Enchantments: A New Viewpoint

KalakKalak Member Posts: 151 ✭✭✭
edited March 30 in Idea Box
Greetings Aetolians, this is my first post around here. So far I have been simply reading the threads and getting accustomed to the game. Noticed there are plans for unifying curing and stimulating economy thus decided to pitch-in for Magi. I am familiar with Mage-archetype and this enchantment system, so I will offer my two cents about how to make it more interesting, engaging and benefical for all sides involved.

DISCLAIMER: Examples mentioned in this thread only exist to enhance the concept. Please keep that in mind.

DIAGNOSIS

- Current enchantment skillset has redundant or borderline useless products.
- Magi classes have no difference on their approach towards enchanting.
- Motivation for going towards different and more powerful types of enchantments is lacking.
- This does not add anything in variety to the economy. If there are no desirable things between cities or guilds, trade and smuggling will not occur actively.

PROPOSITION

Proposed system shifts attention from your usual AB (this and that) which uses certain amount of commodities to knowledge, affiliation, core items and research. Basically enchanting occurs by requiring certain core materials which can range from common to rare, coming from different kinds of activities. The major difference here is that, the final product you get is dependent on item you are enchanting. An item which would give resistance on a ring could be used offensively on an armor as an example.

Ex 1 (Common Example): Essence of Fire is a core item which can be extracted from fire elementals and denizens around volcanoes (the core items drop by a small chance). Its properties can be enchanted on a jewellery to provide resistance, if imbued/etched on armor it will provide passive attack (with very low proc chance whenever the person is damaged) and if used to enchant a weapon it will turn half the damage done with that weapon to fire. You need to combine this essence with Spirit Essence in order to make a firewall ring.

Now affiliation with elements come into play here. An Ascendril will get more benefits from working on their preferred elemental essences such as Fire while Sciomancers will benefit more from Air essence.

Ex 2 (Rare Example): Living Metal is a rare and weird phenomenon which can be found throughout mines in Sapience. Those with the ability of enchanting items can transfer its properties to other items. When used to enchant an armor, it shall provide additional chance to divert attacks and when used on a weapon it will allow you to bypass resistances of your opponents with extremely low chance.

Note: Do not get into balance discussion upon these examples, for they are provided to present concept only. Also I generally gave on offensive/defensive examples but similarly found materials could be used on clothes to provide a utility.

ETCHING&EMBROIDERY

Skilled Enchanters can etch or embroider basic abilities on robes, armor and weapons. They could provide small bonuses like 5% more gold drop/experience/quick endurance regen etc. or low-level abilities to proc upon hits/getting hit such as Lash. Basically an armor can get one enchantment and one skill etching or two minor etchings. Skill etchings can be done from any skillset provided that you find a person to IMPART knowledge to you. With their presence you can etch or embroider the low-level ability.

AFFILIATIONS

Here we come to the place where enchantments should shine. There should be special types of enchantments where only certain organizations can get access to. To increase circulation of commerce one should create items of desire. X enchantment requires knowledge of X city/elements/guild in order to be created. Also certain enchantments could be made available via researching through city let it be a personal-use bauble or a mega-project like an Elemental Cannon which requires concerted effort of several enchanters and rare core-items.

Note: Sigils can remain as they are since...well...they are alright.

MASTERPIECE

This is the pinnacle of your enchanting which means you can put two enchantments and two embroideries/etchings (1 Major, 1 Minor) on a robe or weapon or armor. But you can only have one masterpiece and you cannot make another till existing one is destroyed. You can destroy masterpiece whereever it is by "Destoy Masterpiece". And Masterpiece functions as long as its creator is an Enchanter, so no multiclassing to get your own masterpiece and use it on other class. If you are other class then better pay an enchanter. Non-combatant enchanters especially can turn a decent profit from lending their masterpieces.

This idea and its examples could have faults and might be subject to balancing, but concept should be clear by now. I would like to hear others' opinions on this kind of enchantment style.

Comments

  • SeirSeir Seein' All the Things Getting high off your emotionMember Posts: 972 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm not a fan of transcendent trade skills that provide a mechanical advantage. The reason being that we'd repeat the Lusternia issue, as I said in a different thread. Essentially, people will flock to the trade skill that gives them the greatest mechanical advantage, causing over-saturation of those items in the market while making others hard to find and ridiculously expensive.
  • TeaniTeani Evening Sky SwedenMember Posts: 1,854 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think it's great that you are trying to come up with ideas. It should be noted that there are some future plans on making the skill of enchantment another trade skill (like forging, concoctions, toxicology and reanimation) whenever the Mage guilds get a revamp. This means that when it eventually is change, it will no longer be affiliated only with mages, but with anyone who is trained in the skill.

    I like some of the notions, like connecting certain things to certain cities, however, it needs to be carefully balanced. Smuggling is one thing, but it can be quite difficult to get someone from the other side to give you that one vital enchantment for combat, if it's something only the other side can make. It will tip the balance scale. So, careful distribution of certain coolness factors would be alright.

    I also believe that it might become too close to making artifacts, and there is lore against us being able to make something that powerful. That's not to say we can't develop some skills that resemble them, but Ankyrean artifacts are special, and cost accordingly. Being able to make things like that with a tradeskill will create a different imbalance, as Seir mentioned.



  • KalakKalak Member Posts: 151 ✭✭✭
    edited March 30
    Of course I understand the balancing issues would occur in any case, that is why I gave highly arbitrary examples only to enhance the concept. What I am trying to say is that we could get a more flexible enchantment system. On the other hand, it is a common thing in most of homogenized MUD games that when people cannot get something which would maximize their power output, they believe smallest discrepancy or inaccessibility will cripple the balance. Even if that is something which would give 1% extra resistance.

    On the other hand, if we wish to create a working economy we have to create materials people will go after. Then we have to provide different techniques of processing those materials and creating "staple" products. Consider from real world, when all countries produce whatever they need...would they require to trade with other countries unless under dire circumstances? We could limit tradeskills per people, but then people band together in an organization and then you could still end up in abundance...you will not wish to reach your ally city or even a neutral party to trade. In some conditions even antagonizing states can allow commerce to flow while they come to blows on one thing or another, because of dependencies.

    Now of course I do not say Spinesreach or Bloodloch should be bound by Enorian or Duiran economy, but let us say when it is about creating Fire-based enchantments I would expect Fire Mages produce the best products compared to subpar Spinesreach imitations. On the other hand Spinesreach Mages could provide better Earth-based enchantments. These kind of differences would be applicable to many other things ranging from venoms to concoctions. This would naturally spark trade between ally cities at first and then it could evolve into a widespread market over time.

    And as I read about curative changes, it seems like management tries to do soft-handed changes in order to avoid freaking out players but what is required is a heavy-handed approach when you wish for a vibrant economy.

    Note: I have provided this concept without knowing whether Mage class will get a revamp or not. Of course, even as a general tradeskill I would prefer Enchantments to provide less homogenization for the health of economy.
    Post edited by Kalak on
  • XavinXavin Member Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭✭✭
    At one point there were flame arrow enchantments in...conjuration, I think was the druid skill. It might be cool to see Ascendril get flame arrows and Sciomancers get ice arrows or something.

  • TrikalTrikal Member Posts: 129 ✭✭✭
    Join sect, get flame, ice, electric arrows.
    Emir
  • KalakKalak Member Posts: 151 ✭✭✭
    edited May 19
    Since I did not wish to clutter the forums with ideas related to Enchantments, I am continuing here.

    Scenario 2: Now this scenario bases itself on current Enchantment skillset but with tweaks to existing skills when utilized by Mages. First let us start with reasonings:

    - Since it is a tradeskill accessible via Multiclassing, profitting from Enchanting will be an uphill battle.
    - In current form Enchantments really does not encourage a Mage to learn its skills because its products are widely accessible.
    - Mages benefitting from Enchantments as much as your average citizen is thematically weak.

    So in this part of the Enchantments ideas, I will suggest some differences to existing enchantments when they are utilized by Mages. Keep in mind this is not a balance discussion but an idea presentation.

    IMPORTANT POINT: To encourage Mages to learn Enchantments, these bonuses/differences will be only activated when the related Enchantment skill is learned. So if you wish to get a little bit more from a cold resistance enchantment, you will have to learn the fundamentals behind it to maximize your potential.

    Resistance Rings: Resistance rings will provide 1-2% more resistances to the learned Mages. Or alternatively they will provide 1-2% less resistance to the non-Mages.

    Brooch: It will also mention the area of the death.

    Firelash, Firewall, Icewall, Pestilence, Frostblast: Such enchantments will work slightly faster for the learned Mage and wall durations will be slightly longer.

    Waterwalking: Waterwalking duration will be longer for the learned Mage.

    Time: The Mage has a 50% chance to bypass the effect of this enchantment. Alternative option would the effect of this enchantment is lessened slightly for the Mage who possess this knowledge.

    Purity: For learned Mage it will tick 1-2 seconds faster or for non-Mage it will tick 1-2 seconds slower, based on its current tick time.

    These are some of the random ideas which comes to my mind. In current form of Enchantments, a Mage is really not motivated to learn its abilities. But differentiating between learned men and user, we can bring valid motivation to learn abilities of this skillset.
  • SatomiSatomi Member Posts: 225 ✭✭✭
    I would just like to note that, as a Sciomancer, I have one of the highest audits of all the classes I play (I can provide stats over the next 9 hours if I absolutely have to). That said, all the Shadow Classes have ridiculously high audits, it's just a matter of mitigating the damage when you're actually hit that makes them top bashing classes (Teradrim Twinsoul/Archivist Link).

    Of course, I wouldn't be opposed to supporting ideas that extend the duration of enchantments or slowed the decay of items should you be trans enchantment, and have the item worn.

    Long term, though, Enchantment just has to go as a class skill, like how Venoms was turned into Toxicology.

    As for boons, I'd point at Achaea, Lusternia, and Imperian for fun examples as to how they altered their Magi classes, or implemented their enchantment skillsets.

    All this said, I like the ideas you're pitching, and it'll certainly foster more thought and suggestion. I just like to provide what I consider a.. box to work inside. HOW DARE YOU THINK OUTSIDE IT!! :P

  • XavinXavin Member Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't think anyone is content with enchantment being a class skill for either mage class. However, it's a matter of logistics. Neither mage class is neutral, so eliminating it from either class will create a resource imbalance unless it goes from both classes at once. And for that to happen, our admin team will need to come up with two class revamps and execute them at the same time. It's not exactly an easy feat, nor is it without risks. I hate to bring up the carnifex/templar release but...it could end up the same way,

    Pazradym
  • AishiaAishia Queen Bee Member Posts: 1,820 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ideally it'd be more like Syssin where the two current skills would lose a bunch of stuff to the third skillset/some other skills might be split up and mild revamps made to add a greater variety and a few fluff skills.




    Kelliara
  • KalakKalak Member Posts: 151 ✭✭✭
    edited June 8
    Aishia said:

    Ideally it'd be more like Syssin where the two current skills would lose a bunch of stuff to the third skillset/some other skills might be split up and mild revamps made to add a greater variety and a few fluff skills.

    They actually do not have to lose much from Sciomancy/Elemancy and Crystalism. An overhaul of whole skillsets will not be necessary, just a tertiary skillset (that means two skillsets considering Ascendril) which differentiates options of Sciomancers from Ascendrils. A very crude example I have provided below:

    http://forums.aetolia.com/discussion/2549/shadowcraft-a-wild-sciomancer-idea#latest

    The classes simply require more options and perhaps utilities/flavor abilities to differentiate themselves from each other. If not, I would really expect enchantments to favor Mage classes more then non-Mage classes as a band-aid. Even that difference would be a small fraction.

    Also there is the fact that Sciomancy lacks some modes Elemancy has, for example Singularity is only damage while Holocaust can have damage/affliction/healing modes. And also Elemancy provides an extra ent, WaterSprite.

    All these considered makes the class appear as in serious need of a revamp. But if there was a revamp to occur, I really would not wish to lose Sciomancy and Crystalism, just would wish for a tertiary to increase options of the class.
  • AishiaAishia Queen Bee Member Posts: 1,820 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If they only had things ADDED and not MOVED that would probably mean balance problems.




  • XavinXavin Member Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ultimately, the major difference in approaches is that venoms tied into the syssin skillset in a pretty big way. Enchantment for mages is just kinda...there. As a result, they're probably going to have to do a total revamp for both classes instead of just shifting some stuff around.

  • TiurTiur Producer Member, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 280 admin
    To prevent you all from wasting too much brainpower:

    Enchantments would have to be stripped out. It belongs as a Mercantile skill anyway. Since the class is 95% balanced on two skillsets, those two would have to be either depowered or have things pulled out of them. The third would then take those things pulled out, and fill the class back up to balanced. It would be a large undertaking for mostly flavor.
  • XavinXavin Member Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Tiur is that anywhere on the drawing board at the moment? I know you have a ton of things that are, most likely, much more important in the long run than stripping enchants out of sciomancer and ascendril.

  • TiurTiur Producer Member, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 280 admin
    My drawing board is Top Secret until we figure out how to present a yearly "plan" without invoking Soon (tm)
    VashTeaniXavin
  • AnteheAntehe Member, Immortal Posts: 385 Immortal
    He moved the drawing board because the Celani and I kept drawing unicornbutts all over it.
    Xavin
  • XavinXavin Member Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Antehe said:

    He moved the drawing board because the Celani and I kept drawing unicornbutts all over it.

    This...well, this meshes well with my idea of what goes on up there. <_<

    Teani
  • KalakKalak Member Posts: 151 ✭✭✭
    edited June 10
    Tiur said:

    To prevent you all from wasting too much brainpower:

    Enchantments would have to be stripped out. It belongs as a Mercantile skill anyway. Since the class is 95% balanced on two skillsets, those two would have to be either depowered or have things pulled out of them. The third would then take those things pulled out, and fill the class back up to balanced. It would be a large undertaking for mostly flavor.

    Currently I really like Mage's force-multiplier theme with their abilities (and apparently I am a masochist for being primary target due to that). Of course it would be logical to divert skills from those two skillsets to third. Lash, Ring and Shadeling from Sciomancy comes to mind as Shadow-related. Though I believe the class itself may require an increase of options.

    For example, there is not an attack targetting Shadow resistance except Lash which is a very weak attack. Of course its counter-argument is that people cannot build audit for it. Though in a Shadow related tertiary, depending on the amount of Shadows at his/her command a Sciomancer could be able to exploit that weak spot in their enemies occasionally. Or Singularity is really a sub-par form of Holocaust because Singularity has no modes but sheer cold damage. Once in a web-talk someone called Sciomancer as poor man's Ascendril for some of those discrepancies. Any future change and addition should not make feel the other side inferior or same. Because as a player I'd like to say "I am a goddamn Sciomancer, take that!" and enjoy that 15 minutes of fame, occasionally.

    Now of course, we cannot ask such an undertaking for mostly flavor but can ask for the future of the class itself. When there are many goods on the table, people should feel attracted to those goods and think "Hmm...should I become an Ascendril or Sciomancer?" considering the difference in the 3rd skillset. Otherwise we'd be eating a red-apple and a red-apple painted in green.

    Undoubtedly, in the long run you shall provide a fitting solution. But till then I shall spa...ahem...deliver possible ideas on forums because I like the class itself (maybe a bit too much :) ) and would like to see it in a good place.
  • KelliaraKelliara Member Posts: 469 ✭✭✭✭
    Kalak said:


    For example, there is not an attack targetting Shadow resistance except Lash which is a very weak attack.

    This isn't completely accurate.

    The Scepter of Duality, for example, is a shadow attack. Or spirit, depending on who is holding it.
    Now with 253% more Madness.
    Chibi-Kelli by @Eleanor.
  • KalakKalak Member Posts: 151 ✭✭✭
    edited June 10
    Kelliara said:

    Kalak said:


    For example, there is not an attack targetting Shadow resistance except Lash which is a very weak attack.

    This isn't completely accurate.

    The Scepter of Duality, for example, is a shadow attack. Or spirit, depending on who is holding it.
    Well I was specifically speaking for the Mage class by itself.
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