to the mix. Sure they will not join your special snowflake org-event, but they can add a lot under other circumstances.

    Now no one asked for full-advantages/equality with cities. But it seems more sound to allow all roles within a game while maintaining the overarching battle.
    TekiasKanivaraRunasAniseXiomara
  • RhyotRhyot Bloodloch
    To quote a very specific section regarding rogues and neutrality from Tiur himself:

    You say, "Any attention given to the neutral middle, that again, should not exist... I feel that attention has been spent poorly."

    You say, "Looking back to my comment on resource allocation."

    You say, "Our true uniqueness comes from those conflicts and consequences. If I want to spend my resources best, I emphasize and support that."

    You say, "I worry that too much attention to neutral acts as an unspoken encouragement."

    You say, "The world has room for neutrality, but it is a waste of resources to incentivise it."

    -------------------

    I understand that people who I don't RP with still RP. I understand that Yeras still has his RP, I understand that Kanivara still has her RP, I understand that Dzekk/Wylliam/Isia/Eliadon/Aishia/Valingar/Didi all have their own RP. So I do understand that you have RP.

    That said, I have played as a Rogue. And I found that it is much more detrimental to the game and growth as a character to BE a rogue because no one wants to associate with you. My ties were influential and shaky at best when I did play a rogue because I went with whoever paid me the most money or whoever gave me the best deal. As a rogue, you have that option, sure. But in doing so, you ARE in fact disregarding lore. Because under normal circumstances, why in the hell would a Vampire want to help out Enorian when vampires as a whole just want to enslave Enorian as live food? Or why would a Templar want to fight alongside vampires when Templars are taught that the shadow side is inherently evil and needs to be cleansed?

    In the end, a rogue does nothing except cause frustration to all players because now we're toeing the line of 'Do we really want to approve of this rogue's "neutral" behavior? And how is that going to negatively affect us politically and socially?' You become a variable, an outlier that the majority of the game can't rely on. The only thing we can rely on is that the rogue will either be a threat or harmless.

    Now to keep onto topic, I'd say the idea of rogues and neutrality is pretty much shot if you read the subscript from Tiur along with this post. He essentially said that rogues and neutral tendencies are a waste of resources and will not be expanded upon. So take that with whatever grain of salt you'd like. But that's just the way things are.


    TekiasKalakKodazaTeaniKanivaraRunasXavinArbreAniseXiomaraNolaDaishin
  • I do not argue about those comments indeed. But throwing blanket statements like "In the end, a rogue does nothing except cause frustration to all players...." really laughable. Let me burst a bubble, in the end a rogue does not cause frustration to all players. Some players, not ALL players. And even without rogueness, ingame players cause lots of frustration to each other through using game mechanics. So that is kind of natural.
    KanivaraTekiasRunasAnise
  • KodazaKodaza Los Angeles
    $0.02

    In a game of strict binary conflict, isn't it the one trying to play both sides that would qualify as a "special snowflake"? :thinking:

    LinKanivaraRunasIstiraKodaXavinAnise
  • AnteheAntehe Immortal

    This discussion can be moved to a separate thread. The answer has already been given.

    To reiterate:
    Pylons will not become accessible to rogues, they are a benefit and mechanism of cities. Rogues are permitted but not encouraged, and systems will not evolve to make them more favourable.
    RhyotLinTiurKanivaraIstiraXavin
  • TiurTiur Producer
    Sorry, I took the day off because I was asleep on my feet. The Pools' Skyfactory 3 has no problems when you headdesk and go to sleep.

    I'm not going to hurt Rogues. But I'm not going to incentivise them. That means that things like pylons, which are there to push organizational teamwork, are likely not going to be a thing. I don't say rogues have nothing to add to the game... those knowing my history should know I made the first rogue clan, when clans were first made. I understand the mindset!

    It's the difference between hindering and encouraging. I have no problem with a post office in Esterport, or a key maker. Those are life things that should be available. But not a pylon, or an org to get blessings under.
    KanivaraTekiasRunasKalakXavinLin
  • edited August 2017
    That is what I was trying to discern, boss. Thank you for the clarification.

    Because from some statements, it seemed like there would be actions to take care of rogueness instead of letting them persist. While I would love to have one research tree or at least being able to absorb ylem to aid other cities (i.e gauntlet), ultimately they are of no importance as long as survival chance exist to rogue roles.

    And definitely looking forward to Sciomancer revamp!
    Tekias
  • I think we're missing the bigger picture here guys. Tiur said he wants to release a spirit class! TETHER WARS! AHHH!!

    Lin
  • Satomi said:

    I think we're missing the bigger picture here guys. Tiur said he wants to release a spirit class! TETHER WARS! AHHH!!

    Not going to lie, I'd love to see a stealth-based Spirit class. Like...Throat-cutting for peace and justice! I know Assassination and stuff is really the Syssin's wheelhouse, but I dream of a world of secret wars between the Syssin and Enorian-based assassins, trying to out cutthroat each other.

    Aaah...someday.
    Now with 253% more Madness.
    Cute-Kelli by @Sessizlik.
    VashRunasLin
  • Kelliara said:

    Satomi said:

    I think we're missing the bigger picture here guys. Tiur said he wants to release a spirit class! TETHER WARS! AHHH!!

    Not going to lie, I'd love to see a stealth-based Spirit class. Like...Throat-cutting for peace and justice!
    #TeamDawnstriders
    Typically In Game: JST (GMT+9) 6AM-8AM and 6PM-10PM
    EowynRunas
  • Slap this on them aaaand we are golden:

    We fight in the dark to serve the Light.
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