Haven and City Portal Changes

OleisOleis Producer EmeritusMember, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 1,393 admin
edited May 23 in Aetolia Development
Hi folks --

I mentioned in our Town Hall meetings that I wanted to help encourage our players to interact more with their citymates and guildmates without removing the ability to make the private connections that many of you value. I'm now implementing one such change.

Havens have always been places our characters create through force of will and mind. Now, when you enter your haven, a shell of your body will remain in the room from which you traveled, visible to other players passing through. You will be able to interact with everything in your Haven as normal, though you will not be able to take aggressive action. Meanwhile, your resting body below will still overhear speech in the room around it, which will echo to your consciousness in the Havens. This will allow you to keep up with the conversation and allow others to get your attention.

Should someone wish to confront you more directly, she or he may WREST you from your Haven, bringing your consciousness back into your body and preventing you from returning to your Haven for 60 seconds. While there may be friendly uses for this command, it is certainly aggressive and provides PK cause should you wish to press the matter.

Additionally, while your city portals will function the same way, there is now a 90 second time limit before you are brought down to a gathering area in your city. The following locations have been marked gathering areas:

Bloodloch - The West Gate
Spinesreach - The Inner Gate
Duiran - Core of the Great Oak
Enorian - Landward Gate

While this is currently the only use for them in code, we may lean on them in the future in similar efforts. Please feel free to contact me or post in the corresponding forum thread [which is this! Right here!] with any questions or feedback.
You say to Slyphe, "You're so freaking smart."
[---]
"^," Slyphe agrees with you.
Post edited by Tiur on
KelliaraRazmaelAnteheTrikalRunasCinarraLinEmelleRhoynnHadrakTeaniZailaFyrren
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Comments

  • AelliaAellia Member Posts: 4
    I don't agree to this change. First off, no one smart uses a haven where an enemy can WREST. I can see this WREST command being abused by those that wanna annoying their fellow guild or city mates. On top of people being forced to communicate when they don't want to. On top of clutter in a room, with people leaving shells in different rooms around the city. I don't see any positivity in this change. I hope I am wrong though about this line of thinking.
    EllianaErzsebet
  • OleisOleis Producer Emeritus Member, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 1,393 admin
    Aellia said:
    I don't agree to this change. First off, no one smart uses a haven where an enemy can WREST. I can see this WREST command being abused by those that wanna annoying their fellow guild or city mates. On top of people being forced to communicate when they don't want to. On top of clutter in a room, with people leaving shells in different rooms around the city. I don't see any positivity in this change. I hope I am wrong though about this line of thinking.
    WREST should be considered an aggressive action, akin to busting into someone's bedroom and yanking them out into the street. I suspect city leaders will not simply look at that and shrug. 
    You say to Slyphe, "You're so freaking smart."
    [---]
    "^," Slyphe agrees with you.
    TeaniZaila
  • EliadonEliadon Somewhere Over the RainbowMember Posts: 59 ✭✭✭
    edited January 9
    Has there been any consideration for players whose Havens have a FightPit? As you cannot perform aggressive actions in-haven anymore, the FightPit room is completely useless.

    Also, with shells now being a thing, is the limit on returning to haven from someone else's organization building still necessary? I imagine if they don't want you there, they can just wrest you out.
    Post edited by Eliadon on
  • AelliaAellia Member Posts: 4
    Oleis said:


    Aellia said:

    I don't agree to this change. First off, no one smart uses a haven where an enemy can WREST. I can see this WREST command being abused by those that wanna annoying their fellow guild or city mates. On top of people being forced to communicate when they don't want to. On top of clutter in a room, with people leaving shells in different rooms around the city. I don't see any positivity in this change. I hope I am wrong though about this line of thinking.

    WREST should be considered an aggressive action, akin to busting into someone's bedroom and yanking them out into the street. I suspect city leaders will not simply look at that and shrug. 

    So what is the point in WREST? I mean if you do it in the city to a fellow city/guildmate there might be a law against it.. And no one would go to a haven now in an area where enemies can find your shell and WREST it. The point of the WREST command seems pointless now.
    Elliana
  • AelliaAellia Member Posts: 4
    I'd be more than willing to change my mind if someone can give me an example of how this will be a positive addition to the game.
  • TrikalTrikal Member Posts: 129 ✭✭✭
    Annoyingly shouting from your haven and feeling safe aren't a thing anymore. Some of us are capable of getting to you in the middle of a city to WREST you into the real world and make you account for your actions. More than once have there been people smugly shouting their superiority while sitting in the safety of their haven or city portals. I 100% agree with having an aggressive means of pulling someone back into Aetolian reality.

    As far as leaving a shell in a room, seems to me like something to talk to your minister of development about adding a daydreaming room or something into the city that you can use as a place to go to your haven where folks are expected to maintain silence so as to not bother people in havens.
    FezzixAtrapoema
  • AxiusAxius where I amMember Posts: 166 ✭✭✭
    edited January 9
    I mostly use my haven as a "logout" zone, and a place to quietly put up my defenses when I log in. Some defenses being activated are considered "aggressive actions". How will this affect me and my logging habits? I just found myself unable to activate a couple of my defenses on logging in, and had to take the 20 second channeled functionality to return to my body just to be able to apply my defenses.

    I understand the reason for it. I don't understand why the necessity to apply a non-aggression field to havens.

    Edit: And while yes, I can appreciate the good this can -provide-. I can also indicate the number of trolls who are likely to go out of their way to drag people out of their havens just because they can abuse this mechanic. Not to mention it kind of makes the point of Havens in the first place kind of moot. The name itself isn't really.. viable anymore in fact. A haven is a place of safety and comfort. This change takes away the safety, and depending on how you have the "shell" set up, you could very well have it be a security risk entirely in places that you enter your haven so you're not idling. Why even use the haven as more than a storage spot after this? Don't bother spending more than a few moments in there because those who might be trying to escape to take a breather from RP can't now. Not without someone dragging them out of their haven to RP at them more. I respect the purpose. I request the removal of the aggression protection for the sake of defenses, and other abilities that are considered "aggressive" even if they're not "harmful". I also humbly ask that you either remove the channeled part of HAVEN ESCAPE and remove WREST entirely, so that it doesn't take 20 seconds for someone to get you out of your haven if they want your attention, or you look at maybe alternatives to this idea which feels entirely hamfisted in its application. These are my thoughts after I've had time to think on them, and the good and the bads.
    Post edited by Axius on
    Tenshyo
  • SethSeth Member Posts: 32 ✭✭✭
    Yeah, I don't understand the non-aggression limit either.
  • IlyonIlyon Member Posts: 746 ✭✭✭
    Well, so much for portals idling. Time to dust off my haven once again, I guess.

    I understand what the change hopes to achieve, but in my case at least it's going to have the opposite effect, as exiting the haven takes longer than moving from the portals. Ah well!

  • LeanaLeana Member Posts: 84 ✭✭✭
    edited January 9
    Are you still able to bring people to your Haven?
    Edit: Didn't realize this was live, so I tested and you can bring people to the Haven. Have return is also 5 seconds (affected by eq recovery time)
    Edit: Feel like my Gorgon Lucky Charm idea may be losing traction.
    Also, if you're hidden, have a veil, hood, or other artifacts that hide you will they work on you and your shell? There's a lot of this I'm not sure about yet. If you can no longer bring people to your Haven that's a serious change and one I am wholly against. The whole point was to decorate the place and show it off.
    Post edited by Leana on


  • EmelleEmelle the Seer Seer's WoodMember Posts: 711 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 9
    Is discouraging idling one of the ideas behind this change?

    How will people in havens and their shells appear on WHO?
  • RhyotRhyot BloodlochMember Posts: 179 ✭✭✭
    I'm 70/30 on this change. On one hand, I love that I can pull someone from their haven for being annoying, on the other hand, I use my haven (every now and then) to afk. As such, I don't want to get pulled while I'm afk because I'm obviously not going to answer.

    However, I will say this. I think this is a good change to happen, even if I'm reserved about it. Now, for everyone saying what if, what if.... here's an option instead of sitting afk which I am a proud supporter of. Logout. If you're going to afk for 12+ hours, then logout. No one can pull you then.

    Also, as I write this. I think this will definitely give player owned houses, city apartments, etc a much better use now because if no one can get in your house, then your shell is safe anyway. So for everyone getting upset, there are a few options for you. WOO!

    RhoynnHavenFyrren
  • SethSeth Member Posts: 32 ✭✭✭
    I still idle in news. The original AFK room, heh.
    LeanaTrikalZaila
  • LeanaLeana Member Posts: 84 ✭✭✭
    edited January 9
    Seth said:

    I still idle in news. The original AFK room, heh.

    The oldest old-school.

    Edit: Just for giggles, if you type WREST and hit enter, you should get:
    "Sarita's body is not resting here."


    Seth
  • LeanaLeana Member Posts: 84 ✭✭✭
    edited January 9
    Sorry about the Double Post, but @Oleis why was it necessary to make havens free of all aggression?

    Edit: After some testing: You can follow people into havens and everyone who follows makes a shell. If you WREST the leader, everyone gets pulled out. Also, everyone can hear conversation in the haven. Shells don't seem to be intractable in anyway I can figure out yet and they do not hide if you have a veil or other form of hide mechanic.
    Post edited by Leana on


  • NeomaNeoma Member Posts: 92 ✭✭✭
    I can see the advantage in being to WREST people from their haven either in a friendly necessity or to slap some loud mouth who hides.

    BUT the part I hate is not being able to defup in my haven. I always log out from my haven and sometimes in aggressive hunting areas where i know when I return i can defup, exit haven and start bashing. Also maybe a timer on the haven, 5 or 10 minutes before your shell is seen and can be WREST out.
  • IlyonIlyon Member Posts: 746 ✭✭✭
    Fezzix said:

    What advantage does going AFK provide?

    The ability to leave the game running in the background while doing something else, and occasionally check if something interesting is happening. Whether being able to do this is desirable or "good for the game" or whatever is not for me to judge.

  • TozToz Member Posts: 2,153 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 9
    I sit in my haven when I'm (at work and on my phone|not paying full attention|coding|working on things|don't want to deal with people). I'm just going to go into my haven in player housing from now on, since almost nobody can get to me in there.

    EDIT: Yeah, and the 'no aggressive action' thing is weird. I guess I need a refund on my safeduel haven mod, and I'll have to go idle in the training rooms for fixing my system instead.
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "I'll still never forget the first time I saw Toz throwing hammers."
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "I freaked out and thought they had somehow managed to pull me into them."
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "So I tumbled away from my team and into theirs."


  • LeanaLeana Member Posts: 84 ✭✭✭
    edited January 9
    You'll need that artifact to find someone's shell, btw.

    @Oleis can we get a command to expel people from our haven, since we can't kill them anymore?


    Xenia
  • QuellisondeQuellisonde Baton RougeMember Posts: 10
    I swore I was not going to post here again but I just can't keep my snarky at bay.

    Sure, let's change something that doesn't impact me over much, sure people are sitting and abusing haven and portals and the ones that do once again impact those who do not. BUT what does impact me, every single day I log in for oh what over a year now....

    Why I'll tell you, the gulleye rod being crappy, I curse and spit and shake fist EVERY single day over it but do you fix that...NOOOO let's fix something not broken.

    Okay just had to get that out!


    RhoynnLinApianoraTeaniAnteheXavinMihaketiRasani
  • RhoynnRhoynn HartfordMember Posts: 65 ✭✭✭
    I'm actually in huge favor of this change. Given the RP behind my Haven and the way I've structured it, It's never really been a place for me to bring other characters. I do go there, sometimes, to idle, likely while I'm writing something big for the Cabal or some sort. However, I don't like the 'no aggressive action in Havens' addendum, NOR should WRESTing a 'leader' bring all the parties back. There've been plenty of times I've RP'd in other people's havens in a group of 3+ and the person who brought us there leaves or goes elsewhere and we continue RPing in the place.

    If John, Jack and Jim all go to John's Haven to RP and John has to AFK for a bit, and someone WRESTs John, then that's unfair to interrupt Jack and Jim's RP to bring them back to.

    WREST should only work on the person you are WRESTing. Not them and everyone in their entourage.
    image
  • IllidanIllidan Pray AreaMember Posts: 962 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm not sure how I feel about the change as a whole yet, but I've seen some reasonably valid points made. I usually sit in my haven if I don't wanna be bothered by other players, but still chat it up over clans, webs or other such things. All this basically means to me is that I have to buy a house so I can have somewhere where people couldn't get to my shell. On the other hand, I'm not sure I see the purpose of a shell as it was previously stated that most people haven inside of a city anyhow. Unless someone pulls a Lait level of org trolling, I'm sure your body is going to be safe inside of a city anyhow. It'd take some major effort and numbers if you really wanted to strongarm your way into killing someone inside of a city in the first place.
                                    
                 Faaaaaaaaaaabulous!                                          Adorable!                                                               UHMAYZING!

    Calipso has been slain by the divine might of Razmael, the Synthesist.

    Illidan said: You already knew that there's some dumb-as-unicorns attention mongering wanna-be troll going around and robbing people.
    Calipso said: For the first time on the forums, Im actually 100% in agreement with Illidan.
  • KelliaraKelliara Member Posts: 469 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 9
    Illidan said:

    I'm not sure how I feel about the change as a whole yet, but I've seen some reasonably valid points made. I usually sit in my haven if I don't wanna be bothered by other players, but still chat it up over clans, webs or other such things. All this basically means to me is that I have to buy a house so I can have somewhere where people couldn't get to my shell. On the other hand, I'm not sure I see the purpose of a shell as it was previously stated that most people haven inside of a city anyhow. Unless someone pulls a Lait level of org trolling, I'm sure your body is going to be safe inside of a city anyhow. It'd take some major effort and numbers if you really wanted to strongarm your way into killing someone inside of a city in the first place.

    You're totally right that most people go to their haven inside a city, but remember that wresting someone isn't the only change made, and the not only thing a shell does.

    It also lets people know that "Hey, Kelli is about at the moment, even if she's not down on Sapience," and allows me (using myself as example) to keep track of conversations happening in the location my shell is chilling out in, and for people to get my attention if need be.

    Sure, tells exist, but is having another way to get a conversation going really a bad thing?
    Now with 253% more Madness.
    Chibi-Kelli by @Eleanor.
  • TeaniTeani Evening Sky SwedenMember Posts: 1,854 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 9
    Seeing as the haven is something constructed by your mind, though you can bring people and show them around in a very magical way, it actually makes perfect sense to bring -everyone- out of a person's haven if they are being WRESTed. Think of it as them losing their link to the haven. They won't be able to project/share it with others if their minds don't have that link. Do -you- want to walk around with people doing who-knows-what inside your mind while you're distracted by others?

    As was states, you all see that goes on around the Shell of your character, while your mind is socializing with others inside your little world. That way the people who are friendly, allies, citymates, guildmates, can go find your shell, gently poke you and ask if you're aware. If you don't want to drift away from whatever it is you're doing in the haven, you don't. The person wanting your attention will be left with the choice of leaving you alone or aggressively wresting you from it. In the latter case, I'm assuming there will be consequences. If the former, well, they tried, they failed, you're still lost in thought.

    I'm sure Admin will watch this carefully to make sure that there won't be any harassing of people, simply by spamming them, much like it is generally frowned upon to skip-hop in and out of an area just to spam mindnets and such things.

    If you want a safe place from which to enter your haven, get a house. As someone suggested, request a place within the city in which people can silently meditate in peace (return to their haven without people coming to bother their shells).



    Emelle
  • RhoynnRhoynn HartfordMember Posts: 65 ✭✭✭
    edited January 9
    @Teani I suppose I see your reasoning for a group wrest. While I don't like it, it does make sense, and I suppose it tracks even better with how I view Havens/Haven RP etc. Re: the point about a 'safe room' in a city.

    I feel like, if a city did this, inherently, it defeats the purpose of these Haven changes. I think @Rhyot and @Fezzix have the right idea. If you're going to log on, Idle/AFK with absolutely no inclination of involving yourself in the RP, either buy a Castle/House/Whatever yourself so you can truly be isolated, and turn off channels and such, or just log off? At that point, honestly, if you're idling all alone in a Haven and playing LoL in another window, are you even really playing Aetolia?

    If a city makes a 'safe' room for people to Haven to, this defeats the purpose of making Havens less of a complete 'hideaway from everything all the time' mechanism. If you know you're going to go to your Haven to, say, RP with a few people, def up, test out some skills, or don't want to be on-plane and botherable while you're designing/crafting/writing/whathaveyou, then this is a perfectly fine mechanic. Go to your guildhall or an isolated part of your city, Haven from there, and still be accessible to the degree you want.

    IMHO- if someone, after these changes, goes to their Haven EVEN in a really public spot, and I check and they've got TELLSOFF, CTOFF, GTOFF, etc, clearly they don't want to be bothered. At that point, I'm either going to assume they're AFK doing some private RP or writing/designing/etc, or they honestly should've just logged off.

    TLDR: You make a good point about WRESTing groups. The 'safe place' idea basically undermines the whole point of these changes

    EDIT: One last thing. I paid for that "HideRoom" thing for my Haven, given the rp behind how Rhoynn gets there, so when he's there, I don't show up on WHO. I haven't tested this yet, but can anyone confirm if that remains the same? The 'shell' thing actually makes perfect sense given how I 'go' to my Haven, but I want to ensure this doesn't nullify even more haven upgrades, before I go dumping stuff into my haven
    image
  • TozToz Member Posts: 2,153 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hi so re: afk, my girlfriend has severe anxiety. Often when I go afk, it is because she sent me a message on Skype. She might need me for 10 seconds, it might be 3 hours. I don't know until 10 minutes after I'm gone if I'll be able to make it back to participate in whatever, but I can at least partially participate in things from my haven -- I'm not gonna hop into a scene with someone. Similarly, at work, I have talked combat shop with people or helped them with coding while going afk for 5-10 in between. Plenty of reason to be afk and still on Aetolia.
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "I'll still never forget the first time I saw Toz throwing hammers."
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "I freaked out and thought they had somehow managed to pull me into them."
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "So I tumbled away from my team and into theirs."


  • AelliaAellia Member Posts: 4
    Ya know. I can see the benefit for buttheads being wrested to deliver some much deserved bitchslapping. However, I wonder if we will really see a benefit on the RP side of it.
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