A New Guild is Coming to Spinesreach

OleisOleis Producer EmeritusMember, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 1,393 admin
After years of training and careful observation, Eocik, modern founder of the Cabalists, abruptly closed the guild's doors to newcomers. While Eleanor and Akaryuterra carried forth the work of the Council of Yi and chartered their own research, a gap remains for those who would study the Numerological arts anew.

In the weeks to come, a new set of Numerologists will gather in Spinesreach. But this new mission will keep them far from dark libraries and grim ritual chambers. Instead, the Archivists of Spinesreach will branch out into the world, gathering items useful to their research and discarding anything or dispatching anyone who stands in their way. In new discoveries and developing events, the Archivists cannot stand by passively -- they must dive into the fray to further their pursuit of power. They twist not just the fabric of reality around them but their own bodies and the bodies of their enemies.

With their addition, the guilds of Spinesreach form a perfect union. The Syssin infiltrate, strike, and open the door. The Archivists emerge, assess what's of value to them, and deal with the next layer of resistance. Their prizes secure, they call in the Sciomancers, who use their elemental power to finish the job and open an exit. Together, on the open battlefield, each group holds its own in different ways.

---

I'm excited to set things in motion for this new guild to form. If you'd like to comment on this thread to share your thoughts, feel free!

+ Is this a guild that might interest you?
+ Do you think its message is something new players could be passionate about?
+ Do you think the idea fits Spinesreach?

If you're interested in joining the fledging guild, I'd encourage you to send me a private message. Let me know what role you might serve in the guild, how you would embody its mission, and where it might go in the near future.
You say to Slyphe, "You're so freaking smart."
[---]
"^," Slyphe agrees with you.
KelliaraPazradymXeniaMihaketiLeanaFyrrenSeirSessizlikIazamat
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Comments

  • KelliaraKelliara Member Posts: 469 ✭✭✭✭
    To answer quickly before I have to dash off:

    1) Yes.

    2) Knowledge is power? I think this is something that could draw the interest of players looking for that sort of character.

    3) Personally, I'm inclined to think so.

    More in depth response to come later.
    Now with 253% more Madness.
    Chibi-Kelli by @Eleanor.
    Fyrren
  • KanivaraKanivara Member Posts: 18 ✭✭
    OH MY HECK YES.

    The guild DOES interest me, and like... it fits Kani because that's how she tends to -be-. Find intel, get through barriers, kick stupidity out of her way, -know- things.

    I think the message, under the right leadership, could definitely be something new players are passionate about.

    And yes, I think the idea fits Spinesreach. From what I've seen in my time playing here, Spireans are the sort to just get things -done-. They don't quibble about what's right or wrong, they see an opportunity to gain power and they -take it-. Case in point: Three Widows Republic.

    And I tend to use ingame messages, forums aren't really my -thing- because, uh... well... I've generally had bad experiences on forums for other games. SO! I've bombed your ingame message box with my personal private opinions. :D Aaaah this is going to be cooool.
  • MephistolesMephistoles Member Posts: 238 ✭✭✭✭
    I think one of the big downfalls of the cabalists was how wonky numerology RP got. People talked about world destroying power in character when no one even came close to attaining that. I think that's one of the central things that you need to make sure you put a kibosh on.

    You can't channel world destroying power. You cannot channel the immortal number, your powers are limited.

    To the actual questions.

    - It doesn't seem to fit the actual skillset of the cabalist class. The cabalists were numerologists but their other two skillsets were effectively evil magic that channeled life energy and summoning demons. They didn't tend to RP the last two, which was one of their weaknesses. If the skillset was to change it seems viable, but it doesn't seem to fit demon summoning necromancers.

    - With a skillset change, yes, it definitely could work. With the skills as they currently are I don't think I'd be interested and I'm not sure it would fit.

    - It seems to fit with the aesthetic of Spinesreach, but again, not the base skillset of the guild.

    TLDR; With a skillset change this seems really, really cool. Without it I don't think it will work.
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    LeanaFyrren
  • OleisOleis Producer Emeritus Member, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 1,393 admin

    I think one of the big downfalls of the cabalists was how wonky numerology RP got. People talked about world destroying power in character when no one even came close to attaining that. I think that's one of the central things that you need to make sure you put a kibosh on.

    You can't channel world destroying power. You cannot channel the immortal number, your powers are limited.

    To the actual questions.

    - It doesn't seem to fit the actual skillset of the cabalist class. The cabalists were numerologists but their other two skillsets were effectively evil magic that channeled life energy and summoning demons. They didn't tend to RP the last two, which was one of their weaknesses. If the skillset was to change it seems viable, but it doesn't seem to fit demon summoning necromancers.

    - With a skillset change, yes, it definitely could work. With the skills as they currently are I don't think I'd be interested and I'm not sure it would fit.

    - It seems to fit with the aesthetic of Spinesreach, but again, not the base skillset of the guild.

    TLDR; With a skillset change this seems really, really cool. Without it I don't think it will work.

    A good point that I failed to mention. This would be paired with the release of the revamped Cabalist class.
    You say to Slyphe, "You're so freaking smart."
    [---]
    "^," Slyphe agrees with you.
    MephistolesLeanaFyrren
  • MephistolesMephistoles Member Posts: 238 ✭✭✭✭
    Oleis said:


    A good point that I failed to mention. This would be paired with the release of the revamped Cabalist class.

    Then yes to all three questions. I'm down.
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  • LeanaLeana Member Posts: 84 ✭✭✭
    I'm pretty excited for them and everyone in general.
    Yes to all three questions.

    We need more details! Like, skill names!


  • HexesHexes HexesMember Posts: 15 ✭✭
    Can you give a little insight on the class skills @Oleis
  • FyrrenFyrren Member Posts: 121 ✭✭✭
    Well, I would totally be on board with my Cabalist character!
    text

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    Avatar of Fyrren drawn by the amazing Sessizlik.
  • RhoynnRhoynn HartfordMember Posts: 65 ✭✭✭
    edited February 17
    1. This concept is extremely interesting, as it incorporates old elements, nodding to the lore and legacy with a large twist.
    2. I believe you could still see the variety the Cabalists had, and hoped to have had, in the players that could be attracted to this guild. You could see pacifists, bashers, Pkers, writers, hunters, etc and the like all flocking to this greater mission of 'knowledge and artifacts for the glory of the Republic'
    3. This concept sounds like a more aggressive re-take on the Cabalists, giving them a dual- scholastic and militaristic purpose that I think could be a great addition to the fabric and landscape of Spinesreach.

    I messaged you In-Game regarding answering your final point
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  • KelliaraKelliara Member Posts: 469 ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 17
    Okay, now that I have the time, I'm going to do a bit more of an in-depth answer to these questions, and possibly mention a few other things as I prattle on.

    1) "Is this a guild that might interest you?"

    As mentioned before, yes. While my character is fairly agressive and more inclined to physical violence, there's no denying that she has a certain hunger for various knowledge, particularly things involving matters that can be seen as pertaining to Shapeshifting. I think she's probably one of the few characters remaining today that has a somewhat decent understanding of the origins of Shapeshifting, and Seamlore.

    Adding onto this that Kelli is very much a "Take your thing and use it for herself" sort of person, and isn't particularly bothered if she has to make someone's life unpleasant (or shorter) to get it. The premise of the Guild is very appealing to me, as it would be to her.

    2) "Do you think its message is something new players could be passionate about?"

    This, in my view, is 50/50 between design and implementation. That is to say, half of it is the class, and the other half what players do with it. The bare bones idea of the Guild, yes, I sincerely believe is something new players (and old) could become passionate (zealous) about, the drive, or fire, will depend greatly on the leadership of the guild as it develops, and which directions it takes as it finds it roots in-game, and begins to grow.

    What this means is that the people who end up with the privilege of driving this Guild off the lot, so to speak, also have the responsibility to cultivate an interesting and enjoyable place for people to be, otherwise the Guild and its message aren't going to be something for people to get passionate about, and the whole thing will wither away.

    I don't think that's going to happen though! I'm totally optimistic!

    3) "Do you think the idea fits Spinesreach?"

    This is the thornier of the three questions.

    Again, this may very well depend on the players. The idea certainly does, and very nicely, but my largest concern would be stepping on the toes of the other Guilds, the Sciomancers in particular. While I don't think a bit of overlap is necessarily a bad thing, per se, the trouble comes, as it seems to have done in the past, when there are two guilds in the same organisation that have goals that are built off too similar ideals. One seems to always get lost in the shuffle, and this is something I think that the Cabal as it was and Sciomancers have both experienced in varying ways, at least in the time I've been playing.

    The other thing is that the interpretation of the idea by leadership is also going to play a part in how it fits in, which will in turn feed back into the response to question 2. If, for example, the leader decides to take a sharp left-hand turn away from the way Spinesreach operates, and the things its trying to achieve, running off to do its own thing, totally ignoring its sister-guilds and so forth, then the idea is going to end up in a shape that no, doesn't fit.

    On the other hand, there's certainly room for it to fit in quite nicely. As @Rhyonn stated, its a new, more aggressive twist in an old snake, and I think that with a bit of care it'll not only slot in beautifully, but give Spinesreach and its guilds a real shot in the arm.

    Hopefully I didn't sound too grim about anything there. I'm really looking forward to this, and I'm supremely confident that none of the concerns I've mentioned, or any I've forgotten will actually become an issue.

    I can't wait. <3 :)
    Now with 253% more Madness.
    Chibi-Kelli by @Eleanor.
    AxiusRhoynn
  • AxiusAxius where I amMember Posts: 166 ✭✭✭
    as a newer member of the original Cabal:

    If the class revamps end up giving us additional details? Then yes. To all three questions yes. I'm also about to PM you my interest in joining the guild. It retains that Special Containment Procedures feel that I actually fell in love with in the original guild, and it's even -more- so now! So yes, I approve in all three settings.

    1. Axius is likely to fall into the category of extensive testing, but yes, he would be very interested in joining this new guild, it's at semblance of his home as it would be.

    2. I echo @Kelliara's statement in regards to this question
    3. I also echo the sentiment from @Kelliara here as well.
  • JensenJensen Corruption's Butcher Member Posts: 1,808 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm not going to deny ignorance on the subject, but if Spines is going to try and achieve a three part harmony with their guilds won't that clash a bit with the old cabal ideal of shunning magic?
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  • TinaTina Member, Guildmaster Posts: 63 ✭✭✭
    edited February 17
    + Is this a guild that might interest you?

    I like the concept yes, it's one that fits with part of what what I've always seen in my current guild as well. Hunting and reclaiming power and lot relics, investigating and discovering items of power. Growing in strength. Doing whatever it takes to get what you need. I like playing that kind of character. Spinesreach always had a rather large group of citizens that didn't belong to any of the city guilds. Secrecy was a big part of them, and while the city appealed to a broad base, the guilds were more narrow. I think an active, in your face type of guild will help fill in that niche and people's roleplay needs that's been missing since the Atabahi guild was removed, and help the city guilds cover the full spectrum of players who may want to call Spinesreach home.

    + Do you think its message is something new players could be passionate about?

    I think it will in everything but the name. Archivists I think goes against what you are trying to establish for this guild and will turn off new players to the idea, or make them think it's something it's not. Maybe I'm influenced by other game that use the term, but generally archivists manage an archive. An archive is a storehouse of knowledge. We have several of them in aetolia, and archives there are mostly fancy libraries . Archives in Djeir, library. Spirean archives, city libraries, etc. And in many other games. They are suppose to be getting out, being more explorers, archeologists, active in studies rather then just hiding and being bookworms in a library. I don't think calling them a synonym for librarian puts out the right message. Also in the new roles you laid out it sounds like Sciomancers would be closer to archivists then this new guild. They discover the items, Sciomancers catalog and keep them.

    + Do you think the idea fits Spinesreach?

    I love the conept, but I think the practical application will be very difficult to implement. It will require all three guild working together in a harmony I don't think we've seen in any city before. It will be tough to have it uniformly enforced across all three organizations. I know the goal is to tie them all together and with the city more closely, even so this one seems like it would need a lot of oversight. Syssin keep an eye out for disturbances then report them to the new guild instead of investigating and claiming it themselves, they have to move past the whole elitist group of defenders we are the best, guild comes before all else. Which has been their core for pretty much their entire existence except for the brief time as the Syndicate. The new cabbies find the items and instead of hoarding the knowledge share it with the sciomancers. Sciomancers study and find uses, and don't overlap with the new cabbies, who both have a similar goal. The unity, and big mindset shifts for at least two of the city guilds, it would be difficult to achieve and then maintain with only player oversight. \

    As things are now I can easily see Syssin not wanting to turn things over to the cabalists, cause the syssin are the elite force and they are the best choice to defend items of power and interest. And the new cabbies not wanting to turn over what they find to the Sciomancers but wanting to keep it to study themselves. And Sciomancers not wanting to study other people's finds, but make the finds themselves. Maybe with the roles more fleshed out there will be less overlap and conflict, but I see it has been something that will be very difficult if not impossible for the players to manage on their own the constant synergy between all the guilds this would need. I do love the idea though if we can make it work.
  • DakanDakan Behind youMember Posts: 14 ✭✭
    @tina: I mean, a lot of things in Aetolia don't really work out how they're intended to or ideally would. A lot of that is just in the RP. I don't think you can plan a guild or an org on the premise of, 'All of these suns and moons must align for this to work.'

    Personally, I think the idea is neat. Though I do agree that maybe Archivist isn't quite the name you're looking for.
  • AishiaAishia Queen Bee Member Posts: 1,820 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 17
    What about like INQUISITORS
    Post edited by Aishia on




    Insadia
  • TozToz Member Posts: 2,153 ✭✭✭✭✭
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "I'll still never forget the first time I saw Toz throwing hammers."
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "I freaked out and thought they had somehow managed to pull me into them."
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "So I tumbled away from my team and into theirs."


    PazradymSatomi
  • TinaTina Member, Guildmaster Posts: 63 ✭✭✭
    Aishia said:

    What like INQUISITORS

    That works for me. Though that may be because I just finished another play through of Dragon Age Inquisition....
  • PhoeneciaPhoenecia Somewhere in AtticaMember Posts: 475 ✭✭✭✭
    Toz said:
    I was actually just thinking about that. Or like, a dark version of S.H.I.E.L.D.
    Pazradym
  • OleisOleis Producer Emeritus Member, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 1,393 admin
    The idea behind the Archivists name (for which I take no credit) was that archivists (in the common noun sense of the word) are just as involved with seeking out new information and artifacts as they are maintaining a collection. They are a punched-up version of 'Collectors,' essentially. But I take your point. I think Inquisitor gives it a religious or persecutive perspective; while the guild definitely angles itself to be Spinesreach's ideological motivators, they are firmly secular.
    You say to Slyphe, "You're so freaking smart."
    [---]
    "^," Slyphe agrees with you.
    FyrrenDidi
  • OisynneOisynne MaineMember Posts: 38 ✭✭
    I really like the idea of this guild; though Oisynne will probably never leave the Sciomancers (she's a great Sciomancer), I could definitely be interested in playing in the Archivists at some point in my life, especially if it comes with revamped Cabalists. I was always a bit put off by how much like the Indorani the Cabalists were, I admit, skillset-wise.

    I also think the synergy with the other guilds will be great, giving Spinesreach a more unified Spirean thing which is a great idea. I'm terrible at talking about things I feel big warm fuzzies about, but I definitely feel excitement over this whole new guild.
  • SessizlikSessizlik Muffin Mistress Member Posts: 413 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I just want to point out, when it comes to the name, that when I heard the name Wayfarers the first time, I was super excited there were a guild of explorers.

    ....and then I read about the guild and it was blasted combatants...

    So.. name doesn't really matter to me personally. As for the questions..

    1: The guild is very much of interest to me.

    2: I think there will be new players that will be interested, because not every new player is a combatant and might need something new to focus on.

    3: I absolutely think the idea fit Spinesreach. The Sciomancers seem to have a different idea of what power and knowledge might be, so it could be a bit of friendly fighting in the city. "Our way is better than yours! But we will still play nice with you." and so on and so forth.

    Can't see where this leads.! <3 Everyone involved in this.
    image
  • KelliaraKelliara Member Posts: 469 ✭✭✭✭
    Sessizlik said:

    I just want to point out, when it comes to the name, that when I heard the name Wayfarers the first time, I was super excited there were a guild of explorers.

    ....and then I read about the guild and it was blasted combatants...

    So.. name doesn't really matter to me personally. As for the questions..

    1: The guild is very much of interest to me.

    2: I think there will be new players that will be interested, because not every new player is a combatant and might need something new to focus on.

    3: I absolutely think the idea fit Spinesreach. The Sciomancers seem to have a different idea of what power and knowledge might be, so it could be a bit of friendly fighting in the city. "Our way is better than yours! But we will still play nice with you." and so on and so forth.

    Can't see where this leads.! <3 Everyone involved in this.</p>

    Wayfarers are only a class, they have no Guild, so it's up to each individual Wayfarer to decide for themselves if they're going to be combatants.

    And as for the Archivists being combatant, certainly there is that option, but like every guild, options will have to exist for the less bloody-handed players and characters.
    Now with 253% more Madness.
    Chibi-Kelli by @Eleanor.
  • KelliaraKelliara Member Posts: 469 ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 17
    Jensen said:

    I'm not going to deny ignorance on the subject, but if Spines is going to try and achieve a three part harmony with their guilds won't that clash a bit with the old cabal ideal of shunning magic?


    I don't actually think the Old Cabal shunned magic, just the term.

    The idea was that 'magic' isn't actually mysterious, it can be studied and understood, and what is perceived as magic is actually science.
    Now with 253% more Madness.
    Chibi-Kelli by @Eleanor.
    AkaryuterraRunas
  • SessizlikSessizlik Muffin Mistress Member Posts: 413 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Kelliara This is from the Wayfarer thread here on the forums..
    "Brainstormed by Valdus and Razmael, this neutral-tether class embodies the archetype of brutal warrior. With axe in hand and an eye to the shifting tides of battle, Wayfarers will soon cross over from Albedos to inhabit every city-state on Sapience."
    Brutal warriors. That's basically where I stopped reading. It means the class will be for those who are pk-heavy. ;)

    My hope is that the Archivists will be at least a bit more inclined towards the non-com side of the game.
    image
    Fyrren
  • LeharLehar farmMember Posts: 64 ✭✭✭
    Not to go too far into the Wayfarer thing, but there's a lot of fun utility stuff in Wayfarer, too. Give the skillsets a look over.
    Mihaketi
  • MihaketiMihaketi Member Posts: 65 ✭✭✭
    I'm interested in seeing if the SCP-style focus is more successful in this instance than it was when the Cabal tried it with a low playercount/no admin support (this isn't meant to be an indictment, just an acknowledgement of what stopped it working the first time). I think there's a lot of ways that this kind of focus fits into Spinesreach and allows for a more aggressive/non-reactionary guild - shaking out the small quirks to make it fit Spines and push a cohesive identity is going to be something for the players rather than the class concept, I think.

    + Is this a guild that might interest you?
    Absolutely.

    + Do you think its message is something new players could be passionate about?
    Yes, and I think it's something currently missing from the game with the absence of the Cabalists.

    + Do you think the idea fits Spinesreach?
    Yes. Spines has always had a very aggressive stance on 'for the North' and the Archivists sound like they will fit neatly into that.
  • AkaryuterraAkaryuterra Member Posts: 52 ✭✭✭
    The SCP idea was a large and central part of why and what the Cabal did previously, and I very much think it still can belong in the game.

    I would be interested in such a guild

    I want to echo some of what @tina said, in the sense that the previous Cabal was an archival guild, and cataloging and hoarding was what it did, but with less external support than what is being proposed. So long as there are objects or artifacts or whatever you want to call them, which that guild can actively seek to acquire, I think that will provide a direction to pursue. A lot of what is being said sounds like the niche the Cabal had carved for itself.

    Cooperation between the various guilds will be important. That said, if there is to be a guild that seeks out and obtains and studies objects of power, I would propose the city might need a central space inside which to store the findings. Otherwise, it may risk a struggle between the guilds to be the controlling interest in a given object, or of the housing of the objects.

    I think the mentality of each of the guilds, in the past, has been 'we know what we're doing, too bad the others have no clue', and this presented a point of tension in many, many interactions and events.

    To support @kelliara, the Cabal did not shun magic, so much as the usage of the word. 'Magic' in the Cabal culture implied a lack of understanding, it is a word rooted in ignorance, as they saw it, and thus was not suited to learning more about the world.

    @Sessizlik the movement I mentioned in the Cabalists thread, which is what the later Cabal sort of fashioned itself after, was one that tried to mark itself apart from the Indorani by way of adopting new skillsets, because of the nature of domination and necromancy.

    I answered the first core question, which is whether or not I would like such a guild: definitely.

    The third, is another yes, I think it can fit and belong in the Spires, in a way that's very similar to the late Cabal.

    The second point, however, is where I want to stress the importance of support. The overall concept feels like a spiritual spin-off of what we had - and I have no problem with that - but there are very important factors to consider if this version is to be successful.
    - Support for pursuit
    - Less open-ended directives

    These are two things the Cabal had problems with, which is part of what caused new players to have difficulties adapting to the way the guild functioned.
    image
    KelliaraKanivaraXavinFerrik
  • SatomiSatomi Member Posts: 225 ✭✭✭
    I support collection artifact collection quests as the new guild grows and develops... or theft retrieval quests, since I'm sure everyone is going to want the Archivist's (cabal's) stuff.

    As for the rest, this guild would probably be the only reason Tomi comes back to Spines after the Bloodloch shift.

  • PypoPypo Member Posts: 75 ✭✭
    Yes to all three....I swear when I have read everything I am almost hoping its going to be what the idea that was used for alchemists presented way back when as a prank guild. I love the ideas when it was presented but I know it won't be exactly the same. I can't wait to see the presentation of new skillsets! :catface:
    SessizlikKanivara
  • KodazaKodaza Los AngelesMember Posts: 82 ✭✭✭
    This is really cool, and more than a little tempting. An SCP-org makes sense for Spines. I wish I had the time to invest in an alt.
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