Expanded Rankings System: Feedback & Questions

RazmaelRazmael Member, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 1,063 admin
Throwing up this thread so you give your input on this new system, and ask your questions about how it works, since I've already had quite a few of those. Fire away!

Here's the post for those that can't access it:


ANNOUNCE NEWS #2690
Date: 5/26/2017 at 0:39
From: Razmael, the Synthesist
To : Everyone
Subj: Expanded rankings system!

Hello folks,

We have a new and shiny expanded rankings system released for you today. This expands on our Experience and
Explorers rankings by adding lots of new rankings for you to compete over!

Use the RANKINGS command by itself to see a list of all the available rankings to look at, or RANKINGS ME or
RANKINGS to see someone's rank breakdown across each ranking type.

Some of these rankings are opt-in rankings. You'll only show up on them once you choose to opt-in. These
rankings are:
- Total PVE Deaths
- Total PVP Deaths
- Total Artifacts
- Total Relics

You can use the RANKINGS OPT command to opt-in or opt-out of any of the rankings. But WARNING! Choosing to opt-
out of a default ranking, or opt-in to an optional ranking is free. However, there is a 10cr OR 100k gold cost
to do the reverse, in order to discourage people from flip-flopping in and out of the rankings as they please.
i.e. optting in into the Total Artifacts ranking is always free, but it costs you to leave it again. Optting
out of the Experience rankings is always free, but it'll cost you to rejoin it.

With this change, everybody that had previously forfeited the Experience rankings is now back in them.
Additionally, we are no longer exclude dormant or retired characters from any ranking. The only things that
will exclude you from a ranking is being shrubbed, being below level 31, or having opted out of a ranking.

Rankings will update once every real-life day, somewhere between 11am and 12pm GMT, i.e. 12 hours opposite the
Howling. Some rankings may update in real time as I continue to tweak things in the future, depending on
processing requirement for doing so. I will also be looking at adding more rankings in the future, such as a
Total Assists ranking which I excluded for now just so I can get this released. That will be added very soon
however!

Here's a quick summary of what each ranking represents, just in case some aren't immediately obvious:

OVERALL
An overall ranking, based on performance in every other ranking.

EXPERIENCE
Rankings sorted by total level, and then experience in that level.

EXPLORERS
Rankings sorted by total number of rooms explored.

TOTAL MINIPETS
The total number of minipets owned. Doesn't count caged pets!

UNIQUE MINIPETS
The total number of unique minipets owned. Won't count duplicates of the same type like total minipets does.
Again, doesn't count caged pets.

TOTAL FAME
The total number of honours lines obtained, that show up under the 'Fame' section on HONOURS.

TOTAL MOUNTS
The total number of mounts owned.

UNIQUE MOUNTS
The total number of mounts owned. Excluding duplicates.

BIGGEST FISH
The biggest fish caught. An individual can only show up on this ranking once, with their biggest fish caught.

TOTAL FISH
Total number of fish caught.

TOTAL STYLES
Total number of styles unlocked. Doesn't count scrolls - you need to have unlocked the style properly.

TOTAL FIGURINES
Total number of figurines obtained. Doesn't count a figurine unless you've added it to your collection at some
point.

TOTAL ARTIFACTS
Opt-in only. Total number of artifacts owned. Items with multiple powers will count each of those powers out,
and artifact powers that have levels will count the levels too!

TOTAL PVE DEATHS
Opt-in only. Total number of times you have died in PVE since we started recording this.

TOTAL PVP DEATHS
Opt-in only. Total number of times you have died in PVP since we started recording this.

TOTAL PVE KILLS
Total number of NPCs you have slain since we started recording this.

TOTAL PVP KILLS
Total number of players you have landed the killing blow on since we strated recording this.

TOTAL QUESTS
Total number of quests you have completed, counting quests you have repeated! Only counts for quests that use
the QUESTS command system.

UNIQUE QUESTS
Total number of unique quests you have completed. Only counts for quests that use the QUESTS command system.

TOTAL RELICS
Opt-in only. Total number of full relics you have obtained. Includes both racial relic skills and the normal
item-based relics.

Penned by my hand on Closday, the 18th of Arios, in the year 466 MA.
KelliaraValingar

Comments

  • SaritaSarita The Pillars of the EarthMember, Guildmaster Posts: 675 ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 26
    Is the change for dormant players a permanent one, or just something that had to happen when the system went in?
  • RazmaelRazmael Member, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 1,063 admin
    Sarita said:

    Is the change for dormant players a permanent one, or just something that had to happen when the system went in?

    Permanent.
  • SibattiSibatti Amidst vibrant flora and treesMember Posts: 190 ✭✭✭✭
    Are the different rankings weighted equally within overall rankings, or are some categories more significant?
  • RazmaelRazmael Member, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 1,063 admin
    Sibatti said:

    Are the different rankings weighted equally within overall rankings, or are some categories more significant?

    @Tiur may need to correct me on this since he did the math for it. But I think the different rankings are more or less equal as far as contribution to the overall rankings go.
  • SibattiSibatti Amidst vibrant flora and treesMember Posts: 190 ✭✭✭✭
    So am I right by saying that if I go die a million times to an NPC, it boosts my overall ranking in the game? O_O
  • RazmaelRazmael Member, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 1,063 admin
    Rising in death rankings will raise your overall rankings, yes. Having a million deaths won't shoot you to the top of overall though.
  • ZailaZaila Pacific TimeMember Posts: 261 ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 26
    Do the opt-able rankings affect your overall score if you haven't opted in to them? 

    Similarly, do they count against you if you haven't opted in? 
  • RazmaelRazmael Member, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 1,063 admin
    Zaila said:

    Do the opt-able rankings affect your overall score if you haven't opted in to them? 

    Similarly, do they count against you if you haven't opted in? 

    All rankings contribute to your overall score. If you're not opted into a ranking, you'll just score 0 for it, so you have less potential points to gain towards it.
    ZailaPazradym
  • RhyotRhyot BloodlochMember Posts: 179 ✭✭✭
    So what about those people who are in the Rankings system but have retired? For example, Alexina is in a lot of these rankings but she retired MONTHS ago.

  • RazmaelRazmael Member, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 1,063 admin
    Yep, as I said in my announce post, this is intentional. Those people earned their rankings, and I don't see why going inactive or retiring should change that. In the latter case, they might want to be opted out of said rankings so if so just shoot me an e-mail and I'll sort that out.
  • SaritaSarita The Pillars of the EarthMember, Guildmaster Posts: 675 ✭✭✭✭
    So do your own deaths count for or against you in the total ranking score?
  • RazmaelRazmael Member, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 1,063 admin
    For you.
  • ValingarValingar Member Posts: 312 ✭✭✭
    Interesting stuff to see, I like it. Other rankings that would be interesting to see: 'most vermin killed' (hi Didi) and 'most emotes'.
    ZailaPazradymXenia
  • ZailaZaila Pacific TimeMember Posts: 261 ✭✭✭✭
    @Valingar - most shouts! 
    ValingarEmir
  • PazradymPazradym Member Posts: 92 ✭✭✭
    edited May 26
    oh dear no, lets please not encourage shouting matches....

    speaking of which though... I would like to see something almost more like the inverse of the death counts.  Though with a limiter to not include everyone right off the isle.  Maybe like everyone circle 80 or 100 who has died the /least/ to PvE.  Kind of curious if anyone has made it all the way without dying >.> hardcore mode Aetolia
    By the divine might of Omei, you are restored to life.
    Omei gives the corpse of a headless cadaver to you.
    Omei offers you a quick wink.

  • SibattiSibatti Amidst vibrant flora and treesMember Posts: 190 ✭✭✭✭
    Which relics count for the total relics? I'm opted in and have an unranked score, but I definitely have this. It doesn't have my mark on it though, which may be the problem?

    "idol56015" a golden idol depicting a Atavian.
  • NelaanaNelaana Northeastern USMember Posts: 3
    @Lleminara had the idea to add a 'total essence donated' ranking, and I agree!
    (Moonlight Guardians): Tenshyo says, "*Writes down* Don't. unicorns. With. Nela."'
  • LleminaraLleminara Member Posts: 21
    Alright, so: Now that we have this amazing feature to look who of us needs to stop feeding Divine essence away by dying so much.. among other things.. I thought it would have made a very interesting stat to track to see our total essence contributed on the list. Personally know who I have offered to most, but to see how well I do among my fellow sacrificers would really make for an interesting list of rankings I'd personally work to climb.

    Ideas, thoughts?
    Pazradym
  • ZailaZaila Pacific TimeMember Posts: 261 ✭✭✭✭
    @Sibatti - the opting in seems to take until things update for your rank to tally, give it a few hours and your score will probably pop up
  • SibattiSibatti Amidst vibrant flora and treesMember Posts: 190 ✭✭✭✭
    Some other things I would be interested in seeing:

    - Essence contributed (someone already mentioned this)
    - Crafting represented somehow (# of owned designs?)
    - Languages spoken

    I don't necessarily know if they should contribute to overall rankings, but I love weird statistics and would love to see the data regardless!
  • DaegonDaegon CanadaMember Posts: 84 ✭✭✭
    I have a question.

    Why?

    Why put in a new ranking system and add everyone back in that decided to opt out of the old ranking system? Don't take this as my being ungrateful, or not wanting this change. I've wanted back into the experience rankings since sometime last year. Hunting just isn't the same to me without getting to see where I rank against others. I'm just curious as to... Why?
    'Those that do not attempt are those with the least stories to tell.'
  • TiurTiur Producer Member, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 280 admin
    @Daegon Two answers.

    1: If we go to the gold standard, Bartle, on player taxonomy, the player style of Achiever is the target of this addition. This playstyle is an acting playstyle, focused on the game world and not so much its players. For the playstyle to be validated it needs a means of comparison to itself, its environment, and its peers. By providing a more robust means of analysis and comparison, everyone who likes this style of gameplay is enriched. And while I enjoy adding sweeping changes to the game, I do encourage my staff to work on things that simply enrich and enhance existing gameplay. While no new content is added by this work, existing content is refreshed and made visible.

    Being a bit of a statistician, I adhere to a design philosophy where I look to the status quo as my null hypothesis. In this case, I prefer to take a large addition and make the assumption that it is a positive change, then test against the null of status quo. To do so, everyone needs to be added into the current set and allowed the option to revert to null, otherwise I'd be testing for desire to try new instead of desire to remain null. It's just a design philosophy choice.

    2: I need to approach this elsewhere and in a far more sweeping manner, but let's touch on it a little here. Aetolia seems to have a uniquely flippant and adversarial relationship with the game's staff. In this case, I do not see a way to read your comment as not insulting to the level of effort Razmael applied. Perhaps it is your phrasing? In any case, please be careful not to insult staff or treat them with less respect than they deserve.
    Koda
  • DaegonDaegon CanadaMember Posts: 84 ✭✭✭
    I apologize to @Razmael. That was not my intent even in the slightest. I've been told that I can come off as insulting or ignorant at times. Something I don't mean to do, but can't seem to not do. I have the utmost respect for the staff, and don't wish to insult any of them.
    'Those that do not attempt are those with the least stories to tell.'
    Tiur
  • TiurTiur Producer Member, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 280 admin
    Apologies from me as well! I get touchy about defending my staff.
    DaegonTeaniEmir
  • RazmaelRazmael Member, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 1,063 admin
    Valingar said:

    Interesting stuff to see, I like it. Other rankings that would be interesting to see: 'most vermin killed' (hi Didi) and 'most emotes'.

    I actually like most vermin killed. I'll see if it's something we can do. It'll be starting from 0 though since it's not something we're tracking as far as I know.
    Zaila said:

    @Valingar - most shouts! 

    Rather not encourage pointless shouting, sorry!
    Pazradym said:

    Maybe like everyone circle 80 or 100 who has died the /least/ to PvE.  Kind of curious if anyone has made it all the way without dying >.> hardcore mode Aetolia

    It's a nice idea but death data only goes back 2014, so anybody that hit end-game before then would be impossible to measure.
    Sibatti said:

    Which relics count for the total relics? I'm opted in and have an unranked score, but I definitely have this. It doesn't have my mark on it though, which may be the problem?

    "idol56015" a golden idol depicting a Atavian.

    Ah Idols are a relic that existed before we had a relic system. I'll need to convert them in for it to show up there. I'll poke at that later.
    Lleminara said:

    Alright, so: Now that we have this amazing feature to look who of us needs to stop feeding Divine essence away by dying so much.. among other things.. I thought it would have made a very interesting stat to track to see our total essence contributed on the list. Personally know who I have offered to most, but to see how well I do among my fellow sacrificers would really make for an interesting list of rankings I'd personally work to climb.

    Ideas, thoughts?

    I like the idea of total essence offered ranking. I'll see if it's feasible. Essence/Offering code is notoriously terrible and I could get into a long rant about it otherwise.
    Sibatti said:

    Some other things I would be interested in seeing:

    - Essence contributed (someone already mentioned this)
    - Crafting represented somehow (# of owned designs?)
    - Languages spoken

    I don't necessarily know if they should contribute to overall rankings, but I love weird statistics and would love to see the data regardless!

    I don't like the idea of number of owned designs - I don't want to encourage people to spam the design queue. Maybe counting how many times you've actually crafted designs or something. Languages spoken, not sure if that data would have the variance we need to make a real ranking out of it. From what I remember, there's quite a few people running around with all languages learned.

  • BenedictoBenedicto Tentacles Errywhere! Member Posts: 565 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I feel like RP isn't as well represented as it could be. I don't know if it would be possible to work some form of esteem recognition? Whether that might be something that people are interested in?

  • TiurTiur Producer Member, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 280 admin
    That one was thought of and shut down by every single member of the Pools in rapid fire. We ask, then immediately take it back. Can you imagine policing that? I'd need to read all of your RP logs. Every day. Then check against the esteeming reasons.

    O_o
    BenedictoZailaTeani
  • AishiaAishia Queen Bee Member Posts: 1,820 ✭✭✭✭✭
    esteem actually gives pretty great exp people seem to forget that >_>




    Rhoynn
  • BenedictoBenedicto Tentacles Errywhere! Member Posts: 565 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I wasn't trying to insinuate that it was meaningless @Aishia. You could argue that PVE gives pretty great exp as well. I wasn't trying to discuss the merits of that particular function, I was just spitballing an idea.

    Like I said, it was purely because there isn't anything related to RP within the rankings, but I don't know what could be offered up as a solution so that there's some sort of representation. As @Tiur said, it could either be abused or would need an excessive amount of work to police.

    Teani
  • BenedictoBenedicto Tentacles Errywhere! Member Posts: 565 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 31
    EDIT: Nevermind, I figured it out.

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